Israel using white phosphorus ?, page 1

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Topic started on 13-1-2009 @ 06:35 AM by 04326

Here's a video interview of a weapons expert talking about the use of white phosphorus over gaza.

YouTube Link

so now they are using it in gaza. This is after they used it in the lebanese war.

I wonder why America is silent about this? Perhaps because they themselves used it in Falluja.

Isn't the use of this particular chemical highly restricted - and is banned from being used in populated areas? Aren't the resulting burns the closest thing to nuclear burns? - Yet the world is silent.

Reminds me of so much of the past of Hitler's era.

For me it's like assisting to something I've read in history books, thought about, discussed about - like: "How could it happen? How could it be that nobody spoke out? How could they just watch and stay silent..??" - And here, now, all around of me it's actually happening... The same patterns... Monstrous lies on TV, people seemingly losing their minds - rationality gone... Atrocities happening almost in front of my eyes and people here seem not to notice - or don't care...

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 06:14 PM by 04326

Hmmm i was expecting to be inundated by people telling me that oh no, this is an interview conducted by aljazeera. It has to be wrong. Israel would never do such a thing.

I suppose, the critics are finally silent because they too recognise the absolute hypocrisy of the jewish state. First get rescued from such acts, and then turn into one that promotes it. All while their brother in arms applauds and provides them more weapons to test out on civilians.

The next time we teach kids about the nazi holocaust, we should tell them to switch on the tv to observe first hand the re-enactment of the nazi crimes by the people in their midst.

'Never again' - Yeah Right!

YouTube Link

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 06:19 PM by EyesWideShut

Yeah WP is so Bad that we didn't stop using it in our matches until 1913. We also use wicked RP in our road flares. Please do some research on White Phosporus ALA google to educate yourself

DENY IGNORANCE

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 06:24 PM by EyesWideShut

Nevermind... I'll do It for you.

Military uses of WP

What the RED CROSS says

WP as a weapon

PSSSST!! Don't tell anyone but I hear Israel is using bullets aswell.

I've used WP in a 40MM 203 Round , I'd rather have that touch me than get shot anyday.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by EyesWideShut]

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 06:24 PM by 04326

And here are a bunch of tourists sipping coffee and watching the fire works - just lovely!

Skip to 27 second mark for english:

YouTube Link

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 06:48 PM by 04326

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
Yeah WP is so Bad that we didn't stop using it in our matches until 1913. We also use wicked RP in our road flares. Please do some research on White Phosporus ALA google to educate yourself

DENY IGNORANCE

right! but on what grounds... on the grounds of that it is not recognised by the United States as a toxic chemical under the CWC. But note, only by the United States. Other signatories recognise this as a toxic chemical and condone its use.

Also Protocol III to the Convention on Prohibition or Restrictions on the use of certain Chemical Weapons prohibits its use in all circumstances:

1) making the civilian population, individual civilians, and civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons;
2) any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by air-delivered incendiary weapons

... under articles 2.1 and 2.2

Protocol III also prohibits the making of "any military objective located withina concentration of civilians the object of attack by means of incendiary weapons" (article 2.3)

The red cros is going by the ICRC which says that when incendiary weapons are used, "particular care must be taken to avoid, and in any event to minimise, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilians objects".

The reason israel is getting away under this particular definition is b/c of technicality. and only a technicality. what is that you ask? it is the fact that it is difficult to ascertain how much of the civilian deaths and damage to civilian property is attributed to white phosphorus as opposed to other weapons on the ground at this time.

The ICRC actually says that under customary international law for both international and non-international armed conflict, "the anti-personnel use of incendiary weapons is prohibited, unless it is not feasible to use a less harmful weapon to render a person hors de combat"

so please save the 'deny ignorance' tag line for someone else.

[edit on 13/1/09 by 04326]

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:06 PM by EyesWideShut

reply to post by 04326

Have you ever "Seen" with your own eyes "White Phosphorus"... did you even know what it was prior to last week? I highly doubt it. It is the new evil thats being portrayed in the Media so now it's number one on your list of "Exotic things to be afraid of"

You got the "Deny Ignorance" label because you are ignorant in this subject. You are a repeater , simply repeating what you've been fed... I'm just curious what is the difference in using WP as opposed to some other incindiary device or HE round?

I don't know why this is being so blown out of proportion. I'll explain this to you in a way that you can understand.

THE REASON CIVILIANS ARE BEING INJURED IS BECAUSE HAMAS FIGHTS AMONG CIVILIAN POPULATION.

