Iraq Declares Christmas a National Holiday, page 3

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reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:04 PM by West Coast

Originally posted by DJMessiah

And yet if Muslims tried to have Eid become a National holiday here in the US, people cry that we're not "assimilating" and trying to "Islamicise" the US.

Gotta love hypocrites.

Let us call a spade a spade. Islam does not have that great of a reception around in the modern world today, largely because of the extremists who use it for their own sick demented cause. This is not fair, sure. But the ME is not doing anything to help tharwt this epidemic. Again, it is how islam is perceived around the world, that is why it recieves the bad publicity.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:05 PM by GradyPhilpott

reply to post by DJMessiah

Regardless of your generalization, I do believe that people are granted time off for their respective religious holidays in the US, even if those holidays are not granted official national status.

Christmas in the US is also as much a secular holiday as it is a religious one and is probably celebrated by as many unbelievers as it is by Christians, so your hypocritical swipe at the "hypocrites" doesn't carry much weight.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:07 PM by Styki

Isn't this world crazy?

Iraq declares Christmas a national holiday and we have to call it winter break.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:08 PM by masonwatcher

reply to post by West Coast

Maybe you do not see the benefits of a more open Iraq that takes even the minoritys in its country seriously... A more open minded middle east is what should be strived for, this is the only way to fight extreme fundamentalists. This is a positive step forward for not only Iraq, but the greater middle east.

You are suggesting there was a problem of discrimination of minorities when there wasn't one. Iraq was a secular state with less religious discrimination than in Britain or the US. Most holidays in Iraq was either secular or basic Muslim holidays. In the whole world only the religious holidays of the primary religion is celebrated. If all religions in any country are celebrated, it would be holiday in every month!

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:11 PM by masonwatcher

reply to post by West Coast

Let us call a spade a spade. Islam does not have that great of a reception around in the modern world today, largely because of the extremists who use it for their own sick demented cause. This is not fair, sure. But the ME is not doing anything to help tharwt this epidemic.

Let us call a spade a spade, the west coast is not the world. You assume your prejudice is universal when in fact it is unique to you and your ilk.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:12 PM by DJMessiah

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Regardless of your generalization, I do believe that people are granted time off for their respective religious holidays in the US, even if those holidays are not granted official national status.

I tried, but apparently, my University doesn't consider Eid a "holiday."

Christmas in the US is also as much a secular holiday as it is a religious one and is probably celebrated by as many unbelievers as it is by Christians, so your hypocritical swipe at the "hypocrites" doesn't carry much weight.

I'm sure non-Christian people will not turn down the chance to get the day off from work or classes on Christmas, but I doubt the numbers of non-Christians celebrating it are actually as much as the number of Christians. Unless shopping counts as a celebration.

My comment is only hypocritical if I wrote against Christmas in Iraq, so would you care to show me where I did?

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:13 PM by GradyPhilpott

Some people are trying to make this argument about what occurred before Saddam was deposed and what has happened since, when the article that was cited for this thread makes clear that the crimes in question which were committed against the Iraqi Christians occurred after his fall.

However uninvolved Saddam might have been in the religious affairs of the people of Iraq, he was not a good man. He was a brutal and vicious dictator who murdered and tortured hundreds of thousands, including the gassing of innocent Kurds.

A thread extolling the virtues of the benevolent and religiously-tolerant dictator Saddam might be in order for those who find that to be a more interesting topic.

[edit on 2009/1/13 by GradyPhilpott]

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:16 PM by masonwatcher

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

Regardless of your generalization, I do believe that people are granted time off for their respective religious holidays in the US, even if those holidays are not granted official national status.

The same goes for just about every Muslim country on the planet. Even non-Muslims are allowed to drink in their own residences without prejudice as long as they don't come on the streets drunk.

I have driven through some towns in the US where the towns are dry. The police kick in doors to arrest people enjoying drinks. Talk about puritanical religious intolerance, jeeeesh!

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:17 PM by GradyPhilpott

reply to post by masonwatcher

You seem to be intent on derailing this thread for your own intentions.

I would ask you to begin a thread of your own, if the topic of this thread does not please you.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:18 PM by West Coast

Originally posted by masonwatcher
You are suggesting there was a problem of discrimination of minorities when there wasn't one. Iraq was a secular state with less religious discrimination than in Britain or the US. Most holidays in Iraq was either secular or basic Muslim holidays. In the whole world only the religious holidays of the primary religion is celebrated. If all religions in any country are celebrated, it would be holiday in every month!

You are missing the point. A more accepting benevolent Iraq is the point. Do you not see a more open minded Iraq as beneficial to the world wide community? Please clarify if this is what you meant.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:20 PM by masonwatcher

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

A thread extolling the virtues of the benevolent and religiously-tolerant dictator Saddam might be in order for those who find that to be a more interesting topic.

