What if the USA was a fascist state (conspiracy theories aside please)?

I know there are some of you out there that are going to look at my thread title and ask "why are you preventing us from discussing conspiracy theories?" I want this thread to be a purely ideological and theoretical discussion. That is why.

Anyhow... lots of people were mentioning that the USA would become a strong fascist state and George W Bush would become a tyrant. I think that just came from fear that he would suspend the elections and the constitution because of the job he's done...

But... let's think for a second. What if we weren't a Democracy? What if we were a fascist dictator state?

Would we be like the Soviet Union?

How do you think we would be like?

I think our army would rebel. Our army is loyal to our government because they are force-fed values of Democracy and told to protect our land to protect our Democracy but if we didn't have that what would they be encouraged to protect?

Honestly it would be just like it is now except for a few things would be different.

The internet would be censored, guns would be outlawed, and we would have universal health care.

The reasons for these things are as follows:

1. The internet would censored as to control to flow of information so make us believe what they want us to believe with enough dissenting opinion to keep us fighting amongst ourselves.

2. Guns would be outlawed for obvious reasons, but mainly so we couldn't stage a violent revolution, because we would win.

3. We would have universal health care so they could monitor us and make sure we are up to date with the latest 'vaccines.' Also the ultimate form of control, do as the doctor tells you or no health care for you.

These are not conspiracies because these are all things that some elected official has advocated and supports openly.

Other than those three things everything would be the same, we would go through the same routines electing different politicians while a shadow gov't tells them what to do. The shadow gov't being the major corporations.

You wouldn't be able to tell a difference. If the US turned into a straight known fascist state it's head would get lopped off faster than bullet out of a barrel, because of what you said about our Military rebelling.

I think we are already in a fascist state. This is what a Fascist state looks like. If your life is better than mine I am going to postulate that you got more wealth than I. Thats all. Funny the things that divide folks... But we shall soon all be equals in wealth.... Difference is that I am the one that is already used to it.

But yes this is a fascist society. And if you refuse to accept it I shall blame Digital tv but allow us both room for our beliefs....

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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I'm not so quick to peg the military as rebelling against fascism. From a conspiracy view (a quick aside into conspiracy land) there are plenty of narratives regarding a military coup taking over. And Americans really love our Generals. A charismatic General and the right kind of situation would probably have wide support from the army and the citizenry. Stepping out of conspiracy land, militarism in the face of an external threat is a historical model for how Democracy faded in the ancient world.

Of course, even something like Shakespeare's Julius Caesar shows it's really all about a complicated interplay between the forces: the citizens (the "mob"), the law-makers (Senate), and the leaders (President/General).

reply to post by titorite

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I'd say we are about 3 steps away from a fascist state. They don't have enough control right now. That is the only reason why I say that.

No, it has nothing to do with money or TV with my view point. All it would take right now is for the right mastermind to come along and quell an uprising and there is nothing that the gov't could do about it except try to fight it.

In a fascist state he wouldn't even have a chance to get that far before he was offed.

The level of control isn't there yet.

I agree with Titorite that the US already is a fascist state, corporate totalitarianism to be exact. Also, it's possible to be a fascist democracy, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Iran, Russia and Zimbabwe would be examples of fascist democracies.

To be honest, we can't say america is fascist state, since fascist state must be a dictatorship. America is formally a democracy, where people really do have a choice, but there still is a dictatorship of ideology. There's absolutely no way for any other than democrats or republicans to win the elections (for president or for majority in congress).

BUT when we talk about society, american society definitely is pretty fascist. I'd estimate that one half of those who voted for McCain has some prejudice against colored or natives, ... (if they are not KKK members it doesn't mean they have nothing against them). No hard fillings, I didn't name anybody, but that's my filling. The situation is better than it was 50 years ago, but still it's not good.

I remember watching a film, the title of which I can't remember. It was about an experiment, where an older lady took some white guys and treated them like such guys normally treat colored. The experiment only lasted for a day or so and those men were really broken at the end... Anybody know which film I'm talking about?

There is no 'what ifs' on this. Here's the real deal.

10 Easy Steps to Facisum

From what I can gather about the US, it is pretty much fascist except with a system where the wealthy can get into power to create an illusion of democracy

Fascism is just another form of government and a workable one at that - the main problem of course is the whole dictatorship thing.

It is extremely capitalist/free market orientated but still a closed book dictatorship where corporatization and military power and are probably the most important things.

Sounds similar to the US?

This has the potential to be a really interesting topic.