I'm not pro Israel btw... I'm just sick of people talking about WP like Its a nuclear weapon. WP is damn near molecularly identical to RP which is in road flares , and RP burns a lot hotter. Does it matter what the Gazans are being killed with. Guess what? the Geneva convention also states that When I was In the Marine Corps I was only supposed to Fire my 50 Cal at armored targets... If an enemy soldier was wearing body armor guess what?... that would make him an "armored target" Is that what they intended?.... of course not but thats what happens when people go by "rules of war" ... they are open to interpretation.

WP is not the EVIL it is being made out to be. I'd be more worried of, the shelling, grenades and bullets is all I'm saying.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by EyesWideShut]

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:15 PM by 04326

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by 04326

I don't know why this is being so blown out of proportion. I'll explain this to you in a way that you can understand.

THE REASON CIVILIANS ARE BEING INJURED IS BECAUSE HAMAS FIGHTS AMONG CIVILIAN POPULATION.

I'm not pro Israel btw... I'm just sick of people talking about WP like Its a nuclear weapon. WP is damn near molecularly identical to RP which is in road flares , and RP burns a lot hotter. Does it matter what the Gazans are being killed with. Guess what? the Geneva convention also states that When I was In the Marine Corps I was only supposed to Fire my 50 Cal at armored targets... If an enemy soldier was wearing body armor guess what?... that would make him an "armored target" Is that what they intended?.... of course not but thats what happens when people go by "rules of war" ... they are open to interpretation.

WP is not the EVIL it is being made out to be. I'd be more worried of, the shelling, grenades and bullets is all I'm saying.

The point i am trying to make is that the use of WP is being downplayed because it is not breaking the red cross's own code due to technicality. However if it was to be taken into a war crime tribunal, israel like america - would have a lot to answer for.

It is true that WP is being made a big deal of - and i am personally making a big deal of it too because it is something the masses have been made aware of. I am sure if we were to talk weapons, there are much worse ones out there . but it is not my job to educate them about everything. However, getting away due to technicality is not right! that is what i am trying to point out.

You also say that the reason Civilians are being injured is because hamas fights among civilian population.

My god man! where else are they gonna fight??? outside of the walls that gaza is locked behind? in israel?

and in case the world has forgotten, hamas is a political party first with only a military wing. Rather than the other way around. I am not going to defend hamas but the hamas fighters are like a rag tag team of bandits rather than the armed to the teeth soldiers of israel. please dont forget that... and most importantly please don't forget that

Israel Created Hamas!

What israel is doing is wrong and is breaking international law. But what do they care for international law!

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:19 PM by dooper

reply to post by 04326

Israel is not getting away with White Phosphorous because of a technicality. It's a substance used in many forms, great against certain structures, good against soft targets, and it burns like hell.

Let me tell you what is more abominable. A suicide vest used against civilians in a market! Using screws, nails, and glass for shrapnel.

WP is legal. Cluster bombs - legal.

High Explosive - legal.

Fuel/Air - legal.

Thermobaric - legal.

And I wouldn't give a damn if something was legal or not when it comes time to kill or die.

The Geneva Conventions (which I didn't sign) requires firearms to have a full metal jacket.

I carried a sawed-off Winchester Model 12, .12-guage shotgun, and when I shot, they folded.

To tell you the truth, I do recall the Geneva Conventions when I got the shotgun, but while walking point, I just didn't give a damn.

Here's the secret: it doesn't matter if it's a .223 FMJ, a load of 00 Buckshot, a .50, an RPG, a 500-pounder, a two-thousand pounder, WP, HE, or even thermobaric - Dead is dead.

You can choke them, impale them, beat them to death with your helmet, rip out their throat with your teeth, slice and dice with a machete, crush their head with a cinder block, or if you get really creative, you roll them on their stomach, put your boot in the small of their back, grab their arms and pull sharply backwards until you hear something like a carrot snapping.

Dead is dead.

Get it?

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:22 PM by 04326

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by 04326

Have you ever "Seen" with your own eyes "White Phosphorus"... did you even know what it was prior to last week? I highly doubt it. It is the new evil thats being portrayed in the Media so now it's number one on your list of "Exotic things to be afraid of"

You got the "Deny Ignorance" label because you are ignorant in this subject. You are a repeater , simply repeating what you've been fed... I'm just curious what is the difference in using WP as opposed to some other incindiary device or HE round?

