America West Airlines Flight 564 UFO Case , page 2

reply to post by C0bzz

---

C0bzz...I stand (sit) corrected....although the A-340 with the forward-looking camera was a gimmik, I think. More of the idea that the passengers could see that view, interspersed with the usual navigation display of location, altitude, temperature, and time to destination, etc.

As to the B-777-300 and other stretched models, then it comports quite well with my notion of the A-380. It has become harder for the pilot taxiing to have a real grasp of where all of his main gear are, as airplanes have grown so large.

Since I've flown the B-767-400, I think I have a certain understanding of the challenge. One can look at the taxiway, and any turns involved, and anticipate. One also has to have a sense of where the nosewheel is, since it is several feet behind you, and know the limits of the nosewheel steering angle, to ensure that all the tires stay on the paved surfaces.

It's not difficult, if you think ahead, stay aware of your speed and thrust requirements...but, as you pointed out, say in the B767-300 a QUICK glance at a camera view of the Mains can help in a tight turn. This, because not ALL airports around the World are built to the same standards.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

---

Tesla....huh???

Are you attempting to imply that an otherwise 'stealth' airplane would give itself away, at night, becouse of 'St. Elmo's Fire' collecting on the gear doors???

Dontcha think they've thought of THAT already???

Anyways.....What the America West crew observed was most certainly NOT a secret military experiment, IMO. I mean, think about it....a Military so capable would let its top-secret experimental craft close enough to a civilian airliner, on a Airway, to be plainly seen???

Unless you wish to think the Military has a sense of humor, and I doubt that VERY much.......

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

---

Second reply to Tesla, re: your second sentence "Flight directors or vectors"

Errrrr.....to a pilot, at least an Airline Pilot, a 'Flight Director' has a certain meaning. It is an Instrument, something to assist a pilot during IFR (instrument only) flight. A 'vector' is simply a heading assigned by an air traffic controller. THEY call it a vector, since they think of it as a track over the ground. They can impute, in their heads, the known winds and assign a heading to accomplish what they wish, which is to maintain certain separation standards between airplanes.

SO, from the ATC viewpoint, a 'vector' is to determine a certain track over the ground. Of course, with modern GPS capabilities, airplanes can very, very accurately fly determined tracks over the ground, but as yet the airplanes don't talk to each other enough (except for TCAS) to allow for the spacing and routing decisions to be made, especially in the Terminal areas.

Also, the airspace IS three-dimensional....a concept that is often lost on people who spend their lives stuck in traffic on the FreeWay.

ATC know that we now have, as I mentioned, TCAS onboard....that is an acronym for 'Traffic Collision Avoidance System'....but, it only works IF the other airplane has a compliant transponder, so that they 'talk' to each other.

In the case of 'cactus' 564, what they saw was not anything that is normaly seen...AND, it was well before the wide-spread implementation of TCAS anyway....I just threw that in for an update to what we have today.

The other thing to remember is, then, and now, upper-level radar accuracy is not nearly as precise as lower-level...in layman's terms, think of a flashlight (or torch, if you're British). Turn on the flashlight, and put your hand 12 inches away. Look at how wide the beam is. THEN, shine the 'torch' at a wall 12 feet away. Notice the width of the beam then.

THIS is the nature of light, unless it's lasered....but I guarantee that RADAR is simply a spectrum of the EM range, (not laser) that suffers a similar dispersion as visible light.

So, essentially, RADAR is most effective, and most accurate, at the closest ranges.

Of course, in Military applications, RADAR can be more precise, but those things are left to the Military, since they are secret.

I have been able to use my airplane's weather radar to 'paint' another airplane, but only for a few minutes, since airliner's radar is designed to look for water concentrations....and, it can 'paint' land, when you are out over the ocean...

Of course, in the case of AW (cactus) 564, if the thing they saw was at 3 o'clock, well....the radar antenna is in the nose, and only sweeps about 15 degrees per side...depending on the brand. MAX would be about 18 degrees, for a total of 36....and THAT'S pushing it!

So, this incident relies on the tapes, as saved from ATC, and eyewitness accounts. ANY RADAR contacts from Military sources are sure to be buried deep, so deep a FOIA request may never reach them.....

reply to post by Lee_K

---

Lee_K....yes, you've hit upon a certain point of, not only nostalgia, and an era more innocent...in some ways.

...AND, a little more ... sorry, I get a phone call in the middle of writing a sentence, and thoughts fly out the window!

There was a time, in decades past, when, as a professional, reporting strange sightings would be met with ridicule, and could possibly affect your livelihood. I'm hoping that times are changing. Look at this America West event, for example....it happened more than ten years ago! These guys, everyone involved, were very brave to risk their reputations by coming forward.

When there is a strange 'encounter' observed by only Military individuals, then they must balance their sense of duty and oath of office, and 'secrecy' pledges that they have taken...civilians are, of course, not bound by those oaths. SO...ridicule and embarassment tactics (or worse) are better techniques to shut THEM up.

