America West Airlines Flight 564 UFO Case

This is a very intriguing case that I wanted to bring back into the spotlight. Due to the occupation and evidence on hand, it is considered one of the best documented cases in history. The incident occured on the night of the 25th of May, 1995, where an America West Boeing 757 aircraft eno#ered a strange object with flashing lights was observed below the the plane, near Bovina, Texas.

The B-757, flown by Captan Eugene Tollefson and First Officer John J Waller, was on a routine flight from Tampa and was approaching its final leg of the journey to Las Vegas, via Dallas, when a flight attendant observed a row of flshing lights, to the north and below the aircraft. These flights were then oberved by First Officer Waller and Tollefson left his seat to also take a look, noticing the object was illuminating nearby thunderstorm clouds. Flying at 39,000ft, the Waller and Tollefson estimated the object was sitting at about 30,000ft, was cigar shaped, had bright white, orange and blue tinged flashing lights which travelled in sequnce from left to right and was estimated to be between 300 and 500 feet in length.

Captains drawing below (apologies, my photbucket isnt working)

www.ufoevidence.org...

After observing the object for approximately 5 minutes, Tollefson contacted Albuquerque ATC, who stated that the position of the craft, was over a restricted military area called "Tieband". ATC replied to Tollefson that it may be thethered aerostat, but after calling relevant sites that used aerostats, that theory was found to be unlikely. (I will post a full transcript of the conversation after this first post as it will not fit.) Other aircraft in the area were also contacted but none were able to see anything out of the ordinary.

The controller then contacted NORAD, who said that they had nothing on their radar that wasnt supposed to be there. However they did contact Albuquerque back, reporting that they had an unidentified return on their radar. This was soon determined to be a light aircraft with a malfunctioning transponder. There is also an unconfirmed report that ATC'ers were told by NORAD that they had found something, that was stationary, then accelerated very fast and stopped again very quikcly.

The next day, the controller made another check with NORAD, and he was told that they had indeed tracked another unknown target the night before that was at first stationary, but then accelerated and stopped again very rapidly. These quick darts were estimated at somewhere between 1,000 and 1,400 mph.

So what did they experience on that night?

Thoughts, and other evidence is appreciated.

Here's the conversation between ATC and Captain Tollerfson, Cactus 564 being the B-757's call sign.

9:21pm...
AW-564: "Cactus 564 going direct crow, crow 6 arrival Las Vegas."
ABQ: "Cactus 564...Albuquerque Center...good evening"
AW-564: "564 at 39,000'"


9:29pm...

AW-564: "Cactus 564...off to our 3:00, got some strobes out there.
Could you tell us what it is?"
ABQ: "Uh, Uh..I'll tell you what, that's some, uh..right now
...I don't know what it is right now. That is a
restricted area that is used by the military out there
during the day time."
AW-564: "Yeah...it's pretty odd."
ABQ: "Hold on ...let me see if anybody else knows around here."


9:30pm...

AW-564: "Cactus 564..can you paint that object at all on your radar
ABQ: "Cactus 564...No I don't, and in talkin' to 3 or 4 guys
around here no one knows what that is, never heard about
that."
AW-564: "Cactus 564...nobody's painting it at all?"
ABQ: "Cactus 564 say again?"
AW-564: "I said there's nothing on their radars on the other centers
at all on that (garbled) clear area, ...that object that's
up in the air?
ABQ: "Uh?..it's up in the air?"
AW-564: "A-FFIRMATIVE!!"
ABQ: "No...no one knows anything about it."
What's the altitude about?"
AW-564: "I don't know, probably right around 30,000 or so. And it's
uh...there's a strobe that starts..um, going on counter-
clockwise, and uh...the length is unbelievable."
(???): "Where's this?"



(NOTE: The last question above cannot be readily identified as having come
from the Albuquerque FAA controller. Perhaps it was, however since a conversation
with Cannon AFB began just at this point it could well indicate that the conversation
was being monitored. The very next statement heard is the Albuquerque FAA
controller calling to Cannon AFB.)


9:31pm...

