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The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

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posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by LeoVirgo


(sigh)

Of what relevance does any of your discussion have to do with
conspiracies?

And how important is it, anyway, when the conspiracy I am talking about has already resulted in the loss of millions of Jewish lives during the Holocaust and tens of thousands of French lives in the Albigensian Crusade?

Michael Cecil


And I guess your the only one that should have room to talk on this thread sense you find your posts to be the only ones worth value?

Someone said something that they cant offer any evidence of....so if you dont mind not butting in....I will continue to pull them out on that.

Yes, it is a shame people get killed....but ya know....things are bound to happen when people think they are 'chosen'.

Its a history with two sides of two different sides that think they are chosen....so hopefully we are learning from our histories.

And whats up with your 'sighs' anyways...it makes you look like a drama queen or something. Meet and greet and discuss with a


Have a nice day


[edit on 16-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 16-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]




posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by plube
I can see the narrow mindedness in the religious few as when you present ideas or possibilities with actually saying there is no god or no higher power they imediately try to defend the undefendable with scripture and quotes....which once again are open to interpretation...but i can say this there is much more solid evidence to the other deities that i mentioned than there is for anything written in the bible....yes yes i have read it completely and the book of genesis and the book of danial from christian interpretation to jahovah witnesses....i have read the quran and many others but the difference is i look at things objectively instead of subjectively ......so i am not sure about others but least i know i am seeking the knowledge instead of being swayed by it...not only that i have taken the time to learn to read and speak arabic and cantonese to better understand what i read...i also read mayan and egyptian hierogyphs...now just take the the time to read the pyramid texts...the coffin texts...and the book of the dead ....i am not here to hand things on a platter....learn for yourself why would you believe anything i present anyways as your judgment is set.....so plaese keep close minded and keep narrows views and discount what is shown cause that will make you feel better about yourself.......take care one can only awaken those whom choose to awaken themselves.


So you didnt respond to me directly, when I asked you to show me where in the book of the dead it shows the info you listed for Horus.

First off....Im not of a religion and this post above seems to be trying to pull two different sides of the coin together. In one breath your talking about how people are trying to defend scriptures with quotes....I dont do that, I dont defend scriptures.

Then you go on to say you are not going to hand feed information to people and telling them to read it for themselves.

I have....


That is why I know.....


You cant show me in the book of the dead.....where such info on Horus is.

You wont show me, because you cant.

Have a great day




posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo

And I guess your the only one that should have room to talk on this thread sense you find your posts to be the only ones worth value?


From the header at the top of the page:

This forum is not for the general discussion of religious topics.

Did you even read it?

Or don't you care?

Michael Cecil



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


Then go pull the one out that started the discussion of Horus


Thankfully, most of the people here at ATS dont get their panties in a bunch when there is general discussions within a discussion.

Someone stated something as a fact....I pulled them out on that....if you think Im 'not obeying rules' then report me.

All my best to yas
LV



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


Then go pull the one out that started the discussion of Horus


Thankfully, most of the people here at ATS dont get their panties in a bunch when there is general discussions within a discussion.

Someone stated something as a fact....I pulled them out on that....if you think Im 'not obeying rules' then report me.


That's the last thing I would do.

Say whatever you want to say.

Not my job to interfere.

Not the moderator here.

Just saying.

Michael Cecil

All my best to yas
LV




posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Michael Cecil
 


Point well taken....Im not trying to over run a thread...Ive been here a couple years...I know this is a forum for conspiracies of religion and I also am willing to respect any derails that the OP finds not fit for discussion.

And I surely never intended for the topic of 'horus' to last more then one reply....but I do expect people to back up their claims.

The topics posted are supposed to be for 'conspiracies' in this forum (the Opening Post/Thread topic). If the mods find it to not be, they will move the thread to BTS in the 'faith and spirituality' forum. If you notice though...a thread may start about a conspiracy...and within that thread, there may be discussions within a discussion. Hopefully it is quick and to the point and doesnt derail the thread topic....which is my concern. Im really not happy with the fact I couldnt get a 'one' reply offering the evidence I asked for and I had to keep asking. But anywho...



[edit on 16-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


The infants, children, and mentally challenged all went to Heaven. That’s a wonderful blessing. They were already condemned as sinners, but protected because of grace.
John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You have to know what I will say. A person commits murder when they premeditate to take the life of another. I should never take that decision upon myself. We are to obey those who have rule over us. That includes going to war when your country so declares.

I do not belong to a church that has graven images. We have a cross (not a crucifix) and a Bible as wall decorations. During mission conferences, we have flags of various nations.

If your children are old enough to think for themselves and you have taught them to believe like you, you have taught them to remain condemned.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by zachi
 




The infants, children, and mentally challenged all went to Heaven.