Well, it's time to step up to the plate and stand the ground...not wishing to sound paranoid, but this is real-world. AND humans have an innate capacity for lying, when needed.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

---

Tesla.....are you insane????

Serious question, so please try to answer. Honestly, I'd like to know. Most of your responses would seem to be quite off-context, so IF you can respond in a knowledgable way, it will be fun to see!!!

Or, Tesla....just write something that is barely intelligable.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

---

Tesla.....are you insane????

Serious question, so please try to answer. Honestly, I'd like to know. Most of your responses would seem to be quite off-context, so IF you can respond in a knowledgable way, it will be fun to see!!!

Or, Tesla....just write something that is barely intelligable.

I think you are insane.
Why else bother to find out ideas you are not researched into.
ED: What is you problem with the posted image?
Duh, it a UFO.
ED: weedwhacker, I'm cleaning out the Myats links so u2u me if
you have any pressing ideas.

[edit on 1/15/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 1/15/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

---

Tesla...you wish to quote Newton, regarding a 'craft', once I saw that, I realized you (A) know nothing about Newton and, (B), seem to believe in things that surpass normal understanding of physics.

So, TeslaandLyne, please! Regale your audience with your exquisite knowledge.

Really.....we await your incredible technological enhancements....PLEASE, oh PLEASE give them to us!!!!!

Wait!!! Oh, I hear soimething.......shhhhhhh......

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

---

Tesla...you wish to quote Newton, regarding a 'craft', once I saw that, I realized you (A) know nothing about Newton and, (B), seem to believe in things that surpass normal understanding of physics.

So, TeslaandLyne, please! Regale your audience with your exquisite knowledge.

Really.....we await your incredible technological enhancements....PLEASE, oh PLEASE give them to us!!!!!

Wait!!! Oh, I hear soimething.......shhhhhhh......

You are correct on both counts.
That's what I meant about the research I did for about two years.
I don't want to waste your time on something not interesting to you.
I can tell.

Newton isn't all there is.
But this is Newton:
"Once a body is set in motion, it remains in motion."
This is Newton and taught in first semester college physics
and is most likely being tried in high schools.
You think otherwise.
That is the Newton problem I was considering.

You are not in the mind set to consider the UFO as valid
so I don't think anything I heard about UFOs are of interest
to you.

I was just considering if what Newton said is true for the UFO.
One pulse and its off.

reply to post by TheWorldReallyIsThatBorin

---

Spot on!!!

You obviously know a little about flying, based on your post.

I've said it already, I think it was brave for those pilots to come forth...well, maybe since it was already on the ATC tapes...anyway, coming out in public is brave.

reply to post by TheWorldReallyIsThatBorin

---

From you post:

But the thing that bothers me with most attempts at debunking is the patronising attitude. Do some of these armchair debunkers really think that professional pilots with decades of experience don't know what Venus, Betelgeuse, a setting sun, leniticular clouds or a flock of geese look like!

The people in charge of these devices have never cared about the
normal course of things.

They are in the above the law category and are thought to be associated
with the people Truman let in this country in 1945.



[edit on 1/16/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

---

Well.....I think normal and intelligent people can NOW see you for what you are, 'TeslaandLyne'....

I won't call you insane...."delusional" ...is SUCH a better word.

Of course, I have NO OPINION as to anyone's aparrent mental state here, at ATS....no, none whatsover......................

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

---

Well.....I think normal and intelligent people can NOW see you for what you are, 'TeslaandLyne'....

I won't call you insane...."delusional" ...is SUCH a better word.

Of course, I have NO OPINION as to anyone's aparrent mental state here, at ATS....no, none whatsover......................

Well then why point it out on anyone.
Especially in my direction.

Now for the so called delusion:
My delving into specialized so called non sense has its drawbacks.
I am aware. Especially if the understanding we seek fails observations.

I find many unbelievable things in the world of Tesla that are the
reverse of our Illuminati up bringing.
Some of us consider that we are taught just so much.

Tesla thought the electron was larger than the so called tiny
electron measured for us so many years ago.
Unfortunately I can't ask him how the electron mass
measurement fits in with his statements, but he made the
statement.

The man invented radio, so why not listen to what he said.


[edit on 1/16/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

Aliens Among Us ...Video
  Posted 8 days ago with 65 member flags

Moon: inexplicable phenomena. Luna Cognita video.
  Posted 17 days ago with 60 member flags

UFOs \'Escort\' Mexican Aircraft - Radar Confirmed.
  Posted 11 days ago with 31 member flags

The Dyatlov Pass Incident--Russia\'s Mountain of Death
  Posted 18 days ago with 28 member flags

The Edge of Reality - Updated Report on the Illinois Police UFO case, January 5th, 2000.
  Posted 5 days ago with 27 member flags

The Aurora, Texas UFO Incident (1897)
  Posted 2 days ago with 27 member flags

Famous Argentinean painter observed UFO studying parabolic antennas
  Posted 19 days ago with 21 member flags

1/28/2012 craft in sky From Puerto Rico - Need help getting more info!!
  Posted 6 days ago with 21 member flags

Newest topics, updated in real-time:

Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time: