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Are we really worth saving?

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posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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if real resolve and real money had been thrown at this problem 40 years
ago there would be no third world today.
Have you ever traveled through africa
where is the western help there?


...but, if you really believe that humanity isn't worthy of being saved, why on earth would you feel any guilt for these people starving? If humanity is so awful, then isn't their starving and suffering all well, proper and good?



anyone see my point here


I believe that I do. However. I do disagree with it. Here is another perspective to consider:

Imagine that you are the "alien" and a human wants you to save his people. You're both capable and willing, and you don't have anything planned for Saturday night anyway.

However...you also happen to be a telepath, and can read the thoughts and emotions of the human involved. In fact...you can read the thoughts and emotions of his entire race. And when you do you find a massive complex of guilt and self-loathing. You discover that many of the humans deeply and firmly believe that they don't deserve to be "rescued" and that it would be better for them to die. Many of them intellectualize this as "karmic justice," and billions of them believe that they are so fundamentally flawed and evil that only God Himself could possibly redeem them.

So...what do you do?

Do you intervene?



if we are really a race worth saving every last one of us.
Then why do we let ten of millions of poor soul from our own race die from hunger alone each year.
when all is needed to save them is money?


...so you perceive the unwillingness to help the tens of millions as "bad" and yet you would allow the entire race to become extinct because you don't believe it "worthy?"

Your perspective does not make sense to me. I can try to answer it intellectually if you'd like, but I don't think the underlying issue here is an intellectual one at all. What you're experiencing is not a thought, it's a feeling. A feeling of unworthiness. And feelings can't be addressed with reason. No matter how many "reasons" I were to give you, the "feeling" you have would remain.

The issues are of emotion, of belief, and of free will to decide for ourselves. If we truly believe that we need to be "punished" then I don't think there will be many benevolent sources forcing down our doors to come rescue us against our will.



yet we want the aliens to save us all.


I don't particularly want aliens to "save" me. And I don't perceive myself as needing to be "saved." Saved from what? I don't understand. What I really want is for the gap between what I am able to conceive and what I am able to realize to be bridged.



cant see it your way my friend


Smokingman...I reject you as an ambassador on my behalf. You are not authorized to speak for me, and I renounce all guilt and "self" loathing you have for our people. Your unwillingness to accept help does not represent me. If there truly are consciousnesses both willing and able to offer help, I refuse you as a point of contact that would hinder that help from being received.

You are free.



[edit on 21-1-2009 by LordBucket]




posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by smokingman2006
 



Come on you come across as someone that is bright if real resolve and real money had been thrown at this problem 40 years ago there would be no third world today.


Money does not solve the problems inherent in the third world! That is blatantly obvious from the tens of millions that are poured into the affected continents every year.

And that quote regarding money coming from someone who blames money for almost everything is completely hypocritical.

It is not down to the wealthy west to save those who are starving; only a fundamental change in the attitude of the populace of affected countries will begin the process of that change. But we continue to try to help, in the only way that is available to us, anyway. Just because it alleviates the suffering of only some for even a short time is justification for the efforts made by all of the aid agencies relentless work.

The root problem is embedded in the governments of the affected countries, but how do you solve that? We have no World Police Force who can go and arrest those who are generating the problem. There is no threat of global terrorism to provoke America to march in. That in itself would be a disastrous move, and now that Bush is gone, highly unlikely even if a threat was perceived.

It is the ability of those who live in third world countries to help themselves that will lift them out of the trouble they are in. They know that, even the aid agencies know that, but in the meantime food and money will still be sent over because even if a small percentage manages to slip past the corrupt governing officialdom and reaches hungry people then it was worth it.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Read that link.


Sorry beamish cant see it your way my friend


No, the only way you can see it is through this eroneuos, collaborative, “Pleiadian” point of view. Whatever twisted your perception of your fellow Man in the past has to be let go. It has corrupted your perspective of what we truly are to such an extent that you now obviously want us to be punished. Your argument is making less and less sense, you are beginning to contradict yourself, and it is becoming evident that we are reading your point of view. I find that really disturbing.

