Caylee Anthony Case: The shovel and the pavers

Well, first of all, I don't listen to NG because I find her to be a hateful person.

Second, just as I've said to others with your same bent but different outcome, I think the idea to some how fit, or even to propose the elevation of, this disgustingly idiotic and totally failed human being (i.e. Casey Anthony) to some status of victim, intelligent player, or anything other than just a murdering loser that can best be described as the most worthless bag of bones God ever bothered stringing a gut through, is a sign of your own psychopathy that would well be addressed with analysis.

I seriously have no feeling to give leeway to ignorance on this subject.

[edit on 1-25-2009 by Valhall]

It seems the rhetoric about Lee Anthony possibly being under investigation is becoming more frequent. There is still only media coverage relying on unnamed sources concerning this issue, so no official word from LE yet.

However, this WESH article has an interesting quote in it:

www.wesh.com...



I have a feeling that this surrounds the data lost off KC's laptop. Lee was gone for more than 2 hours on the night he retrieved KC's things from TL's apartment. And I have still not read any interviews where either TL or his roommate verify that the laptop was already "blue screened" when Lee got there. That doesn't mean those statements don't exist and just haven't been released, mind you, but I'm just saying that those 2 hours and that unverified blue screen are concerning until some one else says "yeah, the computer was hosed when he got here".

[edit on 1-26-2009 by Valhall]

"There's something wrong"

NG and HLN is not my favorite news source with repetitive taboid journalism. I guess they're just giving people what the want? I hate reading, but I'll check your site. How these people could have still allowed this person to raise this child without intervention is still suspicious. I'm curious as to what a complete psyhcoanalysis and with an MRI or similar will show about her to avoid these repeated losses in the future.

The solution is prevention, not just token witch hunts, trials and executions to satisfy someone else's twisted idea of justice being served. Another case scenario is Cayce was child abductor and or a serial killer or on her way.

You don't just label as defective and execute someone like this without ever understanding what made them this way. That's just another 'sacrificial' cover up.

"There's something wrong" about Lee having laughed about the smell in the car. Nervous laugh and or a sign he may not be much different from Cayce? idk If Cayce was a sexual deviant without any moral conscience, she may seduced her brother also. We just don't yet know the details about this family and the extent of her manipulations. Who is the father of Cay-lee?

If Lee was the father, would people still feel the same about Caylee? idk

[edit on 26-1-2009 by aleon1018]

I'm still confused about the video of Caylee visitng her great grandfather at the nursing home as it was said to have been on father's day? wasn't that the 15th and wasn't that Cindy's voice also?

I noticed the time line for July, but I'm also curious about the timeline for June when Caylee first supposedly died. I'm thinking that Caylee expected to go swimming that day and did. There was mention of the ladder being up against the pool, when it shouldn't have been. I think there may have been confusion about who Caylee was with the day she died and who she was actually with. Cayce may have left Caylee there and snuck off while Cindy hadn't realized that Caylee was in the pool.

Cayce laughed at her mom in one of the videos for crying? "you just got here and you're already crying?" Cayce laughing as if in control? and or feeling herself not guilty of Cayce's death. Did Cayce want her mom to cry and as-if it was really her mom's fault Cayce may have drowned in the pool?

It's as if some competition between wills was going on with these two and Caylee was in the middle and George was disgusted with them both? idk Was Caylee wearing a dress or a swimsuit in the father's day video?






[edit on 26-1-2009 by aleon1018]

Well, I can tell you I would. Caylee was just an innocent child, no matter what the circumstances behind her being conceived.

I try to avoid commenting on the incest theory because so far there has been no evidence produced by LE on it, and this family is already being battered from all directions (given they have brought on every bit of it with their extremely abnormal behavior). But I do find it curious that CA, GA and LA all had to submit DNA samples and on LA's sample LE specifically requested to do a comparison of his DNA to Caylee's. This at least notes LE is trying to rule out or confirm the incest rumors. Which I guess they would have to...it doesn't mean there is any substance behind the rumors at this time (based on discovery released).

When I first started following this case back in July I started trying to understand the "thing" Casey appears to be. I bought Ann Rule's Small Sacrifices and read it because up until this point the closest persona to Casey's was being reported to be Diane Downs who was convicted of shooting all three of her kids (one died, the other two lived, but were permanently affected physically).

The reports that Diane Downs and KC were of the same ilk seem to be spot on. DD was a sexual predator just like KC appears to be. Also, in both cases, it appears the decision to off the children wasn't well thought out - BUT, the lie surrounding the event was. In other words, in both cases you get the sense these women fall short on the "plan to execute", but convince themselves that if they "say the lie" they have concocted, the result they want will be produced. They appear to believe their own lie more than anyone else possibly can. In other words, it seems as though they project out to the future what outcome they want, build the lie to achieve it, and never stop thinking that result will occur if they just stick with the lie they think will get them there.

