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Iran thwarts CIA-backed regime change plot

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posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by pavil
 


Hello Pavil,
For what it's worth I'm not comparing the fifties to today. I would imagine most people have no idea who Mohammed Mosaddeq was or that he was an Iranian Prime Minister. It is a fact that the USA and GBR had him and his government overthrown (coup) because he wanted to nationalize Iran's oil production. Prior to his election BP (British Petroleum) ran the Iranian oil concession.

So he was taken down and was lucky that he was not killed like his help was. As a result the Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was installed as dictator. He was a real bad guy but BP was able to stick around thanks to the coup. Keep in mind Iran was Persia till around 1935 so a lot happened there.

I realize you know this information but maybe someone here is? To me looking at the past allows me to see the progression of an event or allows me to see the bigger picture. No matter how far I go back in history while following European man trouble always comes up. We can't help it I suppose. We must dominate everything and when we pick an area clean we move to the next.

This thread is about a "New Iranian Coup" and I believe it happened since we have already done it at least once so it is not a reach that we would try it again. Our weapons are more powerful and our energy needs have increased but ultimately we are the same. Our goals and methods remain unchanged. If we would stage a Coup then we would do it now as well.

Since all wars are related directly to resource domination and depletion I stopped looking at the causes of war since there is only one real cause known as RESOURCES. This is why I posted. Many people believe that what we see has everything to do with groups like Hamas and others. In reality those groups serve many purposes but people are shocked to learn that Hamas was made by Israel.

Sometimes people start to wonder what is going on over there. We put a dictator in Iran and put one in Iraq too. Those places had different names years ago as well. What gives is that the USA gave weapons to Saddam and Israel gave weapons to Iran. Iran and Iraq had a war. Here I'm explaining that the USA and GBR are INTO EVERYTHING. At the root of the USA are RESOURCES.




posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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Just reading through your other comments.

I think you gang analogy is right on the money. But I might want to supplement some of your points.

It's easy to cherry pick through history and isolate incidents or turning points and go "Aha!” But when we overview countries, millions of people, changes in regimes and their thinking, new influences, etc - it's hard to just say "this was a direct response to this" or “this fulfilled this need."

With oil and the Middle East, the US and Britain, not to underplay the equally thirsty French, Germans, Dutch and others, want access to the oilfields, no question. They feel they are unfairly controlled by a bunch of childlike but dangerous savages who have to be in turn, humoured, flattered, threatened, and so on, depending on their mood, the time of day, something that just happened, the phase of the moon, etc.

What I'm trying to say is that world situations and the political responses are multi-factorial and constantly in flux. No simple answers and analogies only go so far.

The US may decide one year installing a co-operative easy to manipulate puppet government is a solution for easy access to a desired resource. A new administration may find the relationship onerous and say "To Hell with this" and make different move on the chessboard. A decade later the situation may change and priorities shift.

The US may want to maintain it's position as top dog, but sometimes this means controlling the neighbourhood with an iron fist, and at other times with the velvet glove.

It can be cheaper just to cut an advantageous resource deal and let a country do it’s own thing. This is what the arrangement with Canada, where I live. We are the primary source of US oil, and we have our own sandbox government. The US just raps our knuckles when it feels we are getting out of line. In return we have our autonomy and can play at being low level big shots on the international stage.

Sometimes the US actually makes moves that turns out to be advantageous for the little guys. It’s not always as simple as oppressor and victim.

Pretty much every Iranian I've ever known feels the Shah's regime, even with the ugly back story of it’s installation, turned out to be a good time for the country. Modern Iranians aren't belligerent by nature. Like may Muslim populations, they gravitate towards and respond best to a benign paternalism. The Shah may have been a crook, but he was their crook. We’ll never know how another government would have evolved. Maybe they would have been worse. A 1980 liberating Robert Mugabe can turn into a dictator given time and the opportunity. Castro 1959 is not Castro 2009.

My point I’m getting to in a rambling way – the predominantly Muslim Middle East has been blessed with more oil than anyone. Those who want it have done their best to gain controlled access to this vast resource at a preferred price.

But we should not delude ourselves that even if the West had played honourably and fairly that there would be no abuse of power and corruption and that everyone would have lived happily ever after. It never seems to work out that way. The US is greedy, manipulative and unethical. Can we be certain that the locals or others with even less scruples and sense of fair play would be running the show if the West had been marginalized in the Middle East.

