The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

It's really quite simple, genocide and murdering children are both morally wrong

So what is your view on abortion?

reply to post by dusty1


While not really relevant to the topic my view on abortion is a bit complicated. On the one hand I think we need it for terminating pregnancies that are medically necessary, namely those than endanger the Mother. I also agree that people who are raped or are victims of incest should be able to get them. However I don't think they should be considered a woman's right or be allowed for just anyone. So I'm not sure I could call myself pro-life or pro-choice. I don't think abortion is murdering a child but I also don't think its a good thing (neither do most who are pro-choice that I've talked to). In fact I would argue that abortion is a symptom of a larger problem, namely our inability to control our reproductive urges and take responsibility for our sexual actions and the consequences of them.

I once posted a thread asking people about God's opinion on abortion as I find it strange that many pro-life people are also Fundamentalist Christians who don't think twice when they read the Flood Story or the Exodus or the stories of the Israelites being commanded to kill children.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

I once posted a thread asking people about God's opinion on abortion as I find it strange that many pro-life people are also Fundamentalist Christians who don't think twice when they read the Flood Story or the Exodus or the stories of the Israelites being commanded to kill children.

That is because 9 out of 10 people don't understand the Hebrew behind Genesis chapter 6 and the reason for the flood to begin with. It wasn't sent for sin, but to destroy the Nephillim that populated the Earth. Genesis 6 says the Nephillim populated the Earth in those days (Noah), "and after that."

When Joshua was entering the land of Canaan his scouts returned word that there was "Nephillim in the land." Also that they were like "grasshoppers" compared to them. If one doesn't understand Genesis chapter 6 and who the Nephillim or Rephaim were there isn't a way they can understand much of the OT.

God was destroying "the seed of the serpent", not just judgment on sinful mankind.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

 

I once posted a thread asking people about God's opinion on abortion as I find it strange that many pro-life people are also Fundamentalist Christians who don't think twice when they read the Flood Story or the Exodus or the stories of the Israelites being commanded to kill children.

That is because 9 out of 10 people don't understand the Hebrew behind Genesis chapter 6 and the reason for the flood to begin with. It wasn't sent for sin, but to destroy the Nephillim that populated the Earth. Genesis 6 says the Nephillim populated the Earth in those days (Noah), "and after that."

When Joshua was entering the land of Canaan his scouts returned word that there was "Nephillim in the land." Also that they were like "grasshoppers" compared to them. If one doesn't understand Genesis chapter 6 and who the Nephillim or Rephaim were there isn't a way they can understand much of the OT.

God was destroying "the seed of the serpent", not just judgment on sinful mankind.

So if it was Gods will and Gods work to be done to destroy the 'bad race'.....then why do you suppose the plan didnt work and 'there were still giants in the lands' after the flood?

Are you saying God makes mistakes?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Of course not. What that means is angels again took daughters of man and produced demi-god offspring. I doubt that after the flood came satan decided to abandon his plan to pervert the human line to the Messiah. In fact, after God spoke to Abraham satan knew he had 400 more years to lay a genetic minefield in the land.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


But dont you think it would be made clear again (this is the book of god) that if the giants were still in the lands after the flood due to angles again, coming down and mating again with man....that this would of been mentioned. Since its not mentioned, it makes it sounds like the flood was not successful.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

But dont you think it would be made clear again (this is the book of god) that if the giants were still in the lands after the flood due to angles again, coming down and mating again with man....that this would of been mentioned. Since its not mentioned, it makes it sounds like the flood was not successful.

Huh? It says the sons of God took human women and produced offspring, and it says "and also after that." Then there are names of these Rephaim in the books of the Bible. It says in Genesis these angels did this before the flood and after the flood.

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:4

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

But dont you think it would be made clear again (this is the book of god) that if the giants were still in the lands after the flood due to angles again, coming down and mating again with man....that this would of been mentioned. Since its not mentioned, it makes it sounds like the flood was not successful.

Huh? It says the sons of God took human women and produced offspring, and it says "and also after that." Then there are names of these Rephaim in the books of the Bible. It says in Genesis these angels did this before the flood and after the flood.

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:4

I dont think this is referring to giants being there preflood and then after sons of god again after the flood come unto the daughters of man.

I think if you read other verses to the 'sons of gods offspring...you find out the 'giants that are there after the flood, were not new offspring due to 'another fallen sons of god' scenario...but that this 'giants' in the lands after the flood...are the sons of the sons of the of God. That pre-flood 'bloodlines' of giants....survived the flood and then created new offspring's. When it goes later into the other chapters about the 'later giants'....there is no reference to another fall...but more like a 'bloodline' that still existed.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


God doesn't have a special plan for humans. It's clear that God is incompetent and, at least, terribly capricious.

99.8% of all species ever existing on Earth have become extinct. The Laryngeal nerve of the giraffe shows that designer is not perfect, and life is not "intelligently" designed. Nature is without forsight, Nature cannot go back to the drawing board.

If God does exist, i think he makes mistakes all the time. God is the desctructive force of nature, as well as the cause for our subjective love for nature. Personally, again, i don't think any omnipotent God exists, if the God does exists, he cares not for the affairs of his creation.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

God doesn't have a special plan for humans. It's clear that God is incompetent and, at least, terribly capricious.