Don't be obtuse. He did a lot of bad things but he built up his country, demanded women get the same education as men and was secular. Everyone had to be loyal to him despite religion, sex or creed. He was far more complex than the ridicules propaganda you readily imbibed.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:20 PM by West Coast

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Let us call a spade a spade, the west coast is not the world.

My name is not up for arguement here.

You assume your prejudice is universal when in fact it is unique to you and your ilk.

It is specluative nonsense on your part to suggest otherwise. We all saw just how well represented islam was when a few danish cartoonist decided to draw a few pictures...

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:31 PM by masonwatcher

reply to post by West Coast

You are missing the point. A more accepting benevolent Iraq is the point. Do you not see a more open minded Iraq as beneficial to the world wide community? Please clarify if this is what you meant.

You assume that Iraqis were closed minded. Wrong. They are more religiously accepting than Americans.

What I said was clear, however, I suspect what you are interested in are Iraqis open minded to accept the American Christian religion in a personal way. Religious discrimination is a uniquely Western experience.

Iraqis, who are predominantly Muslims, are compelled to accept religions of the Book. Religions of the Book includes Christianity and Judaism. There are also other precursor religions such as Zoroastrians and Ahmadis that are also part of the diversity. Your perspective is narrow and disregards this ancient and cultured nation and storm in with your assumptions. You have no subtlety in forming your views.

[edit on 083131p://pm3155 by masonwatcher]

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:35 PM by whaaa

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by masonwatcher
You are suggesting there was a problem of discrimination of minorities when there wasn't one. Iraq was a secular state with less religious discrimination than in Britain or the US. Most holidays in Iraq was either secular or basic Muslim holidays. In the whole world only the religious holidays of the primary religion is celebrated. If all religions in any country are celebrated, it would be holiday in every month!

You are missing the point. A more accepting benevolent Iraq is the point. Do you not see a more open minded Iraq as beneficial to the world wide community? Please clarify if this is what you meant.

And do you not see that this is much ado about nothing. A transparent attempt to show the west that things are improving in Iraq when infact a religious,
tribal civil war could break out and be more bloody than the last one. This BS will do absolutely nothing in resolving centuries of religious animosity.
This is nothing more than PR and propaganda. The Shiites, Kurds and Sunnies
are not going to kiss and make up just because some duffus recognizes Christmas.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:39 PM by GradyPhilpott

reply to post by masonwatcher

Your assertions that Islam is universally religiously tolerant is absurd.

The very crimes against Christians in Iraq mentioned in the cited article is sufficient proof of this.

What we are discussing here is the advance of religious tolerance in the current Iraq, not the Iraq of the Saddam regime.

We are not comparing the dry laws of certain jurisdictions of the US or any of the topics you have introduced to derail this thread.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:43 PM by Styki

Originally posted by masonwatcher

You assume that Iraqis were closed minded. Wrong. They are more religiously accepting than Americans.

[edit on 083131p://pm3108 by masonwatcher]

What... I say again what?

Where are you getting this from. I find this interesting. Vary interesting.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:43 PM by masonwatcher

reply to post by whaaa

Exactly.

A problem is created and a solution is provided, then alls well and victory is declared. Typical neocon smoke and mirrors.

The next invasion will be an army of evangelicals descending on an exhausted population inviting them to convert. You would think they still have a lot of work to do in the States but no they have to go and spiritually disassemble a physically destroyed country.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:46 PM by masonwatcher

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

Your assertions that Islam is universally religiously tolerant is absurd.

Did I say that? I thought we were talking about Iraq. I am sure Muslims have their version of church going clans men.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:54 PM by masonwatcher

Originally posted by Styki

Originally posted by masonwatcher

You assume that Iraqis were closed minded. Wrong. They are more religiously accepting than Americans.

[edit on 083131p://pm3108 by masonwatcher]

What... I say again what?

Where are you getting this from. I find this interesting. Vary interesting.

You said;

A more accepting benevolent Iraq is the point. Do you not see a more open minded Iraq as beneficial to the world wide community?

This presupposes a state of closed mindedness opened up by religious benevolence.

Further, having a benevolent attitude also suggests paternalism. Islam instructs that Christians and Jews are only accountable to God and no Muslim has a right to make any religious diktats to them benevolent or not. Muslims in Iraq have an acceptance of other religions. Any discord during the conflict was a product of the Salvador Option, Iranian proxy influence and the mayhem of war.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 09:00 PM by West Coast

Originally posted by masonwatcher
You assume that Iraqis were closed minded. Wrong. They are more religiously accepting than Americans.

An opinion is not fact. And I am not about to seriously take your opinion into consideration as a valid source.

What I said was clear, however, I suspect what you are interested in are Iraqis open minded to accept the American Christian religion in a personal way.

I see the practicality in Christains being able to celebrate one of their most holiest of holidays, even if it is in Iraq.

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