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Shipping rates hit zero - meaning? Go get shopping now for goods needed

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posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 06:47 AM
On the news it was stated that , china,s imports are down. If ships are lying idle that means goods are not going to where they are sent and also not returning with supplies ,so obviously something is wrong.
Is this the actual visible proof of the recession, because this knock on effect is going to grow into serious proportions if its not checked in time, and this WILL be a time to stock up.
We also have to determine for ourselves, is what we are being told by our governments more serious than we think or they are letting on, ATS????

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 06:57 AM

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by questioningall
This is serious, think about all the foods you buy that are not made here.

Foods like what? Ramen Noodle? Processed garbage? Tainted baby formula?

All the delicious, nutritious food we need is grown and raised right here in the USA.

This could be a great thing for this country... we buy American, support our country's economy, and eat healthy.

Don't forget about the reduction of your carbon footprint, that will keep gore happy.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 07:22 AM
link to article:

read about what wall street traders are doing.....hint......

stocking up.

Preparations, in Lange’s case, include a storeroom in his basement in New Jersey stacked high with enough food, water, diapers, and other necessities to last his family six months; a biometric safe to hold his guns; and a 1985 ex-military Chevy K5 Blazer that runs on diesel and is currently being retrofitted for off-road travel. He has also entertained the idea of putting an inflatable speedboat in a storage unit on the West Side, so he could get off the island quickly, and is currently considering purchasing a remote farm where he could hunker down. “If there’s a financial-system breakdown, it could take a year to reset the system, and in that time, what’s going to happen?” asks Lange. If New York turns into a scene out of I Am Legend, he wants to be ready.

He’s not the only one. In his book Wealth, War, published last year, former Morgan Stanley chief global strategist Barton Biggs advised people to prepare for the possibility of a total breakdown of civil society. A senior analyst whose reports are read at hedge funds all over the city wrote just before Christmas that some of his clients are “so bearish they’ve purchased firearms and safes and are stocking their pantries with soups and canned foods.” This fear is very much reflected in the market—prices of corporate bonds have been so beaten down at various points that they suggest a higher default rate than during the Great Depression. Meanwhile, while the overall gold market has fluctuated, the premium for quarter-ounce gold coins—meaning the difference between the price for gold you can hold in your hand and that for “paper gold,” such as exchange-traded funds—rose to an all-time high of 20 percent. “Gold is transportable, it’s 100 percent liquid, and it’s perfectly divisible in the context of ounces, bars, or coins,” says the head of a California research firm who keeps a supply of it, along with food, water, and guns, on hand. “And most important, there’s no counterparty”—i.e., it’s an investment beholden to no one, and perhaps one of the few assets that will retain value if the financial system collapses.

While it may look like these Wall Streeters are betting on such a collapse, their embrace of survivalism is an outgrowth of their professional habits of mind: Having observed the economy’s shaky high-wire act from their ringside seats, they are trying to manage their risk and “hedge” against a potential fall. “It’s like insurance,” says an investor who has stockpiled MREs and a hand-cranked radio. “And by the time you need it, it’s way too late.” Leave it for others to weep for the collapse of the social order. These guys would prefer to be in a high-speed boat or ex-military vehicle, heading off toward their fully provisioned compounds in pursuit of the ultimate goal: to win the chaos.

Here is information about foods made in China: (from a Canadian's view)

"Made in Canada" simply means that 51 per cent of the production cost was incurred in Canada; the ingredients could come from anywhere, and increasingly they come from China. For example, manufacturers can import apple juice concentrate from China - for about one-fifth the cost of Canadian concentrate - add water to it in Canada, and mark it "Made in Canada."

"We eat food from China every day, we just don't know about it," says Dr. Keith Warriner, an assistant professor of food science at the University of Guelph. Canadians ate $430-million worth of food from China last year, and as China's economic power grows so does its reach into our supermarkets, our kitchens - even our churches. Canada imported $9.5-million worth of communion wafers from China last year, along with $113-million worth of frozen fish fillets and $28-million worth of apple juice.

