reply to post by Xtraeme
Im in full support of disclosure. I just dont think most people realize the ramifications of full disclosure.
Most folks think about the basics. Stuff like resolving the question of are we alone in the Universe. Others ponder the religious issues that would
arise with the announcement that other sentient beings exist.
But most dont think about the most basic of questions that could utterly destroy the current society we know. Technology, specifically how can aliens
get here, what energy do they use, etc.
Its not the question of if we are alone thats going to change our society. Its dealing with the knowledge that we dont need oil. Or worse, finding out
that elements within our govt has had the technology to free us from oil for decades.
Im sure there are quite a few within the Black Ops projects that fear tribunals or executions when people realize that millions have died from war and
poverty because of our energy issues.
And going even deeper within this disclosure the idea that money might not exist is another earth-shattering issue. Money is based on scarcity. Aliens
wont have scarcity and neither will we if we get free energy devices and portable anti-gravity. Money goes bye bye, so does the fabric of control.
Clearly we would need a transition period to get a system in place to ensure everyone is fed, housed, and other needs met without money around.
disclosure is the biggest event in Human History. Its not going to come easily and you can bet it might lead to world rioting, deaths, possibly war
and worse before we adjust.
Post UFO Disclosure ideas in the "Citizen's Briefing Book" to Barack Obama on change.gov!!!, page 9
privacy
reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 01:57 AM by Xtraeme
reply to post by SaviorComplex
Here's what I said:
And here's your response:
You're arguing that if the US military is aware UFOs/EBEs/what-have-you have the capacity to cause massive wanton destruction and the government has chosen to hide all information related to that, it must be because the military is incapable of protecting us. Right?
So therefore if things ever go south and the human race is attacked, it's not the fault of the people in charge for withholding information because it would have been remise of them to get people worked up over a little thing like the possible genocide of the entire human species.
That about sum it up?
You know what I like to call that, Fife Symington rationale. I hope I needn't parse out why that's an exceptionally bad idea.
If the government is incapable of addressing that sort of military problem, and it systematically clouds the issue, it's defaulted on even the pretense of protecting its people. Should that ever turn out to be the case I'd say the people have a right to not only to strip those in power of their positions, but their lives.
I'd be very scared to be the person making those kinds of grave decisions all on my lonesome.
Thus, I think it's reasonable to say ...
[edit on 14-1-2009 by Xtraeme]
Here's what I said:
Here's why, it represents a legitimate national security issue.
Imagine if the government tried to hide the fact that terrorists were trying to attack us, and one horrible day their efforts failed to protect us; say, something like 9-11. Would we thank the government for keeping us in the dark or raise holy hell?
It's in the best interest of those who govern to disclose what's known (and I'm not saying they know much if anything) simply to lessen accountability
And here's your response:
At bare minimum if any of this is true it would not be the government has failed to protect us, but are incapable of protecting us. How would it be responsible to reveal that kind of information? "Holy hell" could not begin to describe what would happen.
You're arguing that if the US military is aware UFOs/EBEs/what-have-you have the capacity to cause massive wanton destruction and the government has chosen to hide all information related to that, it must be because the military is incapable of protecting us. Right?
So therefore if things ever go south and the human race is attacked, it's not the fault of the people in charge for withholding information because it would have been remise of them to get people worked up over a little thing like the possible genocide of the entire human species.
That about sum it up?
You know what I like to call that, Fife Symington rationale. I hope I needn't parse out why that's an exceptionally bad idea.
If the government is incapable of addressing that sort of military problem, and it systematically clouds the issue, it's defaulted on even the pretense of protecting its people. Should that ever turn out to be the case I'd say the people have a right to not only to strip those in power of their positions, but their lives.
I'd be very scared to be the person making those kinds of grave decisions all on my lonesome.
Thus, I think it's reasonable to say ...
It's in the best interest of those who govern to disclose what's known (and I'm not saying they know much if anything) simply to lessen accountability.
[edit on 14-1-2009 by Xtraeme]
reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 02:00 AM by PhyberDragon
reply to post by admriker444
Really??? You may be right, but, I've heard similiar ideas for so long, I don't know about all that. first off, it's currency- not money- that drives the World. Gold, Products, sevices, Shells, whatever, things of value traded for other things of value. All Money did was eased the burden of hauling all your valuables around. And Promissory Notes were intended to keep you from having to lug all your chickens up and over the hills to the market where you'd barter them for more stuff you'd have to lug back with you. The problem there was that rather than the chicken farmer going to collect his stuff or, vice versa, the marketeer going to the farmer's house to collect his chickens, they just traded the IOU's- and worse- since they still had their chickens and stuff, after a while, they just figured since no one was coming to collect they wrote more IOU's off of them (figuring if anyone did come to claim the chickens or whatever due for the note they'd just pay them the equivalent value out of their new aquisitions) Virtual currency was born. That's banking and finance in a nutshell for ya.
As to World Finance and Economies and other Government Structures, well, Reality and Role Playing Gamers and Geeks have pretty well solved that one. We'll just apply something like Federation Laws and Galactic Credits. And as for World Religions, well, they'll just have to get over themselves and their arrogance won't they?? Yeah Right. More likely, they'll go BIBLE thumpin' on the Aliens with their Convert or Die Mentalities. That's the only real threat I see.
As for technology, ours is a species of progressive advancements, we'll just do what we always do with technology, privatize, profit, and control the masses with it. Most of the good stuff will likely remain secreted away anyways.
Really??? You may be right, but, I've heard similiar ideas for so long, I don't know about all that. first off, it's currency- not money- that drives the World. Gold, Products, sevices, Shells, whatever, things of value traded for other things of value. All Money did was eased the burden of hauling all your valuables around. And Promissory Notes were intended to keep you from having to lug all your chickens up and over the hills to the market where you'd barter them for more stuff you'd have to lug back with you. The problem there was that rather than the chicken farmer going to collect his stuff or, vice versa, the marketeer going to the farmer's house to collect his chickens, they just traded the IOU's- and worse- since they still had their chickens and stuff, after a while, they just figured since no one was coming to collect they wrote more IOU's off of them (figuring if anyone did come to claim the chickens or whatever due for the note they'd just pay them the equivalent value out of their new aquisitions) Virtual currency was born. That's banking and finance in a nutshell for ya.
As to World Finance and Economies and other Government Structures, well, Reality and Role Playing Gamers and Geeks have pretty well solved that one. We'll just apply something like Federation Laws and Galactic Credits. And as for World Religions, well, they'll just have to get over themselves and their arrogance won't they?? Yeah Right. More likely, they'll go BIBLE thumpin' on the Aliens with their Convert or Die Mentalities. That's the only real threat I see.
As for technology, ours is a species of progressive advancements, we'll just do what we always do with technology, privatize, profit, and control the masses with it. Most of the good stuff will likely remain secreted away anyways.
reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 02:10 AM by admriker444
reply to post by PhyberDragon
there cant be a profit from abundance. Their technology creates abundance.
Imagine a device the size of a shoebox that can power your house forever. It has no moving parts and therefore would never ever need replacing. How can a goverment tax the power usage ? How can the goverment control a society that doesnt need its infrastructure power grid ?
And if all your energy needs are met and cost you nothing, why even work ?
This technology cant be controlled once let out and it shouldnt be. It means the end to poverty and war and control over society.
Money or currency as you state wont have any use in a world of abundance. The question will no longer be "how much will it cost" but rather "do we have enough resources"
The elite wont be able to profit or control such technology. Thats why disclosure hasnt happened and is likely to not occur anytime soon
there cant be a profit from abundance. Their technology creates abundance.
Imagine a device the size of a shoebox that can power your house forever. It has no moving parts and therefore would never ever need replacing. How can a goverment tax the power usage ? How can the goverment control a society that doesnt need its infrastructure power grid ?
And if all your energy needs are met and cost you nothing, why even work ?