You are very correct that in both these cases the "big picture" goal should not just be to merely get justice, but to understand what makes these women predators what they are. Just as male sexual predators should be understood...if for no other reason than to be able to profile them and educate people to understand the type of person they may be dealing with.

I'm not a person that believes that a bad child necessarily makes a bad person. There are too many people who live through terrible abuse (physical, emotional and sexual) who come out of that childhood nightmare and lead productive and mentally healthy lives. It still falls back to a decision by a person to become "evil". A good example of how a bad parent can be blamed for being part of the problem, but not be blamed for the decision of the adult child is to look at the allegations that KC wanted to put Caylee up for adoption when she found out she was pregnant. CA became part of the ultimate outcome of Caylee's life when she refused to support KC in that decision, but at the same time, KC was 19 years old, emancipated, and free to make her own choices. She didn't.

Just to be clear, I'm still not convinced that KC intentionally killed Caylee (although I do lean more toward it because of the google searches made). I am still open to the idea that her negligence led to an accidental death. But even if Caylee died accidentally, KC's behavior from that moment on falls right in line with DD's behavior. Well, actually, KC out does DD in the "post-mortem bizarre behavior" arena. DD, like KC, didn't show the normal emotions of a mother who had just lost one child and might lose two more, but DD didn't go out partying every night and act like life was perfect. KC did. And assuming KC is the one that threw Caylee's body away like it was yesterday's trash...that makes her behavior after Caylee's death even more frightening. It's one thing to be scared to report you didn't watch your child and they died from neglect. It's a whole different psyche to be able to just thow them in a swamp and go partying for a month.

P.S. And then it's a whole third realm of "monster" when you drive around for a week in a car that stinks of your dead daughter's body and text people laughing about the stench of a dead squirrel.

Please...that's just too far out of "normal" to even be able to think about.

[edit on 1-26-2009 by Valhall]

Yes, the visit to Cindy's father in the nursing home was on June 15th, Father's day. Caylee and Cindy DID go swimming on the 15th. George states he last saw Caylee on the 16th around 12:50 pm when KC and Caylee were leaving. That's the last time anyone other than KC saw Caylee alive.

aleon,

Did you see this thread I created? You should be able to look up the known activity for June in it.

Timeline and Evidence

I think it's obvious that Cayce seems to be playing some type of on going game of shifting blame on her parents and others. It's not easy to get into the heads of people like this and most likely many don't ever want to either.

I'm hoping the little girl is in a better place around people who can comfort her, rather than helplessly trying to talk to her grandparents as some little ghost.

Many feel that death ends suffering and for Caylee it's now over. But for those who don't know either way is always in the their mind somehow. A recent psychic show was as if some psychic who claimed to know the details of the death in some well known cases. But the notion of fraud for ratings and publicity is also twisted. I've yet to hear the results of their findings as if knowing the killers. What's really closure? idk


Both parents of Cayce worked and were in jobs that involved death and suffering. What affect and disconnection does that have one these people and especially their children? idk

I don't think we can speak here for everyone else. I suppose it depends on how we're raised and what we've been through personally. The most inocent are always the worst victims. But victims just get older.

I had been wondering about a movie: The Vanishing with Jeff Bridges I had tried watching a couple of times and for some reason lost interest.
www.imdb.com...

tagline: www.imdb.com...

"If someone you loved mysteriously vanished how far out of your mind would you go to find them?"

With the mention of chloroform and Cayce getting ideas from movies made me wonder if she had seen it around the same time. I have Comcast and possibly depending on the time she may have and seen it where could also be some clue. Two of the words on this list were also on her google search.

www.imdb.com...

I had difficulty finding a wiki on the Jeff Bridges movie for some odd reason and came across this myspace which is a band called The Vanishing www.myspace.com...

the blog on the right mentions about "songs for psychotic children"

Maybe nothing, but I don't know what she listened to or was interested in with because of her parents related jobs and the subject. She may have read some of her father's cases?

I wonder if this movie was also one that they had in their house and if Jeff Bridges is one of her parents favorites? idk

Maybe this was premeditated and meant for someone else, such as Caylee's father etc. Cayce having looked up missing children may have been related to a specific child also.



[edit on 26-1-2009 by aleon1018]

reply to post by Valhall

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Whoa, Val.....fantastic job!!!

( I think I may safely say I've found someone who may be more obsessed with this case than I am....tho my husbeast might disagree! )

To that end, I've tried to ( quickly) read this thread as well as your 'timeline' thread, but I may have missed parts, so if this has been mentioned already, please forgive.......