Imagine a world where the Saudi royal family ruled the roost, for example.


Mike F



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Hello Mike,
Once again you are correct but it is difficult to compress 100 years or so of history from several different points of view. First I divorce myself from being an American so I can be more critical in my view of America. Here the propaganda generally paints our resource competitors and suppliers as thugs, villains, savages, depraved religious fanatics ad nauseam. Naturally the same must be true from the other perspectives. Americans are fat, lazy, greedy depraved religious fanatics ad nauseam.

The gang analogy is not my invention but that of one Robert Newman who made a satirical video that poked fun at our lack of understanding of the history of oil and the ramifications of its use...

Robert Newman's History of Oil

I wound up watching this due to my fascination with history and my involvement in the energy industries. Over the years resource depletion becomes more and more obvious as we become more and more willing to stoop to ever lower levels of deceit to ensure the flow of petroleum products.

I doubt any of us will willingly change the trajectory of our nation if we could only a fraction of us will survive since we are post industrial and beyond the Earth's carrying capacity. This is why we keep telling ourselves that the end justifies the means so long as the oil flows but then all one needs to do is see some empirical evidence and nothing ever looks the same again.

Enter exhibit A) Visualization of oil saturation in Ghawar, with focus region on 'Ain Dar and Shedgum regions at northern end. This was the biggest oil well in the world and Saudi Arabia's crown jewel. This saturation map is dated 2004 and so is even more depleted now. The red is oil, the blue/green area is sweepable and the blue is pumped in water to float the oil out. The biggest oil well in the world's decline hammers home the end of the industrial era.



This is why the USA is hell bent on securing Iran and all of the rest. No religions, no revenge no pretenses just resource domination till damnation. Naturally the wheels are coming off the car as we speed to the edge of extinction. The Israelis are punishing the Palestinians but the Iranians don't seem to take the bait. Content to hold their ground they will wait till the Israelis punch themselves out.

Now the USA is talking about attacking Pakistan and it clearly looks as though we have decided to go along with religious persecution as a means to an end. It is the same thing over and over again. Determine the RESOURCE, create conflict while daemonizing the leaders of the indigenous population, crush them and enjoy the spoils of war.

Till the resources are fully depleted or the population of the Earth reduces itself this state of affairs will exist and that is a harsh pill to swallow. I guess my concerns are relative since nothing lasts forever, I simply detest the dishonesty and trickery people are forced to endure when we can take nothing with us on the way out.

PAX A_M



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by Snisha
 


I came to ATS to make baseless accusations...Just like the Iranians who said they uncovered a CIA plot in their country. Perhaps, I'll provide evidence to you when the Iranians take their charges to an international court with Jurisdiction over the matter. Until then we'll both play this out in the court of public opinion, aka Conspiracy themed web-sites. If I am wrong, then none of these people has anything to worry about, right?

Pahlavi and/or the Qajar and these GangBangers and BikerGangs and other hidden or unknown aspects of their wanna-be shadow government in waiting are about to pay the heaviest price. They are murderers, liars and thieves. And since you know so much, you know this. And you know that Reza Pahlavi's presence in this country, in and of itself, is evidence of a conspiracy to commit a heinous crime. No Shah should be in America.

It's funny...the Iranian's accuse the CIA and you all believe it. I accuse the former occupants of the Peacock Throne, former Soviets and rouge elements within the US of a massive subversion plot to overthrow the world order and everyone wants evidence. Remeber what the cities looked like in the 60s and 70s and 80s, the Shah and Soviets and their allies did that...is that evidence enough?

I wonder...what kind of people really frequent this site?


PS...Wasn't there a murder and cover-up down in Panther Burn back in the 70s? I know you kill a lot of people, but his was a Cop, Remeber? Why don't you come clean and tell us all the details about the murder. You are specialists in the sacred art of the murder and the cover-up. When I was last down there, I remember someone boasting to me about his skill at killing.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by huckfinn]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by huckfinn]



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by huckfinn
 


That massive subversion plot you mentioned already happened in the year 2000 when Saddam switched his USD holdings to the EURO. That one change brought in the possibility that the OPEC nations could jump to other non US currencies as well. This is when George Bush announced his short list of "Axis of Evil" countries and the beatings began. You do realize this I'm sure as well as there are no "Hydrogen Pools" available to replace our dependence on FOSSIL FUEL.