You think the fact that they went to Heaven EXCUSES CHILD MURDER?



If someone were to barge into your house and murder your children and then claim at the court hearing "But your honor, they all went to Heaven" how would you feel?

Saying they went to some imaginary paradise does not excuse the fact that their lives were wrongfully taken and that the God of the Bible is guilty of murder on several occasions and is an accomplice to it on many others.

Second off the old testament killings say NOTHING about the children going to Heaven and that verse in John actually suggests the opposite, that those who do not believe for ANY REASON can be sent to Hell. The second verse from John ALSO suggests that anyone who does not choose Jesus explicitly we be handed wrath.

This is not the word of a divine or merciful being here, and its obvious.



If your children are old enough to think for themselves and you have taught them to believe like you, you have taught them to remain condemned.


As far as I know Christians do this too, they teach their children that they were born into sin, they tear the child down and rebuild them so that they NEED this religion to be whole. I would say religious indoctrination condemns a child to, at least until they reach the age of reason, be trapped inside a fantasy world.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 02:22 AM
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When i put in the forum about horus,dionysus,attis,mithra,krishna...

It was to suggest alternative views points on whether it was mans book or gods book.

hence the title of the thread...now i am very new here and if that was in error than so be it...we live we learn...

but the i also put in a rebuttle asking for proof of anything in the bible which i think is just as fair a question

now MY opinion is still in reference that i think it is a mans book

the apostles themselves wrote their bits anywhere from 60-90AD

revelations about 130Ad

and then in 1604AD low and behold comes along king james and says lets translate this stuff and put it into a collective and hand this out to the people as true doctrine

well that is a bit over the top for me (my opinion)

also you ask for proof of horus...and i gave to a link to the source of the literature where it is written...but it is open to interpretation just as the bible is....so i am not going to say yes...here it is in full glory cause that too would make me a bible thumping fool .....my religion is now the book of the dead and we should all follow it.

here is another link and IF you take the time to read through it a bit you will see how it could be manifested....

sacred text

also to state any translation and past scripture from 2000+ years ago as fact would be iresponsible...i never stated it as fact i put it out there as comparision.

and it is not that i am not willing to prove something....but that is exactly like saying prove Jesus existed....and for that matter Christians cant even seem to agree on Jesus' true birth date instead they choose a roaman catholic pagan holiday as the date of his birth.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by plube
 


I was the one that asked you to show me...and I am not one of the ones trying to say things from the Bible are true.

Im just going to end this convo here...instead of using more wasteful posts.

You can not show me where...and now you say its open for interpretation...of the things you listed.

So you sir, are being no different, then the ones here claiming things. At least the things they are claiming from the Bible can mostly be backed up with scripture (besides the Dec. 25th date) and most are well aware that this date is not in the Bible and admit to it.

Zeltergists is the only place you could of gotten such info. You dont have to admit that....for I already know it.

Many come here to ATS and claim those same claims as you did...and no one has backed it up. They all say....what you said....Im not going to do the research for you. Its because they cant back up the claim.

I was never trying to be rude, just stating for others that the lists was not based on real Egyptian documentations.

So Im just going to let it ride...

All my best to you
LV



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 09:24 AM
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from what I was led to believe....God and his word are one and the same thing.

So, ask yourself this question.

Is God the Bible, or is the Bible God?

I think the answer to the question is obvious.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by bruxfinn
 




I think the answer to the question is obvious.


Me too, the answer is quite obviously NEITHER. The Bible is a mix of self-contradictory stories, "histories" and myths written over the course of centuries and invented over the course of millenia. It doesn't form a coherent narrative or characterization of the God character either.

Even back when I was a Christian I was quite bothered with Christians who viewed the Bible AS their God. It seems this is the danger of fundamentalism, the Bible, a book that portrays God as a baby killer, is their deity and idol. Many of them think the only way to get to God and Jesus is through this book rather than through personal revelation or prayer or any other means.

God is meant to be a living God who you can have a personal relationship with, not an old dusty tome of stories that make no sense.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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Just for your info Leo Virgo ziegiest is not the only place to get that info....but you know what i will not waste time posting any futher on the subject....
Merry mithra
another
hmmmagain
dionysus
budha just as a after thought
horus

happy reading and not one stitch of ziegiest and just a tidbit...Ziegiest had to come up with the info somewhere no matter how weak....but i never used ziegiest once.

Now i have a geat deal of personal experience and knowledge and none of this counts towards the books i have read on the subject....as i say i have my personal reasons for trying to answer this question.