ABQ: "Cannon 121?"
CANNON: "Cannon..go ahead"
ABQ: "Do you guys know if there was anything like a tethered
balloon released that should be above 'tieband'?"
CANNON: "Uh, no, we haven't heard nothin' about it."
(BOTH)" "Uh, ok..(some chuckling), uh, ha.."
ABQ: "A guy at 39,000 says he sees something at 30,000 that's as,
..the length is unbelievable and it has a strobe on it."
CANNON: "Uh huh...?"
ABQ: "This is NOT good..(laughing)..okay..."
CANNON: "Uh, wha..what does that mean?:
ABQ: "(laughing)..I don't know, it's a ufo or something, it's that
Roswell crap again!"
CANNON: "Where's it at now?"
ABQ: "He says it's right in 'tieband'."
CANNON: "It's right in 'tieband'?"
ABQ: "Yeah!"
CANNON: "No, we haven't seen nothin' like that."
ABQ: "Okay, keep your eyes open."
CANNON: "I'll talk to you (mumbled)."


9:34pm...

ABQ: "Cactus 564...we checked with Cannon and they don't have
any, uh, weather balloons or anything up tonight. Nobody
up front knows any idea about that. Do you still see it?"
AW-564: "Negative..back where we initially spotted it it was between
the weather and us and when there's lightning you could
see a dark object...and, uh, it was pretty eerie looking.
This 'air coptr..(mumbled)' right here going eastbound...
maybe he'll see it."
ABQ: "Okay.."
AW-564: "First time in 15 years I've ever seen anything like this.
It's probably military in that restricted area."
ABQ: "Cactus 564..you contact Albuquerque Center 132.8,
goodnight."
AW-564: "132.8 contact 564."



Just then it sounds like another person in another aircraft breaks
in on the conversation. It is never clear just what type of aircraft this is
but the individual has clearly overheard the recent discussion.


9:35pm...

ABQ: "Aircraft calling..try again!"
(?): "Center...uh..got time for a quick question?"
ABQ: "Okay..would the question stand-by one please?...
...okay..go ahead."
(?): "(mumbled) 781, what was that cactus guy talking about he
saw?"
ABQ: "I, I don't know, off your right wing about 15-20 miles.
He's saying he saw a large object with a strobe that looked
like it was at 30,000 feet."
(?): "Ah...it's that secret stuff!"


9:36pm...

AW-564: "Albuquerque...Cactus 564."
ABQ: "Cactus 564..go ahead."
AW-564: "(garbled)..that passed us earlier on the right. He'll be in
the area in a few minutes, is that correct?"
ABQ: "Yeah, he'll be in there in about 3-4 minutes, at 27,000.
I'll ask him what he sees."
AW-564: "..be at his left-hand side between him and the thunder
storm. Thanks alot, we'll just monitor and listen."
ABQ: "Okay."
AW-564: "Three of us up here saw it!!"
ABQ: "Okay."


After a minute or so Albuquerque Center starts up a conversation
with another aircraft. Again it is unclear at first what aircraft this is as
there was no identification given and this aircraft does not preface
it's transmissions with any identifier. A bit later a statement is directed
to "Hawk 85" which appears to be the aircraft in question.


9:31pm...

ABQ: "I can't find...in the next 2-3 minutes. Be looking off your
right side, if you see anything about 30000 feet, we had
one aircraft reporting simething that wasn't a weather
balloon or anything. It was a long white looking thing with
a strobe on. Let me know if you see anything out there.
(?): "I'll be careful..(garbled)"
ABQ: "He said it was about 30,000'."
(?): "(mumbled) I'm searching for ET."


9:40pm...

ABQ: "Cactus 564...you still up?"
AW-564: "Affirmative! 564"
ABQ: "That was south of your position?"
AW-564: "It was north.."
ABQ: "Hawk 85, let's make it out the left window then."
AW-564: "Albuquerque, can we get a chance..Cactus 564."
ABQ: "You know we're all up here huddled up talking about it. When
it lightning'd you could see the dark object. It was like a
cigar shape from the altitude that we could see it..and the
length is what go us, a...sort of confused, because it
looked like it was about 300-400 feet long. So I don't know
if it's a wire with a strobe on it, but the strobe would
start from the left and go right, counter-clockwise...and
it was a pretty eerie looking site, but a, had the strobe..