We are a wonderful race but we aren’t perfect. You’re not, I’m not, but despite that and because of it we are in this together. Would I turn my back on you if you needed help? No, even though we differ massively in the way we think.

Why?

Because you’re human.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 


LordBucket, if I could give you more than one measly star I would. You have echoed the self-same sentiment I have been trying to put across from page one of this thread, but have managed to encapsulate in a few words what has taken me thousands. I must edit more.

The incoherent path this thread has taken is, in my opinion, entirely indicative of an angry cry for help. Not one of alien contact. Despite supportive encouragement from other members, the context of the message has remained one of impending doom and unworthiness. It has gained followers, but so few as to render its original “purpose”, the passing on of a message of change from “enlightened beings”, null and void.

I wonder what “Amizarac” would say to this complete failure?


Smokingman...I reject you as an ambassador on my behalf. You are not authorized to speak for me, and I renounce all guilt and "self" loathing you have for our people. Your unwillingness to accept help does not represent me. If there truly are consciousnesses both willing and able to offer help, I refuse you as a point of contact that would hinder that help from being received. You are free.


I second that, but with one caveat:

smokingman2006 you are free, free to break away from whatever is binding you to the idea that because of our failings our existence is meaningless. Nothing that you identify as irremovable and irredeemable human flaws qualifies us to be terminated like an experiment gone wrong.

Life, in all of its glorious configurations, has to be reserved by any means available, because only through experience and making mistakes can we continue to advance.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 05:02 AM
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Good god, so our ability to awaken is directly connected to what we eat???

Hmmm... this gives new meaning to "brain food."



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 05:11 AM
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Just to put in my 2 cents.

We are worth saving. Saving ourselves that is, not by 'outsiders'.

Whenever there is a location in time or place where people can live peacefully together, arts, science and the whole spiritual development (not religion) soar to great heights. This in my opinion is our essence and the reason why we're worth 'living'. Imagine if the whole world would look like that, it would be a cultural orgasm.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 05:20 AM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


The incoherent path this thread has taken was added to by my last few posts , my apologies for them ( Gods I can waffle) , Since stopping the crap intake I have been experiencing 'technical problems' but now back on true form..


I agree with your statement that the posts have been an angry cry for help. The trouble is the angry cries have been coming from people who as yet are still to be shown any form of help , either the Governments, ET's or even from their 'fellow' man. The trouble with aiding another human being either in another country where people are starving or lately in the UK ( an old woman was mugged in Harrow , outside of London, and she was badly beaten and left on the pavement, crying for help.. About 20-30 people WALKED passed and around her as she lay pleading for help, She later died in hopsital), is that people don't care as it doesn't affect them directly.

Sure they'll put their hands in their pockets and give a couple of pound or dollars as a 'charitable donation' but where does the money actually go to?
First off say £5 , £2 goes in 'admin' fees for the company sponsoring the charity, most of that actually goes to the 'chugger' ( the person collecting) they get paid upto £10ph.. £2 goes to the 'corrupt officials 'allowing the aid in, it goes in their pockets to lavish on their lifestyle.

At most £1 gets to the people who actually need it.
Take the national lottery here in the UK ( for example) its run by a compay ( camelot) who collect the money from the punters
They pay the government tax on the total money collected ( about a quarter last time I heard).
Then another quarter is taken up in 'admin' charges.
The lottery was put out to tender and another company ( virgin) said ALL the money will go to charity as it should do as the Government promised when the lottery was started over 10 years ago.
Guess who got the contract to run it another 3-4 years?
Thats right the 'taxable' company.

Thats the attitude of the world today, grab what you can , and don't worry about anyone else.
The poor are getting poorer and the rich and corrupt, richer and even more corrupt and greedy.

