Pope declares 'holy war' against people who falsely claim to have seen the Virgin Mary

The Pope is declaring a 'holy war' against people who claim falsely that the Virgin Mary is appearing to them.
He will attempt to snuff out an explosion of bogus heavenly apparitions with new guidelines to help bishops root out frauds.
Benedict XVI plans to publish criteria to help them distinguish between true and false claims of visions of Jesus and the Virgin Mary, messages, stigmata - the appearances of the five wounds of Christ - and weeping or bleeding statues.

In some cases exorcists will be used to determine if a credible apparition is 'divine' origin or 'demonic'.
The guidelines will be published by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
The Pope is said to be deeply concerned by the explosion in the number of pseudo-mystics who, claiming a direct line to God, set themselves
Makes me wonder if people all over the world are seeing visions because of how our world is in crisis.
www.dailymail.co.uk...

reply to post by angelsrforever

Benedict XVI plans to publish criteria to help them distinguish between true and false claims of visions of Jesus and the Virgin Mary, messages, stigmata - the appearances of the five wounds of Christ - and weeping or bleeding statues.

I would hardly call that a “Holy War"

I think the title is a bit sensationalized to grab people’s attention.

So if I see the Blessed Mother in my morning cereal, will the Inquisition show up at my door? Or at the very least a nun with a nasty disposition and a metal ruler?

Naw no inquisition. They just need to rule out phenomena like paradoilia that permeates mystic culture. You know, seeing stuff in clouds or grilled cheese. The Church is quite rigorous when it comes to these sorts of things because accepting something modern tangible miracle without investigation would not be beneficial to the Church's image. There aren't more visions because the world is going to hell-in-a-handbasket. There are more visions because there are more people in the world and there is more technological ability to communicate these so-called 'visions'. Not to say they couldn't happen, though.

I think they should start by fixing their own false claims. I think someone claiming to see the Virgin Mary is a bit minor compared to these.

List of claims by the RCC and church.

www.lightministries.com...

sources quoted in the link, along with the direct quotes. I'm just going to post the outline of the claims.

1. The Pope is God On This Earth
   
2. The Pope is Immortal
   
3. The Pope is Infallible
   
4. The Pope's Crown Bears This Inscription(Blessed Peter is seen to have been constituted vicar of the son of God on the earth.)
   
5. The Pope Has All Power in Heaven and Earth and Can Change Divine Laws
   
6. The Pope Can Change, Add to, or Take Away From, and His Word is Greater than the Holy Scriptures
   
7. All People Must Be Subject to the Authority of the Pope in Order to be in God's True Church
   
8. All Who Separate From the Control of the Pope are Without Christ
   
9. All People Must Be Subject to the Authority of the Pope in Order to be Saved
   
10. Even if the Pope is in Error or Were Evil, He Still Holds Power Over All Christ's Faithful!
    
11. The Pope is Christ's Replacement (Vicar or Vicegerent) on Earth
    
12. Supreme Papal Authority Comes From the Law of the Caesars
    
    

reply to post by SLAYER69


I dunno, he wants to find out if the true visions are "holy" or "demonic." He would probably have them rid the "demonic" ones so... One could say it was sort of a holy war but mostly yeah you're right. But, just sit back and look at what I first said and let your imagination run wild. I would love to see some exorcism of demonic statue bloopers.

reply to post by Boogley


Also I can see some are already jumping on the anti catholic theme.
Here we go, I'll sit back and watch the show

The pope is not God. If you are even catholic then you know as a catholic our belief is faith in our God that through divine intervention the pope makes decisions for the catholic faith. Again through divine intervention.

Originally posted by angelsrforever
The pope is not God. If you are even catholic then you know as a catholic our belief is faith in our God that through divine intervention the pope makes decisions for the catholic faith. Again through divine intervention.

www.lightministries.com...

"Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth." Christopher Marcellus in Oration addressing Pope Julius II, in Fifth Lateran Council, Session IV (1512), Council Edition. Colm. Agrip. 1618, (Sacrorum Conciliorum, J.D. Mansi (ed.), Vol. 32, col. 761), (also quoted in History of the Councils, vol. XIV, col 109, by Labbe and Cossart).

"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." The Gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, Cum. Inter, title 14, chapter 4, "Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium", Column 140, Paris, 1685. (In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam" (“Our Lord God the Pope”) can be found in column 153).

"...the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who being God, cannot be judged by man." Pope Nicholas I, quoted in History of the Councils, vol. IX, Dist.: 96, Can 7, "Satis Evidentur Decret Gratian Primer Para", by Labbe and Cossart.


But really, that isn't the one that bothers me the most.

"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him." St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 1: "There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope").

So much for the truth setting us free huh? So free, that we should even serve Satan if the pope tells us to. You are free - to do as we tell you!

So much for good trees not bringing for corrupted fruit.



I could really care less if some thinks they seen the virgin mary in comparison to these claims. Debunking things that most people don't even care about - meh. Guess pointing fingers towards other is a good way of keeping people from looking at their own house.


[edit on 13-1-2009 by badmedia]

Marian mysticism in all its forms fascinates me. Anyone have any links to good historical on-line pieces about such phenomenon? I like scholarly stuff but even more amaturish writing is good. Thanks in advance.

reply to post by badmedia


Why do you keep posting that lame Link?
If people want to believe what they want to, who are you to say anything about it?
Are you the thought police?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Why do you keep posting that lame Link?
If people want to believe what they want to, who are you to say anything about it?

You might have a point - if this weren't a discussion forum where people share their opinions.

I didn't come knocking on your door and invite myself in. I just gave my opinion on a public forum. IMO, those claims are in more need of clarification than Virgin Mary sightings. The OP disagreed with something, so I posted further clarification.

Are you the thought police?

Wish I had a mirror right about now.

reply to post by badmedia


Hi,

I appreciate your taking the time to dig out the quotes from the site.

I will spend some time trying to verify the claims made on the site, but it should be remembered that a number of the quotes you offered were not by people or bodies that are considered to be authoritative by the Church and are certainly not Church teachings.

Most importantly, the Popes never crowned bears. That would be highly dangerous.

I'll get back to you after I do some research.

Eric

**Edit: quickly found a site refuting much of what was posted about Papal claims of divinity: www.geoffhorton.com...

[edit on 13-1-2009 by EricD]

Originally posted by EricD
reply to post by badmedia

 

Hi,

I appreciate your taking the time to dig out the quotes from the site.

I will spend some time trying to verify the claims made on the site, but it should be remembered that a number of the quotes you offered were not by people or bodies that are considered to be authoritative by the Church and are certainly not Church teachings.

Most importantly, the Popes never crowned bears. That would be highly dangerous.

I'll get back to you after I do some research.

Eric

**Edit: quickly found a site refuting much of what was posted about Papal claims of divinity: www.geoffhorton.com...

Sorry, the crown thing is an inscription written in latin and what I posted after is the english translation. I almost left that one off the list simply because it needed such a long explanation. Guess I should have as it looks like it lead to confusion there. I didn't mean it crowned bears.

Thanks for the link, I guess people can make up their own minds. Looks like it's going to turn into a he said, she said type deal, which makes me wish I hadn't posted it. If they dispute that was said and such, then I will give them the benefit of the doubt regardless.

Originally posted by Resinveins
So if I see the Blessed Mother in my morning cereal, will the Inquisition show up at my door? Or at the very least a nun with a nasty disposition and a metal ruler?

Thank you for putting a smile on my face. "a nasty disposition"....I'm still laughing...


Peace