At this point in the tape copy I received there appeared to have
been some problem as there was a brief approximately 1/3 second
solid tone like a dialtone. Then there was a strong transmission like
another broadcast trying to cut in. The previous conversation continued
briefly and the tone appears again followed by another request to "Albuquerque Radio".


9:41pm...

(brief but solid strong tone heard)
(?): "ALBQUERQUE RADIO?...ALBUQUERQUE RADIO?"
AW-564?: "..and it was just in the lightning..."
(?): (solid strong tone heard again)
(?) "ALBUQUERQUE RADIO?"
ABQ: "Yeah...is this one any better?"
(?): "Yeah."
ABQ: "Oh good! Ha..hey you guys don't know anything about some
kind of weather balloon or a ufo that's out in the vicinity
of Fort Sumner tonight do you?"
(?) "I don't think so...standby."
ABQ: "Okay.."
(?): "At this point the answer to that question is 'no'."
ABQ: "Okay..yeah, this guy sees it up at Tucumcari, says it looks
like it's 300-400 foot long, cylindrical, some kind of
strobe on it, and everything else."
(?) "Well...I would call it...I don't know what it is..yea."
ABQ: "Yeah, okay...I didn't know if you were a science fiction
buff or anything."
(?) "Yea..no, we don't have, we don't have any published "high
balls" today."
ABQ: "Okay..appreciate it."
(?): "Mmm hmm...bye."


9:42pm...

AW-564: "Albuquerque, 564...last time...just for our notes we're
going to take a message. was that in a restricted area..and
that was just basically south of Tucumcari when we reported
it?"
ABQ: "Okay...the way you went through, the only restricted area
was on your south side, nothing to the north side...and
those restricted areas are inactive. There shouldn't be
anything going on."


9:44pm...

AW-564: "Albuquerque Center..Cactus 564. Thanks for your help and,
uh, could we get your call sign?"
ABQ: "Cactus 564...say again?"
AW-564: "Albuquerque Center..Cactus564..We'll talk to you later.
Before we go could we get your call-sign?"
ABQ: "Cactus 564...mine is 'PP'."
AW-564: "Was that 'tango golf'?"
ABQ: "Pappa Pappa."
AW-564: "Pappa Pappa...thanks alot."

[edit on 14/1/2009 by OzWeatherman]

This is the transcript between ATC and NORAD

9:48pm...

ABQ: "Bigfoot...Albuquerque Sector 87."
BIGFOOT: "Bigfoot's on!"
ABQ: "Yea..I've got a, uh, something unusual and I was wanting
to know if you'all happen to know of anything going on
out here around Tucumcari, New Mexico,...north of Cannon?
I had a couple of aircraft reported something 300-400 foot
long..cylindrical in shape, with a strobe flashing off to
the end of it."
BIGFOOT: "Oh..?"
ABQ: "At 30,000 feet."
BIGFOOT: "Okay...hang on a second."
ABQ: "Yeah, I didn't know if you happen to know of anything
going on out there...no balloons in the area, no nothing
reported?"
BIGFOOT: "Okay, where's this at again?"
ABQ: "It's at, uh, well ya'know where...it's in Tucumcar, New
Mexico, it's about 150 miles to the east of Albuquerque."
BIGFOOT: "Okay, eh...how far from Holloman?"
ABQ: "Eh, Holloman, it looks like it's off the zero-three-zero
of Holloman about 220 miles."
BIGFOOT: "Okay...I think, okay...it's kind'a hard for us to see here.
Okay, they'll be zero for about 200. Um...we don't have
anything going on over there that I know of."
ABQ: "Yeah...I didn't know, we've tried everybody else and
nobody else is...this guy definitely saw it run all the way
down the side of the airplane. Said it was a pretty
interesting thing out there."
BIGFOOT: "Okay, it was at 30,000 feet.."
ABQ: "...30,000 feet."
BIGFOOT: "It was like..long...um.."
ABQ: "Yeah, it's right out of, right out of the X-files. I mean
definite UFO or something like that, I mean."
BIGFOOT: "..and..it..ooohh..ya'll are serious about this (laughing)."
ABQ: "Yeah, he's real serious about that to, and..uh..he looked
at, saw it, no balloons are reported tonight, nothing in
the area..."
BIGFOOT: "It was strobing off the front he said?"
ABQ: "Uh...I think the strobe was off the tail end of it."
BIGFOOT: "Okay...strobe tail end."
ABQ: "He said it was kinda, well it was dark but..(aside to
someone else)..did he say there was lights in it?"
BIGFOOT: "How long did he say it was?"
ABQ: "He said it was 300-400 foot long."
BIGFOOT: "Holy smoke!!"
ABQ: "..and we don't have any air carriers out here so...that
strobing along."
BIGFOOT: "um..the only thing that I can do is , I wonder if any of
our aerostats cut loose or something 'cause we don't
have any aerostats there."
ABQ: "Yeah...not that far to the north."
BIGFOOT: "I mean...to me it would sound like an aerostat, but..I
don't think ours are that big though."