The angry cry for help is us shouting out our frustrations at our own inability to make any kind of decent change. We are so annoyed at each other and that we cannot make a difference we are looking for someone else to make the changes for us, in our case the ET's .
Yes it would be nice is someone could do it for us, but then what would we learn out of it?
The same as we have learnt from our past, reliance on the governments to 'sort' out our problems.
So what would make the ET's any different from the corrupt Governments we have?
Sure the ET's may have our best interests at heart but its a quick fix for a deep problem, we'd settle back in to the routine of relying on somone else to sort the mess out, we haven't learnt anything new, we haven't evolved, we haven't gained wisdom.
We just leant on our crotches and held out our hand , hoping that someone will do the work for us.

We ARE worth saving if we get off our fat , poison riddled , lazy backsides and if we can prove to each other there IS goodness out there then maybe other Humans will change their attitude to each other, then we will truly be saved.
If we continue down the path we are currently on we WILL destroy ourselves, and we won't even notice, we'll just cry louder, we'll shout for help louder, but no one will hear us, either on Earth or in a passing craft.

People think to themselves " I want to be saved , Who will save me?"

The real truth is only you can save you, you have to try ,keep trying , keep fighting to survive.
Or just lie back , take a handfull of pills and get it over with, the choice is yours.


[edit on 21/1/09 by DataWraith]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by DataWraith
 


Data your best post to date

Beamish if I didnt have faith in the betterment of my fellow humans I would not continue posting.
We live in sinister times where nothing is what it seems any longer those who have truely wakening up see throught the bu.ll sh*t and understand things are amiss in our times.
We no longer believe our governments who run our countries as jobs for the boys with little or no long term vision.
We see the murky hand of big business stamping on the little people.
We see our hospitals, roads, schools, run into the ground all in the name of cost cutting, yet we pay more taxes than ever.
We are told that there is just no money left, yet we wittness the insane acts our government are preforming by trying to bail out banks to the tune of hundred of billions of dollars.
I you also saying because I have encounters with the Nordic I should not have an opinion of my own?
You know the saying Evil breeds when good men stand and do nothing.
peace and hope



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by smokingman2006
 



Beamish if I didnt have faith in the betterment of my fellow humans I would not continue posting.


This is a change of tone. You’ve done nothing but point out how useless we are, and have even reported that “Amizarac” said that the bulk of extraterrestrials don’t consider us worth saving. So we’re going to get better in less than three years? What about the “mass” that’s going to possibly destroy the best part of our population?


We live in sinister times where nothing is what it seems any longer


This is only true if you believe without questioning the conspiracy theories that constantly bombard us without maintaining a balanced and reasonable standpoint. Some may have a basis in fact, but most are totally spurious. And what’s sinister about the time we are living in? I’ve got food in the fridge, money in the bank, a great family, sure, some of my governmental elected representatives are useless at their jobs, but what’s new about that? Government is not infallible because it involves humans and we are not perfect.


those who have truely wakening up see throught the bu.ll sh*t and understand things are amiss in our times.


Why just now? Why are these times so terrible? Conflict and tragedy and hardship have beset every country in every century down through recorded history. There probably were a few years that our stone-age ancestors would probably have wanted to forget about, too. So once again I ask; what’s so special about 2009? The only difference is that the media is a constant supplier of bad news. Of course it’s terrible that house prices have dropped by 1.6% in the last month, but that also means that they have maintained 98.4% of their value! There are always two sides to the argument.


We no longer believe our governments who run our countries as jobs for the boys with little or no long term vision.


Of course they have long term vision! We are not living in a badly scripted film! Yes, there will be corruption and bad decisions, but we will come out of this current crisis, and because of our representatives.


We see the murky hand of big business stamping on the little people.


Very evocative language. I take it you mean profit? That’s why businesses exist, to make money. We can’t run the world as a charity. That’s our fault maybe, but that’s just the way it is until something better comes along.


We see our hospitals, roads, schools, run into the ground all in the name of cost cutting, yet we pay more taxes than ever.
We are told that there is just no money left, yet we wittness the insane acts our government are preforming by trying to bail out banks to the tune of hundred of billions of dollars.


Hospitals still exist in their thousands, as do schools and universities and colleges and every other educational and support service. They might have to tighten their belts, but most will still exist after all this has blown over. That’s the way it has always been: a problem arises, we struggle under it, and then we solve it. That’s why we are not living in caves anymore.