This technology cant be controlled once let out and it shouldnt be. It means the end to poverty and war and control over society.
Money or currency as you state wont have any use in a world of abundance. The question will no longer be "how much will it cost" but rather "do we have enough resources"
The elite wont be able to profit or control such technology. Thats why disclosure hasnt happened and is likely to not occur anytime soon
I am still "evolving" in
my technological skills . . .reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:46 AM by PhyberDragon
reply to post by IndigoGypsy
If Aliens created us it would change nothing for many of us. I'm not going to worship them. I may say thank you. It's about as much as God would get from me too. There are those of us in the World who feel that Holy Books, whether true or not are used by Men and possibly Gods (or even Aliens) or a combination thereof to control us.
Religion and Politics to me are as inseperable, most times, as politicians and criminals. There are those of us who, while we may very well encounter things that frighten or awe us to the core, We are still apathetic enough to not care that it weilds unlimited power over our lives. It is my life. No one else's. While I refuse to die willingly or anything like that, I will not fear things that are not real.
Things like intangible ideas such as honor, nobility, sacrifice to a higher power or cause. I base my beliefs on aristolean logic more than I do to Platonic thought. Plato was very flawed in his logic, as far as I can tell, he had no grasp whatsoever of what Pythagoreans, Socrates, and the like were getting at.
The Burden of Proof belongs to the who says there is a God or an Alien or that Revelations of the existance of either would lead to all these wild Scenarios of Panic and Anarchy, and complete fragmentation of the Mind and Body. The Burden is not on the One who Responds to such allegations, claims, averments, and, statements with a simple: No. You are wrong.
As such Revelations have never been Revelated (that there be Aliens) there is no logical basis of Reference from which to draw such chaotic reaction of the masses as are claimed. While, it may well be that the Ones who make such claims would be drawing from their Own knowledge of themselves and their "click" or "network" of Society might well have such Responses, I know of no such Individuals, including My Self, save a few, who would be so Judgemental of events We couldn't possibly foresee and have no basis of from which to draw such conclusions of fear. We are so desensitized to the point that if We saw and met, personally, God, Jesus, the Devil, other Dieties, or Dimensional Beings, or Aliens, whatever. We would still be trying to figure out whether It was a Psychological; Natural; Covert Man- Made; or Covert Alien- Made; or Diety Inspired Event, or not.
How would We even be so arrogant as to Trust Our Government to even tell us the Truth, much less, not to use Technology and Psy Op's, etc. to trick us deeper into their control. Which is really unlikely? Which is impossible???
We wouldn't believe it if We saw it. If God appeared to the World right now; or If Aliens invaded the Earth; or If Government really initiated something like Project Blue Beam; could you be certain which was which?
I couldn't. Therefore, I'm beyond panic. We, folks like me, are apathetics. We are so paranoid, We're convinced that dark forces would kill us if they had a chance no matter what We do, so, out of Spite alone, We do what We want. What We feel is Right for us to do, not, what someone tells us is Right to do. We have no sense of self- identity, We are not Our clothes, so, Prisons are useless on us. We can easily crawl inside of our Minds and get so lost We block the outside World and all of it's Joys and Pains out. We can choose to let it all in. God does not scare me. Devils do not give me pause. Aliens, I would not fear. So what care I about oppressive man.
So, I guess, in Response to what you're saying- I was just being cynical earlier as it's late and I'm under the weather- but, in Truth. I and those like me, although perhaps freakish to you, We would not panic or fear, but, would not go down without a fight, unless doing so served a purpose. We, I know I do, wonder as to why so many People seem to be so broken as to yield to any Master, and would fall apart so readily if their structures crumbled and they were left to be Master of themselves for once.