Here is Captan Eugene Tollefson's drawing of the unknown object:


www.ufoevidence.org...

Interesting stuff! I found some parts of the transcripts especially intriguing. First these parts from conversation between ATC and Captain Tollerfson (Cactus 564):

9:29pm...
AW-564: "Cactus 564...off to our 3:00, got some strobes out there.
Could you tell us what it is?"
ABQ: "Uh, Uh..I'll tell you what, that's some, uh..right now
...I don't know what it is right now. That is a
restricted area that is used by the military out there
during the day time."

9:42pm...

AW-564: "Albuquerque, 564...last time...just for our notes we're
going to take a message. was that in a restricted area..and
that was just basically south of Tucumcari when we reported
it?"
ABQ: "Okay...the way you went through, the only restricted area
was on your south side, nothing to the north side...and
those restricted areas are inactive. There shouldn't be
anything going on."

And next, this part where it sounds like another person in another aircraft breaks in on the conversation. Not clear what type of aircraft, but the individual has overheard the recent discussion:

9:35pm...
ABQ: "Aircraft calling..try again!"
(?): "Center...uh..got time for a quick question?"
ABQ: "Okay..would the question stand-by one please?...
...okay..go ahead."
(?): "(mumbled) 781, what was that cactus guy talking about he
saw?"
ABQ: "I, I don't know, off your right wing about 15-20 miles.
He's saying he saw a large object with a strobe that looked
like it was at 30,000 feet."
(?): "Ah...it's that secret stuff!"

"Restricted area" - and "secret stuff".

Did Captain Tollefson draw a secret military craft? Is this another indication that at least some of the UFOs reported over the years really are military technology?

Thanks for posting, Oz!

The transcripts:
www.ufoevidence.org...

Links to articles:
ufologie.net...
www.ufoevidence.org...

Ufocasebook also has an article and this sighting depiction:

www.ufocasebook.com...

reply to post by ziggystar60


Cheers for that picture, my photobucket account was playing up.

Yes it is "convenient" that the object was sighted over a restricted area, but if it was military, would NORAD even talk to ATC like they did or would they just scoff at the report straight off and refuse to even acknowledge it?

Many questions remain on this, need to dig a bit deeper I think

[edit on 14/1/2009 by OzWeatherman]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Good Thread OzWeatherman,

This incident is Good UFO case and i believe the Pilot did see a Cigar shaped object that day. no doubt in my mind especially since Norad tracked it and a F-117 Pilot that was sent to check it out also seen it.





[edit on 14-1-2009 by easynow]

Hi Oz,

This is just one of many interesting events that happen on a daily basis.

One problem I have to this day is the fact that people wait for disclosure from the US Government, why?