I you also saying because I have encounters with the Nordic I should not have an opinion of my own?


Actually, and it might have escaped your notice, I am maintaining a viewpoint that you have not had contact with any type of alien. In my opinion, I believe you are using this site as a soapbox with which to announce your embitterment with humanity. Also, that you are relatively knew to the bewildering world of conspiracy and mystery, as is exhibited by your almost breathless haste to add as many topics to this thread as possible. You find them not only empowering, but a convenient cover behind which you can write down your grievances.

Are aliens directly involved in your life? About as much as they are in mine.


You know the saying Evil breeds when good men stand and do nothing.


And what are you doing exactly to alleviate the world’s ills? Nothing, that’s what, and if anything, you’re making it worse by telling us that we are universally unliked:


She also told me that not all Alien races have good intention for humans and some consider us untrustable and overly savage



she also said that according to most races humen are not worth saving



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


Beamish I give up on you. You and people like you are the reason the world is such a mess today. blind fools who dance to the tune of others.

you missed my point about business profit is healthy put not at the cost of peoples health or life but I guess you are to blind to see this too.

You most likely believe that the sweetner pill you but in your tea is safe too
because after all it been approved by the government.

And if Iraq did not have any oil we would still have gone in to get Saddam because after all he did have those weapon of mass destruction.

And lets not forget that Bin Laden did manage from his cave to strike to very heart of America.sure wonder if he to managed to sent the texts to the jewish workers and tell them to stay away from the world trade tower that day.
you are the one living in a unreal world.
but if you are happy stay there as the real world is a little more scary





[edit on 21-1-2009 by smokingman2006]

[edit on 21-1-2009 by smokingman2006]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


reply to post by smokingman2006
 


Don't me come over there and smack you both upside your heads, Play nice now......

Just agree to disagree and get on living each day gracefully and honestly and as caring to not only to yourselves but to your families as well , and try to care as much about everyother Human being as you both can.
There are going to be differences of opinion, ( don't even get me started on mine as I'll have to smack the back of my own head as well).
Give and opinion but give understanding and love even if you disagree, Thats where to the true path to enlightenment lies. and with truth lies salvation.
( Oh my Lord I'm getting religeous) can't be having that, Pass the fizzy brainrot pop....





posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by smokingman2006
 



Beamish I give up on you.


Please do. That attitude is perfectly in keeping with your “Pleiadian” friends, isn’t it? To give up on someone or, in their case, an entire race? I will not, however, stop posting rational comments and opinions on threads of yours that deal with this issue.

And if you hit the Ignore button? Well, that’ll say more about you than me.


You and people like you are the reason the world is such a mess today. blind fools who dance to the tune of others.


Firstly do not call me a fool. I am not the one making outlandish and unprovable claims. And now it’s my fault? How do you classify me? Rational? Questioning? Reasonable? Logical?

Or is it simply unbeliever.


you missed my point about business profit is healthy put not at the cost of peoples health or life but I guess you are to blind to see this too.


You are generalizing horrendously, just like your example of increasing mistakes in British hospitals. I am not blind to anything. I take everything at face value until I draw a conclusion based on facts, common sense and reality.


You most likely believe that the sweetner pill you but in your tea is safe too
because after all it been approved by the government.


There, in that single quote, is my entire argument confirmed.

You don’t trust anyone do you?

And for your information, sometimes I like a sweet cup of tea, sometimes not, but when I do I only use sugar.


And if Iraq did not have any oil we would still have gone in to get Saddam because after all he did have those weapon of mass destruction.


I agree that the second Iraqi war was undertaken for strategic and tactical reasons. That has been all but proven. Your sarcasm was lost on me.


And lets not forget that Bin Laden did manage from his cave to strike to very heart of America.sure wonder if he to managed to sent the texts to the jewish workers and tell them to stay away from the world trade tower that day.