The day that George had the confrontation with KC about the gas cans (24-25th)... he said he got to the rear fender area and KC closed the trunk so he could not look in......shouldn't he have noticed a smell?? That was about the time she had mentioned it to others, and just two days later it was so bad she'd abandoned the car.....

If the day of the pool ladder incident ( the 16-17th), was the possible date of an accidental drowning, a span of 7 days had already transpired and unless poor Caylee was literally kept on ice somewhere and maybe with someone's help ?, the smell should have been easy to notice much sooner.

I totally agree with everything you've said here. There are a lot of unanswered questions about the gas can incident. GA states he got to the "rear fender light" before she shoved the cans at him. The trunk lid probably obscured his view, but it didn't pinch his nostrils off. Unless GA had the head-cold of the century, I don't understand why he didn't smell it.

BUT...what if Caylee was actually still in there on that date, in a sealed trash bag, and therefore the car HADN'T started smelling yet? What if, after the close encounter with GA, KC realized she had to dump the body? What if, when she tried to remove the bag containing Caylee, the bag ripped and that's when the decomposition fluids came out? After that, the car would have started smelling to high heaven.

Just a scenario.

Just an update on the timeline thread. I actually had to go in and make several changes to the cell phone activity from 06/16 onward because I noticed something in the forensic reports of KC's cell phone and the Anthony's home landline. In KC cell phone contact list is an entry "Casa de Anthony". I had assumed (wrongfully) that that was the Anthony home phone since she also had "Momma" and "Dad" in her contacts...with those being their cells.

I was wrong! The first thing I noticed was on the Anthony home landline records there is not ONE SINGLE CALL from KC from 06/16 to 07/17...not one! But there are calls on KC's cell phone to "Casa de Anthony". So I thought...is that Lee? Sure as shoot, when I check the contact list for KC's phone, there is NOT an entry for Lee! Casa de Anthony = LA!!!

So I had to go in and correct that. I'm actually going to go back through those parts and make sure I haven't missed anything else in the cell phone activity.

reply to post by Valhall

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I had wondered if the bag would contain the smell that well, until she made a tear in it.....?

It was stated in the FBI report (as best I could understand ) that the decomp chemicals found in the air sample taken from the trunk represented 2.6 days of decomposition.....more days of decomposition would yield additional chemicals that show up as more breakdown occurs....and they were not present.

If this is a strict frame work, does this mean that the death would have occurred at a later date than that of the pool ladder incident, or could the decomp have been slowed??

I'm looking for an accessory, at least one after the fact.......one with a freezer.....
Have you seen any interview transcripts with Annie D?

This is a strange deal...I think Caylee might have drowned or the mother might have accidentally killed her with the drugging. Perhaps the duct tape was applied after the death to make her death line up with the "Zanny" story.

NOT ONE...very astute of you. It's bugged me big time because almost every friend that has been interviewed as referred to AD being her best girlfriend...but not a single interview released on AD.

reply to post by dooper

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Welcome to the Orange County law enforcement experience! Florida cops are justifiably as well known for failing to show up for calls (I can provide dates to anyone wanting to contest this) or for refusing to do their jobs as they are for beating people.

reply to post by Valhall

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I don't believe the story of George seeing Caylee on the 16th. I think Casey left on the night of the 15th during that heated argument with Cindy. Either he mistook another day for this or he was trying to throw investigators off a little.

Your posts sound like someone from the Websleuths board lol.







[edit on 26/1/2009 by toochaos4u]

[edit on 26/1/2009 by toochaos4u]

reply to post by Valhall

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Most people here think he's faking it but the whole family probably will go down for conspiracy when this is over and him being an ex-cop is a HUGE target on his head. An insanity plea is probably his only hope, though one couldn't blame him for going nuts living with those two. I feel very sorry for this man for his family dragging him into the gutter, he seems like a decent person and appears to have loved that little girl very much. The only thing worse than having your baby murdered would be having to live under the same roof as the monster who did it, him being a cop probably made it that much harder for him.
Their attorney, Jose Baez, also is being investigated by the state for alleged improper relations with Caycee. People also are theorizing he is the secret donor who is paying for her New York attorney.

reply to post by secretagent woooman

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I don't know if he is faking it but, it certainly would drive me nuts listening to Cindy's chatter. It seems the way it is covered it might be fake but, time will tell. When Casey and Lee had that talk in the beginning I personally believe that she told them Caylee was dead. After the calls Cindy's demeanor changed dramatically from a worrying grandmother to a woman that denied her own words.

The only problem I have with this theory is that it does appear that KC was at the Anthony house on the night of the 15th/morning of the 16th from her cell phone records.

Just to set the record straight, the Florida State Bar dropped the investigation today against JB.