If Obama comes into office and says, yes there are UFO's and Aliens,why would his words be run around the World without showing the proof like is expected of the millions of experiencers that have been on these ships and having the after effects of dealing with these beings over there life time.

I have written plain out right that I am a Human with an Alien Soul and those words are only taken as I must have a screw loose.

People here that want to know I wonder do they really want to know, I'm telling you that the ships are real and there are different ships for different uses. There are different species right here in the deepest of our waters.

Why are not my words as good as what Obama's or another Official's?

You can go over this event again and again and it won't go anywhere as I see it, people will wait for Obama to come forth or the likes to see if Steve Bassett off Paradigm Research is right when he says disclosure in the Spring of 09 and his reason is other Countries coming forward are making the USA look bad and the USA can't afford to have another Country Disclose first because it would be more of a down fall for the Super Power status for this Country.

Oz we are here and when it is time for you and all to know you will know.

Well done Oz...

The conversation between ABQ & NORAD speak of an Aerostat...




These do not look to be 300 - 400 feet long, dark and eerie...and the photo zigg posted has NO similarities to an Aerostat...of course the pilot could have described what he saw incorrectly, but considering his profession, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.





mmarrga itde!

[edit on 1/14/2009 by chapter29]

Oz, great of you to do the research and resurrect this story, because I, of course, have heard of it before...and it has apparently been attempted to be dis-credited as much as possible.

GOOD JOB! bringing the transcripts to light!!! Airline pilots can read, and understand the verbiage...the proper 'cadence'...that shows the reality of this encounter. Going on 13-14 years hence, and no real accounting, by the US Government!

Great job, OZ!

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Was David Copperfield onboard, cause he can make an entiire
plane appear and disappear?

reply to post by weedwhacker


(for non-airline pilots) I wanted to add to my previous post to prevent confusion regarding airline call-signs. When America West first began operations in circa 1982 they used the FAA/ATC-approved call-sign 'america west'. It led to too many confusing responses by the company 'AmericanAirlines', whose call-sign was, of course, 'american'.

What I am trying to say is when you are on a radio frequency and are doing something else, you are always keen to hear your call-sign...and it was easy to mis-hear 'america west' and think that ATC said 'american', especially if your flight numbers were similar. SO....this confusion led to many missed clearances, and mis-communications and subsequent problems and confusions. THAT is why 'America West' (NOW merged with USAir) changed their call-sign to 'cactus'.

ps....for those of us old enough to remember, the grand airline 'PamAm' used the call-sign 'clipper', in reference to the 'good-old-days' of their early 1930's' Clipper over-seas service. For some reason, also BTW, British Airways uses 'speedbird' as a call-sign. So, when you listen in on the ATC frequencies this may help you to understand what's being said.

You can hear the audio (and see a re-creation) of this incident towards the end of this clip;



And at the beginning of this one:



Both are part of the documentary entitled: UFO Files: Black Box UFO Secrets Revealed.

It would be great if (as part of the flight data recording system) video cameras could be added fore and aft which could also be positioned by the co-pilot to confirm bogeys for ATC on the ground. Something along the lines of what we see in police vehicles with their dashboard cams but adapted for commercial aircraft. However, I doubt such a system would even be considered these days for a variety of reason.

I have to say the Blackbox stuff is probably the most interesting stuff out there other than the Nasa videos. I could listen all day long! I've heard this one before, even when I was a lot younger. But thanks for the read...

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Tethered aerostats do not have flashing lights as described... However... what you might find interesting is that some researchers have found a correlation between tethered aerostats and UFO hotspots.

Consider for a moment the hypothesis that there are alien bases underground or underwater. Then, consider for a moment that the US wanted to keep an eye on said installations. Then they could install aerostats and claim some other purpose such as monitoring drug traffic.

www.iraap.org...

www.fas.org...


-rrr

[edit on 14-1-2009 by rickyrrr]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


That was some interesting stuff there Oz...thanks so much! Considering its a restricted area I would think it might be one of our own...but who knows. Keep up the good work.

reply to post by Alienmojo


This is interesting because of the restricted zone nearby. I'd like to hypothesize that this could have been a military run effort to test ET Craft technology.