And titen-sxull i agree with you on that one about the children, but, it is all about the children because if they kill off the children they kill off the future messiah so the the thinking goes.

after my first abduction when i was 11yrs old back in 1973 i immediately wrote poetry about how all the children go to heaven in 2011,high body counts, the humiliation of mankind,and the enslavement of millions.

now for an 11yr old to write about such things was strange but as i have gotten older and have had more experiences, things i had been shown have come to pass i have slowly began to understand.

and i agree no god with one stitch of compassion should be using the children

Leo Virgo i can also site about another 100 books and authors that have touched on the jesus and other god parallels.

Also cause you may have been on this site for two years ..... That i would think does not make you any more special than myself and if you think that is the case....i should think looking up the word ego would assist you along your path in life.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


After giving the topic, what the hell is the Bible anyway, much thought, I've concluded that the book is a Bottomless Pit, or for you that consider yourselves physicists, a Black Hole; it's event horizon is darkness. If you fall in you're not coming out. Consider my analysis a free gift.

The thing that lives and rules in that book is a demon, and for the poor saps that are married to that book, the demon that lives in it will be your god alright.

Is it the work of men? I suppose that is the case...but no normal man could assemble something so thoroughly treacherous. Whatever put that thing together is a Super Villain.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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Yah,

this information from Zeitgeist is crap, it is found all over the 'net and it's mostly completely WRONG :

Mithras was NOT born of a virgin, he was born from a ROCK.
Mithras was NOT born Dec.25th
Mithras did NOT have 12 disciples, he had 2.
Mithras was NOT resurrected after 3 days.

Horus was NOT born of a virgin, Isis had sex.
Horus was NOT born Dec. 25th.
Horus did NOT have 12 disciples.


Most of these claims are just FALSE.
They were MADE UP long after the mythical era.

And please note the name of the film:
"ZEITGEIST" (spirit of the age)
not Zeltergists
not Ziegiest


Kap


[edit on 17-7-2010 by Kapyong]

[edit on 17-7-2010 by Kapyong]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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Gday,


Originally posted by plube
the apostles themselves wrote their bits anywhere from 60-90AD

revelations about 130Ad

and then in 1604AD low and behold comes along king james and says lets translate this stuff and put it into a collective and hand this out to the people as true doctrine


As if nothing happened between 130 and 1604 ?

In fact,
the bible was translated many times, from 3rd or 4th century on.

In fact,
the bible was collected from the 2nd century on.

In fact,
the bible was preached as true from the 2nd century onwards.


There is nothing special about the KJV.


Kap


[edit on 17-7-2010 by Kapyong]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:12 PM
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Gday,


Originally posted by zachi
The infants, children, and mentally challenged all went to Heaven. That’s a wonderful blessing. They were already condemned as sinners, but protected because of grace.


Ah, so that makes it OK then in your view ?

It's OK for terrorists to kill innocent people?
It's OK for someone to murder anyone?
It's OK for a crazy person to kill your family?

As long as they claim they went to heaven?

What a savage and evil point of view.


Kap



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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Gday,


Originally posted by plube
When i put in the forum about horus,dionysus,attis,mithra,krishna...
It was to suggest alternative views points on whether it was mans book or gods book.


But those claims are mostly FALSE.
Mithras was NOT born of a virgin, but a ROCK.
Mithras was NOT born Dec. 25th.

It's all MADE UP nonsense.


Kap



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by bruxfinn
 




Is it the work of men? I suppose that is the case...but no normal man could assemble something so thoroughly treacherous. Whatever put that thing together is a Super Villain.


You're forgetting the normal ordinary men carried out the Holocaust. Human beings are capable of terrible things, even the ordinary ones.

The Bible isn't much worse than other books of myth but it isn't any better either and of course it is far more believed than most other myths.

I don't think it takes a demon to do this, merely a conspiracy of human minds that is continuously propagated by indoctrination.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by bruxfinn
 




Is it the work of men? I suppose that is the case...but no normal man could assemble something so thoroughly treacherous. Whatever put that thing together is a Super Villain.


You're forgetting the normal ordinary men carried out the Holocaust. Human beings are capable of terrible things, even the ordinary ones.

The Bible isn't much worse than other books of myth but it isn't any better either and of course it is far more believed than most other myths.

I don't think it takes a demon to do this, merely a conspiracy of human minds that is continuously propagated by indoctrination.


Ordinary men may have planned and executed the holocaust, but Priests enabled it and kept what was happening out of view, until the very same Priests decided it was time to reveal what was going on.

Perhaps the Bible any of us could purchase at Borders is of no great consequence, but THE Bible from which all other Bibles are derived must be a book of power. Its a contract...the provisions of which are enforceable in the courts under the laws of the nations.

Men are not very smart...whatever assembled the Bible is an ancient evil...far separated from any notion of ordinary. The most powerful men of history were enslaved by it; notably, Charlemagne in the west and Tamerlane, under the Koran, in the east.

I don't want to make a big deal about it...but I can never accept that just a bunch of indoctrinated people have produced the horrors the world has witnessed.




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