99.8% of all species ever existing on Earth have become extinct. The Laryngeal nerve of the giraffe shows that designer is not perfect, and life is not "intelligently" designed. Nature is without forsight, Nature cannot go back to the drawing board.

If God does exist, i think he makes mistakes all the time. God is the desctructive force of nature, as well as the cause for our subjective love for nature. Personally, again, i don't think any omnipotent God exists, if the God does exists, he cares not for the affairs of his creation.

edit on 27/2/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

Just as though we see winter being the death of many things...it simply is a part of the processing of life.

What seems to you as 'mistakes and destructive'....may have a purpose in the perpetual motion of 'being'.

God...may very well be a very impersonal force. Not something we all can pray to and 'it shall be received'....but more of a mighty force of life in constant 'being' consistently needing 'to and fro' as it 'expresses' itself through ' life in all things'.

It may be more of a way to 'renew' constantly, the force of life and to be infinite, always 'being'.

We have created many 'images' for what 'god' may be and many of them are personal to us...something we can pray to. I dont pray to anything outside of me....but I do give reverence to the cycles and orders of life and believe there is a Spirit within all things and without that holy spirit....we are nothing.

I ancient Jewish religion is true, I don't have all the names right but I heard iIt said that evil and good are one and the same and are from the same God. What evidence do we have the God is a loving God? We have much more evidence that there is a God than that there is a loving God. It is my opinion a person who believes in God and lives through life having their eyes opened up develops compassion, gratitude, and all kinds of feelings of love, that would be evidence.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


That's just the pantheism stance as far as i am concerned. You can't derive absolute moral laws or other abstract concepts from simply observing nature. Pantheism is just a labelling game - The universe IS GOD, God is the mecahnics behind it. Everytime humans learn more about the universe,the pantheist just labels that "GOD".

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

That's just the pantheism stance as far as i am concerned. You can't derive absolute moral laws or other abstract concepts from simply observing nature. Pantheism is just a labelling game - The universe IS GOD, God is the mecahnics behind it. Everytime humans learn more about the universe,the pantheist just labels that "GOD".

Call it what you like but things that I have witnessed and experienced shows me there is much more to all of this then just random happenstance...so I choose to call this mysterious something 'god or holy spirit'. I dont think there are words that can label it properly but we use words to communicate thoughts so a word such as 'god' will have to do.

I'm new to this thread, and I don't have the time at my disposal to read the many posts, so the little I have to contribute may have already been covered.

According to many eastern mystical teachings, the Word of God refers to the Sound Current or Divine Music which emanates from God and creates and sustains the entire cosmos. This is not something which can be written or spoken in words, but only "heard" within oneself, usually during meditative practices.

This mystic Word of God may have been taught by Jesus, but it's original meaning lost in the recordings and translations by disciples who had no direct knowledge or contact with this Sound Current.

So from the point of view of these mystic teachings, the Bible is not the Word of God, though it may very well have been divinely inspired.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I would also like to reply to this that you said...

God doesn't have a special plan for humans

I wouldnt think that its any more special for humans then anything else that is of the universe.

The Oak tree doesnt have to have a plan for the acorn it produces...and the acorn doesnt have to know that its a part of the Earth to serve its purpose for the life on Earth.

I dont think its about a plan at all...I think its just about 'be-ing'. I do think the infinite energy that is within all things...does have a base nature within concious beings and that base nature is harmony.

I do think that by observing nature...we can find moral grounds which are 'harmonic living'. We dont have to abide by this or even acknowledge it...but to see that life must have other life to live...this is a harmonic dependency.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

I wouldnt think that its any more special for humans then anything else that is of the universe.

I wouldn't think so too, we're all part of the same contruct; other animals, plants and rocks

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

I wouldnt think that its any more special for humans then anything else that is of the universe.

I wouldn't think so too, we're all part of the same contruct; other animals, plants and rocks

The here is to common ground, for you and I...awake and aware.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

The here is to common ground, for you and I...awake and aware.

..As small as it may be.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

There is no justification, in my mind, for God to kill innocent Egyptian civilians as opposed to, say, Pharaoh himself.

Who is innocent? Only small children before they are old enough to understand and they are not sinless. Everyone born of Adam will die. Everything since the fall has died. Death is not a legal penalty, it simply a consequence of our condition. Those old enough to decide, decided to be either in Goshen with the Jews or in the rest of Egypt where the plagues were. After experiencing nine plagues already, it would seem they were well informed and could rationally make a choice about where to pass that fateful night.
As for babies sin is not imputed to them because they have not made a choice to sin. Those who experienced physical death were not punished spiritually. Those who decided to support Pharoah and stay in Dodge were counted guilty of breaking their own good sense of logic and worthy of a legal punishment - spiritual death.
Being a first born does not imply youth. Many senior citizens are first born.
Neither were Jobs children young. Each had his own house, implying they were all adults.
You can doubt the Book all you want, but modern newspapers can't keep up with the pace of prophecy fulfillment contained within it's pages.