I have No Job, No Money, No Assets, No Debts that cause me Concern. I have Nothing and No One, free and by choice. Yet, I never lack for anything, ever. I have sex with Lesbians, yet, have no Commitment to either. I talk to all kinds of People, yet, obligated to none. I can go years without talking to family and old friends and We just pick where we left off like nothing had happened. I've had over 50+ jobs almost as many fields. I've never failed a Major Test in fact, I deliberately leave answers blank so that I don't Ace them only score 98%, because I can, I've had over 11 vehicles, and have access to volumes times more than that. I've never bought, sold, transported, or distributed, produced, or dealt a single drug or munition, yet, I can obtain them, what and when I want, I've rarely, if ever had to pay, and I've lived in more homes than I care to count with numerous more all over the place that I can go. I go where I want, when I want. I fly, I drive, and I am driven. I'm never without a cigarette or coffee. I have clothes out the ass. Yet, I rarely, if ever have a penny to my name, Child Support would just take it anyways. I can't get good credit, but, I'll never need it. I get medicine, and medical attention when I need it, though, I rarely get sick. So, you see. I am not a criminal, and I live the lifestyle of a Gypsy, earning little to nothing as I do. Yet, I am probably more blessed than most of you. I thank God for that but I would worship neither Him nor Alien should they be true, unless they were willing to Worship Me , too. If the World fell apart tomorrow, I'd go on living as I do and wouldn't skip a beat or lose a moment of sleep. Yet, whenever I give advice- it's rarely ever taken, even though 100% of the time I'm correct enough to have to say I told you so. When I know a thing- I just know it. My advice to You is: Don't panic. It's not worth the Cost.
If Aliens created us it would change nothing for many of us. I'm not going to worship them. I may say thank you. It's about as much as God would get from me too. There are those of us in the World who feel that Holy Books, whether true or not are used by Men and possibly Gods (or even Aliens) or a combination thereof to control us.
Religion and Politics to me are as inseperable, most times, as politicians and criminals. There are those of us who, while we may very well encounter things that frighten or awe us to the core, We are still apathetic enough to not care that it weilds unlimited power over our lives. It is my life. No one else's. While I refuse to die willingly or anything like that, I will not fear things that are not real.
Things like intangible ideas such as honor, nobility, sacrifice to a higher power or cause. I base my beliefs on aristolean logic more than I do to Platonic thought. Plato was very flawed in his logic, as far as I can tell, he had no grasp whatsoever of what Pythagoreans, Socrates, and the like were getting at.
The Burden of Proof belongs to the who says there is a God or an Alien or that Revelations of the existance of either would lead to all these wild Scenarios of Panic and Anarchy, and complete fragmentation of the Mind and Body. The Burden is not on the One who Responds to such allegations, claims, averments, and, statements with a simple: No. You are wrong.
As such Revelations have never been Revelated (that there be Aliens) there is no logical basis of Reference from which to draw such chaotic reaction of the masses as are claimed. While, it may well be that the Ones who make such claims would be drawing from their Own knowledge of themselves and their "click" or "network" of Society might well have such Responses, I know of no such Individuals, including My Self, save a few, who would be so Judgemental of events We couldn't possibly foresee and have no basis of from which to draw such conclusions of fear. We are so desensitized to the point that if We saw and met, personally, God, Jesus, the Devil, other Dieties, or Dimensional Beings, or Aliens, whatever. We would still be trying to figure out whether It was a Psychological; Natural; Covert Man- Made; or Covert Alien- Made; or Diety Inspired Event, or not.
How would We even be so arrogant as to Trust Our Government to even tell us the Truth, much less, not to use Technology and Psy Op's, etc. to trick us deeper into their control. Which is really unlikely? Which is impossible???
We wouldn't believe it if We saw it. If God appeared to the World right now; or If Aliens invaded the Earth; or If Government really initiated something like Project Blue Beam; could you be certain which was which?
I couldn't. Therefore, I'm beyond panic. We, folks like me, are apathetics. We are so paranoid, We're convinced that dark forces would kill us if they had a chance no matter what We do, so, out of Spite alone, We do what We want. What We feel is Right for us to do, not, what someone tells us is Right to do. We have no sense of self- identity, We are not Our clothes, so, Prisons are useless on us. We can easily crawl inside of our Minds and get so lost We block the outside World and all of it's Joys and Pains out. We can choose to let it all in. God does not scare me. Devils do not give me pause. Aliens, I would not fear. So what care I about oppressive man.