Here was what we were looking at and I'm sure you see the problem...



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 


Is your chart showing that the Oil wells are becoming Water wells at an increasing rate?



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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Another interesting thread well done OP I do like reading your threads. The way I see it the US authorities are always sticking their noses in other countries business.

I believe it would be in the best intersts for its citizens and much better for them to sort out their own problems before interfering with other peoples.



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by huckfinn
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 

Is your chart showing that the Oil wells are becoming Water wells at an increasing rate?

Water is pumped into a well to float the oil up. Over time the saturation between oil and water rises also. As a result maturing wells combined with saturation from water injection become more energy intensive to operate and the wells overall EROEI drops.

Once the EROEI gets near 1:1 the well is toast. Since there is no replacement for the Saudi well Ghawar and infrastructure development of and around new wells lags well behind the discovery we are facing a problem larger than Ghawar itself. Sure there are conspiracies to make note of but when you see companies developing massive deep drilling rigs for a greater cost then the EROEI of what they would recover would be that is a RED FLAG.

Watch Modern Marvels and look for the big drilling rigs there. If companies like BP are resorting to drastic measures to recover the last drops of ancient sunlight what does that tell you? Once the consumption rate of a given resource matches or surpasses the production rate of that resource we (humanity) can no longer grow and expand.

These days to pump up the figures all of the non-petroleum liquids age being added into the oil production totals. Goal to oil or coal to gas and even biomass all get included in total liquids. Worse than that our nuclear energy depends on fossil fuel as well. Mines don't work well without tremendous logistics and energy from diesel, hydro and coal. Even mines are subjects of EROEI.

You can't get something for nothing and even if you wanted to you can't even break even... Heck the only reason there are over 6.5 billion of us is because of the OIL. I posted this image before and clearly it is no great news for anyone at all.




No that thing in the image is not the Ride called Kinda Ka @ 6 Flags!!

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by franspeakfree
Another interesting thread well done OP I do like reading your threads. The way I see it the US authorities are always sticking their noses in other countries business.

I believe it would be in the best intersts for its citizens and much better for them to sort out their own problems before interfering with other peoples.


Let me ask you this...

If you no longer have heat at home (cold area) or fuel for your car will you be all that concerned about who had to die in the Mideast or just happy to turn the heat back on and go to the store? Think hard on it and what the real options are and you will be amazed at what you may be willing to accept.



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by huckfinn
reply to post by Snisha
 


PS...Wasn't there a murder and cover-up down in Panther Burn back in the 70s? I know you kill a lot of people, but his was a Cop, Remeber? Why don't you come clean and tell us all the details about the murder. You are specialists in the sacred art of the murder and the cover-up. When I was last down there, I remember someone boasting to me about his skill at killing.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by huckfinn]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by huckfinn]


Sir I shall not dignify ANY further presumption of a reasonable verbal discourse with you. Your absolute FAILURE to cite even a shred of evidence of a "Secret Iranian Embassy" or even a substantial grouping of Iranians in Panther Burn,MS (population 261) or Hollandale Mississippi (pop.3437) is of no great wonder to me.

Your implication that I have killed multiple people merely because I was born in Mississippi now stands for ALL within this forum to behold as a testament to your deficient intellect and inability to address and deliver verifiable *FACTS* or at the very least, a consistent semi-logical rant.

You know nothing of me sir! My age, race, political inclinations, etc. are ALL unknown to you!!! And yet you blatantly imply that I should "come clean" about my involvement in the murder of a policeman in Panther Burn in the 70's???

Sorry there guy, cop killing is not a practice that I subscribe to. Nor is killing ANY person because of their ethnicity, religion, political affiliation, favorite food or any other number of other little categorizations people tend to attempt to affix to others. I would only resort to implementing the force of death on a person when there was no other alternative and my life was in danger.

Why don't YOU come clean and admit that you are nothing more than a gaumless BIGOT with a unchecked tendency to haphazardly lash out at that which you fail to understand.

"A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"~~~Oscar Wilde



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 


A good point - but one which pre-supposes that no new technologies will exist or are being developed.

Let's not forget that humans are VERY adaptable, and when a crisis looms we are at our most imaginative and efficient.



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 


A good point - but one which pre-supposes that no new technologies will exist or are being developed.

Let's not forget that humans are VERY adaptable, and when a crisis looms we are at our most imaginative and efficient.