One of our own people, driving one of theirs.

Key points in this one are I think:

1. Something very unusual and tangible was flying (or rather hovering) because we have several independent reliable witnesses to an object (not just lights) in the sky.
2. NORAD almost contemporaneously reported a radar return.
3. It occurred over in air space that is sometimes used for secure military exercises.
4. NORAD later denied that they detected anything.

Simplest hypothesis that fits the fact;

A. The military were flying an extremely unusual, and secret air craft.
B. A helpful but uninformed military ATC saw the object and confirmed the radar return because they were not aware of the exercise, before being clipped behind the ear and told it didn't happen.

reply to post by synchro


synchro, good finds from YouTube (although I'd seen them before, still many haven't). For some reason they don't play well for me, could be my equipment....

Anyway, there WAS a move, some time ago, instigated by the NTSB to require video cameras in airliner cockpits (or as they are referred to today, the 'flight decks'....or, in Boeing-speak, 'control-cabins'). This was posited as an additional tool to supplement the CVR and DFDR equipment already mandated. The main Pilots' Union, ALPA, objected vehemently to this intrusion...and, of course, for once the lobbying arm of the major US Airlines, the ATA, agreed with the pilots, but only because of the costs involved.

The thinking of the NTSB was merely to better airline safety, by having more tools for after-the-fact investigations of accidents. A much better solution was implemented, roughly 10-15 years ago in the US --- it was better Pilot training and recognition of the importance of the 'team' on the Flight Deck, instead of the older traditonal deference to the 'Captain', no matter what...plus an emphasis on more standardized checklist discipline.

Hence, a much better safety record, year-over-year (when we factor out terrorist events). This co-incided with an increase in automation technology as well, helping to lighten the workload of the pilots, thus dimishing potential distractions.

Unfortunately, the luxury of external cameras just to look for UFOs is not a viable option...only concept of a modern application that is close is on the Airbus A-380. The idea there is to see where the Main Gear are so the pilot who is taxiing can ensure his wheels don't leave the paved areas.

Of course, American Airlines famously had a camera installed in the 'cockpit' of their DC-10s so that passengers could watch the take-off and landing. Back in the day, of course...and the Second Officer, or Flight Engineer, was not in camera frame. It was common practice for the SO to assist in setting the throttles during the take-offs, back then (assuming they did not use the Auto-Thottles) so you would see an arm extend from below the camera. One day, the SO put on a gorilla sleeve, did his thing, and the FO handed him a banana.

Funny as all get-out to me, but as you can imagine, AA management was not pleased.

So, the three got a slap on the wrist...the cameras continued, until the tragic accident in Chicago in 1979.

(BTW, THAT accident had NOTHING to do with any pilots' antics....in fact, they were victims of a certain maintenance practice, but that's off-topic, and too long to go into...).

Point is, these brave pilots who dare to speak up, knowing that they are being recorded, when they encounter unusual sights deserve a mention. They risk ridicule, or worse...you can hear the hint of ridicule in the controller's voices. AND, on the landline when the controller calls the Military Base.

Originally posted by chapter29
Well done Oz...

The conversation between ABQ & NORAD speak of an Aerostat...

These do not look to be 300 - 400 feet long, dark and eerie...and the photo zigg posted has NO similarities to an Aerostat...of course the pilot could have described what he saw incorrectly, but considering his profession, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

mmarrga itde!

[edit on 1/14/2009 by chapter29]

Do these things actually fly in thunderstorms?

Unfortunately, the luxury of external cameras just to look for UFOs is not a viable option...only concept of a modern application that is close is on the Airbus A-380. The idea there is to see where the Main Gear are so the pilot who is taxiing can ensure his wheels don't leave the paved areas.

The Boeing 777-300, and Airbus A340-600 also have cameras around the landing gear. The A340-600 has camera on the tail.

www.airliners.net...

The Gulfstream 450 / 550 has FLIR that can be displayed on the MFD; on these aircraft, they should allow recording of the video.