Meaning 9/11 was an inside job? More than likely correct, and a massive crime against humanity it was if true. Are you trying to give examples as to what I believe, or how wrong I am?


you are the one living in a unreal world.
but if you are happy stay there as the real world is a little more scary


I respectfully disagree. I am very much rooted in reality. I believe your posts are not, and have asked several times, as have many others, for some kind of substantiation for your claims. Photos and the like have been dismissed by you as not appropriate, and to some extent I agree. There are far too many hoaxes out there, aren’t there? Even when we ask for a new or hitherto unique piece of evidence from your “contact”, ie. a innovative, groundbreaking concept, or verifiable scientific tidbit, something non-tangible but intriguingly challenging, we are fobbed off with weak excuses. Continually. All we get are rehashes of theories and mythology and philosophy that are widely available.

Do me a favour; tell “Amizarac” that your mission has failed miserably. You are talking to four to five people at most, and two of them have rejected your story.

Her plan is not working.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by DataWraith
 


My apologies Datawraith, if my posts come across as confrontational, but, well, they are supposed to be!

Yes, we should discuss and not argue, but sometimes it is not easy to maintain a level head when confronted with something you feel right at your core is not true.

Pass me the fizzy brain juice, too. Maybe it'll make me see things in a different light. In fact, make it a large one.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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Beamish

I would never use the ignore button to free up my life of your rants


unlike you time is on my side April is only around the corner and once people start seeing a bright red object in our skyline my task will be easy.

Till then I can only keep preparing.

You would not believe how hard it is to obtain a home smelter that heats to 5000 Degrees.

I now have all the information that I need to make my own monatomic powder and exactly how it is to be taken and with what,

so my mission is far from over and I will continue to awaken as many along the way as possible for your infomation there are many in contact with me from this board who are not posting on the threads.

Data

you are right lets keep it civil
its very hard as I watch CNBC and see that our economies are on the very
brink of folding and those idiots are bailing private companies with public money and very little inside vision of the knock on effect this will have very shortly,
peace & hope

[edit on 21-1-2009 by smokingman2006]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 11:06 AM
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Let's allagreethat this is a discussion and we all are going to have different opinions, and do as friend data suggests; kindly disagree but still doing it with courtesy and respect for our fellow humans tinged with a little love and compassion. thank you all.


back on topic: I see both sides from my perch on the fence, and yes, I can see where our society,et al, has room for tremendously major improvement, just as we do have a few good points worth noticing;

also consider that we are in the gray area, so proof is an oxymoronic statement, yet many tidbits of good factualinfo have been displayed;

I applaud data for trying to detox his system and becoming more in control of his body and thoughts; many more need to do this also, as I have, yet still it is but a tiny drop in an enormous bucket;

if we really look at the state of the world, we can make a difference; but you have to get actively involved,yes, butt into someone's business when they are doing wrong; if you just walk by you are contributing to the negativity.

it is up to us to make a difference.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by the seeker_713g
 


I've always found you full of wisdom, and this post just proves it. Wonderful words,

We need to shine our lights. There are many good people, but they have apathy in the face of so much thats needing change, so many problems. They make it that way deliberately of course. But the lampshade of apathy doesn't pull to us the help and respect we need right now. There are so many suffering.
We need to treat each day as if its all there is and try to lighten each others loads and bring aid, warmth and joy to others.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by smokingman2006
 



I would never use the ignore button to free up my life of your rants


I do not rant. I post objections to your claims.


unlike you time is on my side April is only around the corner and once people start seeing a bright red object in our skyline my task will be easy.


So time is not on my side? Why is this? Is it because your “mass” will be visible and will somehow be constituted as “evidence” and therefore I will have to honour my promise to leave ATS if you do produce evidence? If that’s the case, believe me I’m not worried how much longer I’ve got on these boards.


You would not believe how hard it is to obtain a home smelter that heats to 5000 Degrees.
I now have all the information that I need to make my own monatomic powder and exactly how it is to be taken and with what,


You are going to manufacture your own monoatomic gold? (My emphasis):


my contact also told me that a very ruthless group of human have made a deal with a different race of alien which envolves them getting safe passage off Earth in exchange for hundreds of tons of gold bullions which this other race uses in an mono atomic form in their everyday life.