But even I (a consummate label-reader) was SHOCKED to learn just recently (through the poison-pet-food revelations) that wheat-gluten (from Canadian wheat?) was MADE in China. How could that be? How is it that we in Canada - the supposedly largest wheat growing nation in the world - have anything to do with wheat from CHINA (or any other food for that matter)?

surprising - look at what happens with our food....I had posted earlier about it being cheaper to process foods in China that were grown here, for a finished product. Look at what else is processed....

below from link:

Last year, under high-level pressure from China, the USDA passed a rule allowing China to export to the United States chickens that were grown and slaughtered in North America and then processed in China -- a rule that quickly passed through multiple levels of review and was approved the day before Chinese President Hu Jintao arrived in Washington last April.

"So many U.S. companies are directly or indirectly involved in China now, the commercial interest of the United States these days has become to allow imports to come in as quickly and smoothly as possible," said Robert B. Cassidy, a former assistant U.S. trade representative for China and now director of international trade and services for Kelley Drye Collier Shannon, a Washington law firm.

It is not just that food from China is cheap, said William Hubbard, a former associate director of the FDA. For a growing number of important food products, China has become virtually the only source in the world.

China controls 80 percent of the world's production of ascorbic acid, for example, a valuable preservative that is ubiquitous in processed and other foods. Only one producer remains in the United States, Hubbard said.

So if you don't believe that a huge amount of our food is processed in China still, then you will may be caught hunger in the future.

Stocking up is smart -

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 07:27 AM
Hallo everyone,

I am writing this from eastern european country named Croatia.

First to explain, Croatia has the largest port and the most important for nautical transport of goods in whole eastern Europe. The name od the port is Rijeka situated in Croatia.

Since Croatia was involved in Yugoslavian war the port lost its significance in this region during that times. However, last year the port had the largest export - import amount of goods since the Yugoslavian war (1990).

While I was reading this thread, at the same time started a report on Croatian national TV that states that the port is in big troubles, that the lack of trade in European countries endangered the positive revenue achieved the last year. Moreover, the director of the port states that the amount of goods transported in and out of the port has declined for a 50% in the last 2 months.

Another thing to add that Croatia has some of the best nautical transporting companies in the world and those companies operate around the globe.

Since I work in a financial institution and due to my job I had direct contacts with those companies.

They had the best "balance sheets" and income of most companies in Croatia. Probably among top ten.

However, their income has declined like never before (not counting the war conditions).

I thought this is related to your topic and hope this helps to understand that this is just the beginning of the crisis, hard times will come for all western oriented countries.

Have a nice day!

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 07:55 AM

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by questioningall
This is serious, think about all the foods you buy that are not made here.

Foods like what? Ramen Noodle? Processed garbage? Tainted baby formula?

All the delicious, nutritious food we need is grown and raised right here in the USA.

This could be a great thing for this country... we buy American, support our country's economy, and eat healthy.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by craig732]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by craig732]

Hey buddy...I like Ramen Noodles!

But like someone said. Maybe the US should make lemonade out of these lemons. Start processing and making more things here. It could create jobs and make it so you wouldn't have to worry about bad Chinese wheat gluten or other tainted crap. Kill two birds with one stone.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 08:23 AM
Wow, so many so uninformed. The US does not supply as much food to the world as we were once taught in school, in fact, we import more food today than ever before.

From a USDA Special Report

Among U.S. food imports, the fastest growing as a
percentage of U.S. food consumption include red
meats, fish, and shellfish. Also, imports of vegetables
such as bell and chili peppers, tomatoes, potatoes,
asparagus, onions, and olives have risen significantly
since 1980. Further, the import shares of fruits and
grain cereals jumped dramatically as U.S. tastes shifted.

Although U.S. per capita consumption of red meat
dropped from an average 175 pounds per year in the
early 1980s to 163 pounds in 2000, the import share of
pork rose from 3 to 5 percent, while the share for lamb
meat more than tripled between those years. Fish and
shellfish import share reached 68 percent in 2000, up
from 45 percent in 1980. Even beef's import share rose
from 8 to 11 percent in that time span.

The import share of fruits also more than tripled from
6 percent in 1980 to 22 percent in 2000. Among the
fastest growing are avocados, mangos, melons, grapes,
and pears. For fruit juices–mainly orange, apple, and
grape–overall import share rose from 12 to 32 percent
in the past two decades. Among tree nuts, of which 39
percent were imported in 2000 versus only 26 percent
in 1980, the import share of pecans shot up from 1.5
percent to 37 percent.