In that case i award you the 'deny ignorance' tag too.

You are obviously failing to see the point. This is ridiculous - just b/c red cross says that they are not breaking the law, you take their word for it. Without looking into the reasons why.

And yes i have seen WP in use. In fact, it is one of the many chemicals i used to muck around with in a previous life as a chemistry student. I repeat Yes, there are other more dangerous things which are being used. But that is no excuse to White Wash the issue!

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:25 PM by 04326

Originally posted by dooper

And I wouldn't give a damn if something was legal or not when it comes time to kill or die.

Oh yeh, wasn't it you and once famously said something along the lines of "UN being america's lap dog" which should be gotten rid of.
and don't give a damn about international law either just like israel.

Bring on the age of indiscriminate killing and society's regression back into savagery. Go Dooper!

[edit on 13/1/09 by 04326]

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:25 PM by 3vilscript

HAHAHAHAHA at 1:04 "Yes I'm a little bit fascist." There should be a new word for that type of remarks..... "Hitlerish" should be used instead of fascist. This is what happens when a generation forgets the struggle their ancestors went through.... they turn into the very thing that once persecuted them. At least shes not a hypocrite, lake Israeli leaders I suppose.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:38 PM by EyesWideShut

reply to post by 04326

I understand your point , what you don't understand is that there is no "Technicality" that is being broken. And the opposite is happening as far as WP being "Downplayed" , I'll bet you anything more people now know about WP because people like you are sensationalizing it. I don't agree with what Isreal is doing & I don't take either side because they're both wrong. WP has NOTHING to do with it. WP as a weapon is pretty damn ineffective. Can you even REMOTELY explain to me how WP is being delivered in any weapons system in use by Isreal?

[edit on 13-1-2009 by EyesWideShut]

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:59 PM by masonwatcher

I think some posters are confusing legal weapons with illegal uses. You can use WP as a smoke screen but you can't even use it as a weapon in war let alone explode it next to apartment buildings.
'
The test of illegality is a weapon that continues to do damage after the threat of an enemy has been stopped. Example, shooting someone attacking you is legal. If he dies it is legal but if that bullet is laced with toxins and poisons and he survives to suffer the consequence, it is illegal. War is the temporary cessation of the rule of law. You can't even shoot civilians and with evidence of deliberate intent you can prosecute the accused according to local laws.

With the reinstatement of armistice, international laws on human rights are applied. Even national laws come into force. There are prosecutions of Blackwater mercenaries going on in the US even when the government hired them in the first place. States are individuals are subject to the laws of war. There are no exemptions, it's only a matter of bagging the accused.

reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:18 PM by EyesWideShut

reply to post by masonwatcher

Exactly , WP's Primary use is Illumination. A secondary effect of WP is the burns. (Something akin to being caught outside under fireworks) For injuries to occur the civilians would have to be outside unsheltered and and basically looking up into the air and watching the WP fall. I think there is confusion between what people think WP is with Thermite. (Which has no other purpose than being used as a weapon)

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:14 PM by 04326

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by masonwatcher

Exactly , WP's Primary use is Illumination. A secondary effect of WP is the burns. (Something akin to being caught outside under fireworks) For injuries to occur the civilians would have to be outside unsheltered and and basically looking up into the air and watching the WP fall. I think there is confusion between what people think WP is with Thermite. (Which has no other purpose than being used as a weapon)

so please tell us, why WP shells have been used on the UN HQ in gaza?

why are people blindly supporting such out of control aggression?

So far, Israel has:

Killed over a 1000 people
Injured over 4,500
and USED WP!!

and all people seem to believe is that they are Innocent. Why?

Israel is a rogue power which needs to be stopped!

reply posted on 15-1-2009 @ 10:36 PM by dooper

Mason, there you go again! WP is legal to use in many forms on many targets.

White Phosphorous is a perfectly legal, widely used form of antipersonnel weapon, as is High Explosive, as is Fuel/Air, as is cluster bombs, as is thermobaric, as is massive MOAB type weapons, and when you get right down to it, nuclear weapons are legal too. One that hasn't been used in a while also exists. It's a basically a large canister of darts. No explosives, just thousands and thousands of darts that rely on gravity and inertia.

To suggest otherwise, to claim that these weapons are somehow illegal is completely false, and since we've been over this time and again, I know you know better.

Why would you state such things when you absolutely know they aren't true?

Yet another false thread, based on knowingly false material, presented by one of about four posters who so far have puked out more falsehoods than Muhammed.

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