Interestinggg Funny you mention Nibiru that is the planet where the sellouts are distined for the one that feeds of gold



monatomic whitepowder is what the elite class take to give them the edge of the rest of us this was originally given to a selected few humans by the anunnaki the selected few then became leaders and kings when the anunnaki left earth.


Most of your previous mentions of this powder have been in relation to “the bad guys”. And now you are going to take it. Have you changed sides?


the only human taking it today are using it solely for financial gain and power.


Precisely.

I would strongly suggest that you do not even begin to try and manufacture this material. Playing with furnaces that produce such immense heat without special training is not only foolhardy, it’s damn well dangerous. And as to your insisting that you have the correct “formula”, let me finish with another quote of yours:


WARNING THERE IS NO CURRENT SAFE MONATOMIC POWDER AVAILABLE ON SELL ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET YET AND CURRENT STOCKS FOUND ON INTERNET ARE TAINTED OR FAKES PLEASE BE WARNED AND SAVE YOUR MONEY AND LIFE


P.S. If you do have the correct manufacturing method, why keep it to yourself?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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2012!!! Im ready for it. Lets go! Whose coming with me!?!?!



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by Wisen Heimer
2012!!! Im ready for it. Lets go! Whose coming with me!?!?!


whoa, big fellow, let's not rush it; at my age
I like enjoying every minute of every day, still a lot of things left on my list, lol, a lot of topics to discuss and many people to meet and perhaps share a little light and positivity with; after all, the journey is eternal, so let's enjoy this chapter a little bit more, shall we?



seeker



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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Well... good to see that I have been kindly remembered here as well...

Hi to all my friends, and a brief post with the limited time I have right now:

While what we call a seemingly "lost" experiment as the Human race might seem sometimes, and as "evil" as some effects and facets of our experience in this world might be to the onlooker or "victim", the deeper realities that pervade everything we perceive as our own and that give birth to our experience and everything it encloses, respond to deeper values, deeper aspects of the Self and of Being that cannot be simply dismissed as human creation, and therefore flawed or destined to harsh judgment and possible punishment.

In short: there is more than meets the eye here folks, and no "punishment" or dark future will befall Human kind.

So, there is NO need whatsoever to "save" ourselves, at least not anymore than the work and impetus that is taking place at deeper levels of our own nature, created and designed for ourselves BY ourselves and some "Divine" help...

I don't care if even aliens can come up with less-than-generous lines of judgment towards our experience, since we are free and able to come up with our own answers and conclusions, and because we ARE in the midst of new changes, new models and a fresher way of approaching existence that will make all the "growing pains" worthwhile.

So, Smokingman, my friend, we can easily say that there is no need to save us thank you very much, in spite of "their" concern. The "divine", deeper aspects of ourselves allow us to learn and EVOLVE in a way, from all we do and all our "mistakes". It is our right, duty and prerogative. All this however, happens and originates at deeper levels of our "personal" and collective reality that should be well and amply explored by all if further and more concrete decisions and visions are desired.

There is a very definite line that separates the approach of a joint venture, a desire to aid and support while working "together", and a very different attitude of moral superiority and separation that can be concluded as the connotation implied in the concept of "having to be saved" by others. Here is where my problems could reside with an experience with an interlocutor... one which may need further clarification?

Good to be back, and hope to rejoin the discussion(s) soon...



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


Beamish I have being asked to produce this by my friends and hand it out to the selected awakened ones in the near future real leadership will be needed amongst the people from truthers to combat the lie and deception currently weaved into our system.

Nice of you to worry about my safety but I do have a brain and would only attemp this under safe conditions.
Yes all my warnings are correct their is no safe Mana ( monatomic P ) out there at present the real stuff made at present is made in labs under secure condition similar to a mint and send to the 1% of the 1% of the 1% which is less than seven thousand people this group are the elite secret class who have the ability to sway almost everything of great importance on our planet.
Yes I already see your reply I am nothing more than a paranoid fool who disturst everyone.
but if that is what you are thinking then you my well learnt friend are already under the spell of the ruling class and fully except this great deception as everyday fact......



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