First we are going to have to define what "fascism" is, anyway. Without splitting hairs too much, I think a good working definition is when a strong central government in one nation is working hand-in-glove with big business. . This is how the term was basically used originally, in Mussolini's Italy, where the same system was also called "corporatism." In Adolph Hitler's germany you had the same type of structure: "national socialism:" Government control of business (which is socialism), but patriotic (national), rather than being conceived of as an international movement (like communism).

I don't think we have fascism now because there is still a serious rift of sorts between big business (which tends to favor borderless, international, laissez-faire free market capitalism) and government (which tends to favor jurisdiction, local control, taxes, tighter regulations, etc.). But if we keep up the government bailouts and whatnot, and if classical capitalism fails and has to be salvaged by the government, then you are going to have something similar to fascism because the government and business will be more truly united. Except this time around, there will be two major differences from the old-timey 1930s-style fascism:

1) Capitalism is truly international now, with the big companies owned and operated all over the world by a grab-bag of investors from different countries, plants in different places, etc. Under Hitler's Germany, IG Farben or Krupps were German companies in cahoots with the German government. Period. Now you have Saudi investors owning stock in Japanese Toyota which is built in a plant in Kentucky with patents owned by an EU inventor and plastic parts shipped in from China, etc. This is a very different situation.

2) The potential for survalience and control now is much more sophisticated. Back in the 1930s they had book burnings and they controlled the newspapers. Now we have face recognition technology, web applications that create profiles of you based on the sites you visit, cameras everywhere, and we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the biological implications for control: DNA fingerprinting and (perhaps most frightening of all) we are now seeing the first brain scanners that can pick up on your emotions or tell if you are hiding something, etc.

Given these two factors, whatever "nightmare scenario" pf total control that could emerge in the 21st century strikes me as potentially a lot more terrifying than old-school fascism. The only thing that may save us is that there may be too many players at each other's throats to get organized to the extent necessary to really implement that level of global top-down control.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by silent thunder]

Well, there's no need for in your face fascism when you've got an overwhelming percentage of the population too indoctrinated, docile, and fearful of the government to do anything about the policies in place and/or being set into place.

This is mental fascism. Do what everyone else does, or be left out. Follow the law, buy into the business at hand, and be quiet about your own thoughts questioning the system that is, or starve and be left out in the street.

No longer are children brought up to learn basic survival skills like hunting, gathering, building, and growing your own livelihood. Instead, we are taught to consume endlessly, depend on the state and corporations, and submit to the established law. Freedom to do what they tell you that you should do. You have the option of not complying, but your avenues of doing so are very limited and in most cases very hard to accomplish... and that's where the instilled fear comes into play.

The media is owned by monopolies.... the same monopolies which control the military industrial complex and the banking cartels.

We are at the hub of international corporate fascism, and at this point, it can't even be said that we are at the very least a democracy because even the voting system is contracted to corporations, which base their whole business on profit...just like every other business... and profit knows no ethical bounds.

Since we are at the hub, we are as a whole very well oiled, with the illusion of freedom of choice being our biggest motivator. We are the transmission. If we break down, the entire world breaks down and is virtually unrepairable... and we seem to have been the Ferrari of the world economy for ages, so really if our transmission failed, it would be an immense loss. All the other parts can break down and be and be replaced, but if the transmission fails, you might as well junk the whole thinng... and nobody really wants to junk the Ferrari just yet...

Fascism of old was a junker.... only guaranteed for a few years.... but it has been honed into a precision piece of machinery that can run smoothly for decades, as long as the caretakers are vigilant. A ferrari driven in the right hands could easily win tropies, but instead we've got a bunch of drivers drunk on power figuring that if they "lose control" and let the cars behind them slam into their rear, that they can collect the insurance money and go have another luxury sports car built. We are becoming disposable used junk, slaves to the whim of drunken and arrogant owners.

Corporate totalitarianism is a good phrase to describle this, since corporate monopoly of the world knows not the concept of waste.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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Frankidealist35, you might enjoy reading Jim Marrs latest book, The Rise of the Fourth Reich. He explains how America is a Fascist nation in that the corporations control the government and do what is in the best interest of the corporations, not the people.

He explains how our leadership, especially the Neo-Cons, are not conservatives as they want you to believe, but rather they are National Socialists (NAZI).

In this case, the socialism applies to what is best for our Nation's corporations, not the people. The people have almost totally lost their voice. Just try getting your congressman or senator to respond to you regarding many or any of the topics discussed on this forum. They will ignore you because you do not represent corporate interests.

Bruce