Equally dramatic growth in import share of vegetables
occurred since 1980. For fresh and frozen vegetables
as a group, the share went up from 6 percent to 14 percent
in 2000. Potatoes' import share reached 14 percent
in 2000, up from only 1 percent in 1980.
Asparagus' share grew more than fivefold from 11 percent
to 59 percent. For olives (processed), the respective
shares are 21 to 75 percent. And for artichokes
and spices, the corresponding estimates more than

From less than 1 percent import share in 1980, wheat
and rice expanded significantly to 9 and 10 percent,
respectively, in 2000. Also, the import share of confectionery
products quadrupled, as did malt beverages.

Please see that link and especially the last page that totals the percentage of the individual types of imported foods.

From the OP link

Outbound traffic from Long Beach and Los Angeles, America's two top ports, has fallen by 18pc year-on-year, a far more serious decline than anything seen in recent recessions.

"This is no regular cycle slowdown, but a complete collapse in foreign demand," said Lindsay Coburn, ING's trade consultant.

This means other countries are not buying what we do produce!

Also from the OP link

He said it was "illogical" for shippers to offer zero rates, but they do whatever they can to survive in a highly cyclical market.

Offering slots for free is akin to an airline giving away spare seats for nothing in the hope of making something from meals and fees.

People are in business to make money, not lose. RIGHT NOW it SHOULD cost so much to ship the products that no profit would be made, if the shippers were not cutting prices so low as to take a loss. That is not going to last forever.

LowLevelMason may think that this is nonsense, and I truly hope he's right, but reality says, we are in a world-wide recession that is getting worse, not better and many companies, and many foods we are so used to enjoying are going to become scare, or extremely expensive, or both.

As imports decline, and container ship entry declines, so will the demand for truckers to haul the product, more jobs lost.

Less foreign products in stores = less manpower needed to stock shelves = more jobs lost.

LowLevelMason says that cheap shipping costs is a good thing, well then why are so many people losing so many jobs? Think it's not happening? Check Layoff Daily and see how wrong you are.

Stocking up is prudent. Having enough savings in the bank to cover 3 months of bills is prudent, but most Americans do neither. It will be to their own demise.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 09:11 AM

Originally posted by questioningall
reply to post by LowLevelMason

That thread you provided is correct and it was based on the Baltic Dry Index, and there were many links to provide that information and confirm it. That index is provided on raw materials, now the information in this thread is provided on the finished goods.

Hey - it is up to everyone individually to read what they will and come to their own conclusions.

I find it amazing that you are doubting the info. - it has not come from me, but from valid and real sources.

So - don't go out and stock up - that is your decision, but I think others will find the thread informative that finished goods shipments have now gone over the cliff.

I dont think anyone has a problem with the info you provide in your threads or the links you provide. I believe what people here have a problem with is the way you go about presenting this info. You threads titles always seem to to show iminent doom and gloom.

I have no problem with people here providing information that could be helpful. But to drum them up in your thead titles to show that the Sh*t is about to hit the fan is a little to doomy and gloomy for me.

No offence meant but you tend to come off a little chicken littleish here. Your always saying that the sky is falling in one way or another. Feel free to offer information that you believe people should know, but dont drum it up with apocolyptic thread titles.

Edited for spelling

[edit on 1/15/0909 by Trayen11]

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 09:29 AM
reply to post by LowLevelMason

The situation had to build to this point, with Obama it is here.

The total collapse of America and Mexico will folllow. The North American Union will be formed out of this pre-planned disaster.

The elite and greedy men who created this disaster will try to pose as saviors.

You have one month before the food on the shelves begins to disappear.

If you have kids, value their health and safety, buy some canned food, dried food and even a water purifier.

Its not to late to prepare for what is coming. If you have guns, buy some rounds. You may need them. If neighbors are out of work, losing their house and the cabinets are bare of food, your garbage will be where they will look to see who is eating and who has food.

Hide large packages of waste from purchases and keep them out of sight, its a good indication yous till have money and supplies, it will make you a target.

Better get prepared.

Remember the 7 P's:
Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 09:40 AM
Hey maybe its something else...


Well you never know

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 10:01 AM

30 tankers just anchored up offshore doing nothing.

anchored off a US port means they are full of oil.
demand must be way down.

If they were empty they would have went to a port where the fees were lower.

Yes it cost money to anchor a big tanker in a US port.

If the have that much oil waiting for the refineries the price should drop more.

Unless they are holding it on the ships to create a supply shortage.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 10:19 AM
reply to post by Trayen11

I have my titles, for people to actually pay attention.