There I asked a question that was rhetorical in nature. The situation was that the person would no longer have the energy depended on and to try to imagine that. If it took more death in the Mideast to get the power back on at home would it be worth it??



posted on Jan, 15 2009 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 


I don't disagree with much of your post. I wouldn't just single out the European man, it's the whole developed world that does it, the West was just first to get so developed.

Of course it's all about the Oil....who would care a rat's _ _ _ about most of the Middle East if it wasn't for the black gold beneath the surface there? Till we wean ourselves off fossil fuel, all the developed world will vie for this most precious of resource. Countries will try to improve their "stake" in the area, I don't think that will come as a shock to many.

The point I was making is that we are not actively arming the opposition with weapons nor attempting a direct overthrow of the Iran.



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Alpha_Magnum

Let me ask you this...

If you no longer have heat at home (cold area) or fuel for your car will you be all that concerned about who had to die in the Mideast or just happy to turn the heat back on and go to the store? Think hard on it and what the real options are and you will be amazed at what you may be willing to accept.





Hey, I'm with you on this 100%. Also want to add that you've pushed me over the edge in realizing how important oil control has become in international political maneouvering.

As you pointed out water is another component of the bigger picture.
The region does not have sufficient water for irrigation and human consumption. Fresh water or more importantly the lack of it -
will be affecting billions of people and impacting on regional boundaries more significantly in the very near future.

Much of the Middle East jockeying behind the scenes with Israel and elsewhere already has to do with this vastly underreported issue.

The way things are moving fresh water will be the oil of the 21st Century.
We're seeing it happen in Africa, and it will become more apparent worldwide and soon.

Normally I like to provide supporting data for my claims, but my information has come mainly secondhand from friends here in Canada who do research in environmetal fields.

Trust me, you don't want to know about our water table here and what's happening to it now.

More soon


Mike F



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 06:31 AM
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Does this article appear on any MSM outlets, I searched and couldn't find it?

I am generally suspect of foreign articles, which are written in American. All of you should be as well.

The only American media source is the NYT article from 1953.



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by huckfinn
 


yes, because the MSM are really going to report that cia funded operatives have been caught by the iranians


None of the MSM are trustworthy - especially if a certain mr murdoch has a stake.



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 06:55 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


Have they released the names and backgrounds of those arrested? Can we reconstruct the network and trace these operatives to a contact within the United States?

If this did happen...I would want to know who in the United States can be connected to this.

I figure, if the CIA was clumsy enough to have their operation exposed, then finding out who sent them there from the Bush administration should be easy enough.



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by huckfinn
reply to post by budski
 

Have they released the names and backgrounds of those arrested? Can we reconstruct the network and trace these operatives to a contact within the United States?

If this did happen...I would want to know who in the United States can be connected to this.

I figure, if the CIA was clumsy enough to have their operation exposed, then finding out who sent them there from the Bush administration should be easy enough.



Untroubled by either the morality or the legality of such an unprovoked act of aggression, McCain's concern was that an attack might be a strategic failure because the Iranian Government has spread its nuclear facilities "all over Tehran and you couldn't do it in one strike ~~ Sen. John McCain".



In light of the "practical" difficulties of attacking Iran directly, Newsweek reports that "(Bush) Administration hawks are pinning their hopes on regime change in Tehran - by covert means, preferably, but by force of arms if necessary". It won't only be students of modern history who will feel a sense of deja vu after reading these words.


So, that means that Bush takes credit for a victory and the Hawaks (some gone now) take the hit for a failure. Yes, 1953 all over again but not with the swimmingly good results.



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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The US gives support to Iranians trying to initiate a regime chage, but likely so do the French, British, Saudis, and who knows who else.

The Iranians do what they can to foul up American intelligence, the Chinese have hacked into the US highest level security systems, and the Russians are all over the map. Remember a KGB bureaucrat is running the country.

Nothing new here really, it used to be called spying, and has been going on for centuries and always will.


Mike F



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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The NWO wants the oil in Iran, the 3rd largest oil field in the world and they want Iran because Iran will not deal in fiat Fed Reserve notes any more. Iran has their own non-NWO currency and getting rich and powerful because they are not playing ball with the NWO. Good for them! I sincerely believe the US needs to end the illegal, unconstitutional, private, non-federal Fed Reserve now! and break the hold the NWO's banking cartel has on the US. Stop the Fed! End the NWO!



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