So, I guess, in Response to what you're saying- I was just being cynical earlier as it's late and I'm under the weather- but, in Truth. I and those like me, although perhaps freakish to you, We would not panic or fear, but, would not go down without a fight, unless doing so served a purpose. We, I know I do, wonder as to why so many People seem to be so broken as to yield to any Master, and would fall apart so readily if their structures crumbled and they were left to be Master of themselves for once.
I have No Job, No Money, No Assets, No Debts that cause me Concern. I have Nothing and No One, free and by choice. Yet, I never lack for anything, ever. I have sex with Lesbians, yet, have no Commitment to either. I talk to all kinds of People, yet, obligated to none. I can go years without talking to family and old friends and We just pick where we left off like nothing had happened. I've had over 50+ jobs almost as many fields. I've never failed a Major Test in fact, I deliberately leave answers blank so that I don't Ace them only score 98%, because I can, I've had over 11 vehicles, and have access to volumes times more than that. I've never bought, sold, transported, or distributed, produced, or dealt a single drug or munition, yet, I can obtain them, what and when I want, I've rarely, if ever had to pay, and I've lived in more homes than I care to count with numerous more all over the place that I can go. I go where I want, when I want. I fly, I drive, and I am driven. I'm never without a cigarette or coffee. I have clothes out the ass. Yet, I rarely, if ever have a penny to my name, Child Support would just take it anyways. I can't get good credit, but, I'll never need it. I get medicine, and medical attention when I need it, though, I rarely get sick. So, you see. I am not a criminal, and I live the lifestyle of a Gypsy, earning little to nothing as I do. Yet, I am probably more blessed than most of you. I thank God for that but I would worship neither Him nor Alien should they be true, unless they were willing to Worship Me , too. If the World fell apart tomorrow, I'd go on living as I do and wouldn't skip a beat or lose a moment of sleep. Yet, whenever I give advice- it's rarely ever taken, even though 100% of the time I'm correct enough to have to say I told you so. When I know a thing- I just know it. My advice to You is: Don't panic. It's not worth the Cost.
reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 06:11 AM by daddymax
reply to post by admriker444
Even though the credentials may not be there, if the President states something in regards to disclosure/extra-terrestrials publicly...rest assured SOMETHING would be seen, and or done to appease the People! Maybe not hte whole enchilada, but at least some beans...and some chili sauce!
I'm hungry now...gotta run!!!
You people are asking someone to disclose something they dont have access too.
Even though the credentials may not be there, if the President states something in regards to disclosure/extra-terrestrials publicly...rest assured SOMETHING would be seen, and or done to appease the People! Maybe not hte whole enchilada, but at least some beans...and some chili sauce!
I'm hungry now...gotta run!!!
reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 09:59 AM by redhead57
I just checked the site and the post I will place a link to has 480 points, the other two I saw were like 30 and the other was minus over 100.
I think that it makes sense to post a reasonable letter that will be palatable to those on the site that may not be part of the movement. I feel it is counter productive to make references to alien treaties and the like as most people will not even take that seriously.
Oops, I just found the one with a far higher score, 2270 now. The link is below. I am going to forward this to everyone on my contacts list on both of my email accounts. Every bit helps.
citizensbriefingbook.change.gov...
[edit on 1/14/2009 by redhead57]
[edit on 1/14/2009 by redhead57]
I think that it makes sense to post a reasonable letter that will be palatable to those on the site that may not be part of the movement. I feel it is counter productive to make references to alien treaties and the like as most people will not even take that seriously.
Oops, I just found the one with a far higher score, 2270 now. The link is below. I am going to forward this to everyone on my contacts list on both of my email accounts. Every bit helps.
citizensbriefingbook.change.gov...
[edit on 1/14/2009 by redhead57]
[edit on 1/14/2009 by redhead57]
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