The point that it seems impossible for people in the U.S. to believe - we will not have access to everything we want - when we want it ...forever.

When I feel something is very important - I strongly try to get the point across....that is my it bad or good.

Stressing people need to prepare for what is coming down the line - is my point.

The data shows my point, the articles I have included also show how much we get from other countries.

BTW: when I went down to New Orleans for the holidays ....... about a 600 mile trip. Guess what? I only encountered about 60 - 18 wheelers on my way back - the whole 600 miles. I don't count going there, as I encountered only half that many, due to the fact that it was in the midst of the holidays. But coming back was on the 5th of Jan, trucking should have gotten back in full force by then.

Also in New Orleans - which is suppose to be one of the busiest ports in the U.S., there was only ONE ship in.

So, figure out - what that means in the way of trucking etc. I kept my eye out the whole time during the trip.

So, yes I am stressing the points I feel are important. I would like people to have food and needs taken care of, but it is everyone's own choice to do that or not.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 10:40 AM
If anyone wants to get a firm grip on the health or non health of the shipping industry you need to look to the Greek shipping heads. They are and have been the leaders in the shipping industry for DECADES on end. They to have been sounding the bells of this and that it was going to eventually spread to the finished goods industry.
Due to the FACT that the raw goods shipping was by far holding up the boom in the economy for years. Many countries had jumped on the housing band wagon and where importing and exporting ship after ship of raw goods for construction. When the housing crisis hit the shipping for the raw materials hit a brick wall (96% drop) The Greeks had told EVERYONE to get ready for the floating islands once AGAIN. (The ships anchored off shore in groups are called floating islands.)
This was during the beginning of last fall. I have been following this for sometime at the request of some good friends in the banking industry and been making sure we had enough things to get us through a MAJOR "slow down" in the product distribution chain. I can understand the feelings of many as far as these news articles go. BUT it is the trickle down effect that is now affecting the smaller "shipping" economies of other countries worldwide.
This situation has actually been dragging out for months on end and is just now coming into public view because the shippers are loosing so much money. Many are at risk of going out of business for the inability to ship at cut throat prices. BUT the companies that have been in business for decades have prepared for this and are ready to help pick up the slack.
It may take a little longer to get things from point A to point B, but those that have been doing it for decades have planned out ways to help keep things going if only at a MUCH slower pace. The main companies have backed up enough capital to help when the crisis hits.( It started in "Summer 2008")
They are going to be working below the normal board of pay. But in the end they will reap the rewards as being the only ones to survive. THIS has happened before and millions DID NOT DIE OF STARVATION! (Kind of like the major banks that are hording monies to get them through the many crashes coming in more than JUST the USA.)
I know this seems long and drawn out but I am trying to get you guys to look at the WHOLE picture. Not just one aspect of it. You can't just look at shipping and say OMG its all going to heck in a basket. It IS the whole system,one part relies on the other and when one falls (housing banking etc. ) the others feel the pain as it is in reality a NETWORK.
The network has some kinks to work out once AGAIN, this is nothing new and not some reason to run for the hills. YES things may get a little "uncomfortable" for a bit, as many are not used to not having what they want when they want it.( New generations anyone???) But as history has shown us this happens about every 50 years +/-. It is a way for our economies to balance out the mistakes made in past years and find ways to keep them from happening again.
This isn't the first time this has come about and I am positive it wont be the last, but we need to ALL remain CALM and use our heads. If we want the "whole" picture we must LOOK at the whole picture and not just one aspect of it. Nothing else other than this one point will help us to understand how this works. How its going to be fixed. How we are going to once AGAIN survive it.

I have studied this for years and will be glad to give some pointers as to what to look at if you guys want me too. ( If its okay with Questiongal that is, this is her post after all
( yeah yeah I am a numbers geek and my moms bf has a masters in accounting among others and has taught me all because I cant go to college full time. I have three teens who need a proper bringing up.)

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 11:00 AM
reply to post by questioningall

Don't listen to Freemasons.They take care of themselves,think insider dealings.(I grew up surrounded by masons including my own family and saw and heard much I was not supposed to.)This explains their lack of empathy for the rest of us struggling without a huge support base.We must act on our own wits.And your warnings are not over the top,you obviously see apathy all around us and are trying to wake up some.Look at the recent peanut butter scare,anyone who stockpiled the food product(name brand peanut butter cracker thingies)would not have been poisoned,but would have had a period of warning and could return the bad stuff to the store from off the shelves of their storeroom.Same with the pet food.Plus bulk is cheaper.Repackaging weekly portions in vacu-seal bags is kinda fun.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 11:35 AM
reply to post by questioningall

I like your threads and in this day and age I am always on my toes.
I trust that I will get more truth here then from the msm and think if something big happened then chances are I would find it here first.
I don't mind the sensational thread titles.We are living in a weird time in my opinion and since I am always looking for it to come down anytime,I will be attracted to these threads.
Forget all the negative comments and keep it up.
I loved the earthquake thread and thought they were thoughtful and not about the sky is falling.
It was about being aware and theres NOTHING wrong with that.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 12:12 PM
Even though I am not driving right now, I still keep up with what's happening through friends who are driving. Shipping is down... way, way, way down.

Truckers from all over are just sitting, or have retired or switched careers due to not being able to make a living. Truck stops that used to be impossible to get in are now available for parking most times, and the ones that had parking before are now almost empty. No more weeks of 4000-5000 miles; now you are lucky to make 1500-2000 most of the time.

The problem is that no one is buying anymore. people are putting off purchases, especially the high-dollar purchases that translate to dozens of different loads: cars for instance. With credit tightening and people having less disposable income and more worry about the future of their income, less crs are being sold. That means less trips to and from the parts manufacturers, which means less trips to bring in raw materials, etc. But it's a viscious spiral. Since plants are working less,m that means less people are needed to work them, and some workers get laid off. That's even more people who can't afford to buy goods and services, which leads to more layoffs, which leads to less consumerism, which leads to more layoffs...

And amid all of this are the truckers who are trying desperately to survive. As companies have less freight to move, the better drivers tend to move on to companies who have freight, so it's in the companies best interests to keep their better drivers rolling. That means bitter competition for the freight out there, and that means lower rates. The companies who are not financially stable and efficient will be closing soon (many already have gone away).

But lower rates do NOT mean zero-cost shipping. No one is going to continue hauling freight for very long if it's costing them money. It just can't happen.

Also, the lack of freight means a lack of need for trucks. That's in itself a blow to the very industry that uses these trucks, since several trucking companies use the manufacturers of trucks themselves as a bread-and-butter account.

It's an omen, for sure. If you want to see what will happen to the rest of the economy in the next 3-6 months, ask a trucker how his miles are running. And the forecast from where I sit as an ex-trucker with a lot of highway hero friends left, is bleak indeed.


posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 01:36 PM
This drop in shipping is likely related to the still impending, doomsday Earth quake.
Eh Questioningall, eh?

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 01:48 PM
heya questioningall nice to see you fear mongering food shortages instead of earthquakes

anyway i have a family member who works for a large international shipping company and i recently talked with her about this very thing and she said that imports have actually gone up in the recent months. so needless to say i would rather believe her then this baloney fear mongering of yours

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Dewm0nster
This drop in shipping is likely related to the still impending, doomsday Earth quake.
Eh Questioningall, eh?

LOL, very funny,

Guess what? The shipping is due to our economy - incase you haven't been aware of what has been going on.

About the earthquakes?

Well.......... I am very involved with postings on the "Yellowstone" thread and have been keeping up with precursors of things.

But....funny thing about it all.....I believe some big things may still happen, though timings can be off.

So when you take the two of those things above together..shipments/earthquakes....well....makes sense to just prepare for anything for survival.

My mom came for Christmas, she saw my storage room - and thought she had walked into a grocery store...

so now you know where I am on preparing for anything.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 02:01 PM
reply to post by N. Tesla

I am laughing so hard at your post, it is difficult for me to do this post.

I think it is hilarious you posted that shipping has gone up. LOL

WOW, considering that is totally against everything that is written in business and shipping internet sites and what people have seen themselves of ships sitting idle and no ships in normally busy ports!

I am still laughing........ the only thing else I can say to you is.......UH OK - you just keep living in that wonderful world of yours, where nothing is wrong and there are no problems everywhere else.

But I will also say, in the post you wrote is going to be much harder for me and possibly others to take them seriously...since they are contrary to every other information out there, regarding the subject, so it seems completely false. I have also provided many links to news sources to back up my thread - so my thread speaks the truth and is not false.

posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 02:03 PM
reply to post by trueforger

Really? .. I always thought it was not to listen to bigots or fools?

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