Israel Testing Nasty Weapons in Gaza, claims Medic., page 6
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reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 06:33 PM by sirbikesalot06
It really sounds like Israel is tired of dealing with people who want them dead. If I had to deal with people who want me dead on a daily basis, then I would (in a war with you) try to make sure that you will never be able to fight back ever. Thus the word EVER.
I never understood this ideal that you had to be friendly with your enemy, and try to not hurt them, but I have always saw in history that the victor is the guy who usually treats his enemy like )(*&&. He makes sure to kill every guy who hates his side before discontinue hostilities.
It is no wonder that they are using a weapon to literally kill people easily For that is the way it has always been when developing a weapon. A weapon to mane and disfigure the enemy is somewhat useful against people who want to kill you.
But lets considering these fools who are not using there noggin against a enemy with F-15, latest Artillery, and up to date accurate small arms fire. I believe the saying comes from the Movie Gladiator in which in the first part of the movie, the Roman soldier says to something like "don't they know when they are conquered." I put that to the Palestinians who should know when they are conquered and not try to resist a good democracy when they see it.
As far as I'm concern, Israel is making it harder for us to buy the fuel we need to operate our economy. Also I believe the Obama administration should not even try to broker peace between these guys. Its really a wasted effort.


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:11 PM by boaby_phet
reply to post by jam321



so, your saying, you, a proud American, who displays the flag in his very forum signature, would go against the constitution he holds so dear, go against the red white and blue and would not bear arms against an oppressing force?

I've been on this forum long enough to know thats not how it works in the good old USA ... its in your constitution to fight against oppressing forces by whatever means necessary, and yet, even though your country which you love is allowed to hold that belief, your speaking against another country with the same belief, they are trying to fight an occupying force by any means necessary. you hold true the beliefs of your own country, but when another country has the same beliefs and take action with the same form of action against another country you like, then its wrong.

really , noone in America who holds the beliefs of the us constitution true can say a dam thing about hamas or Palestinians fighting back against oppression, as your constitution tells you to do the same!

Again, your logic is flawed and the irony kills me.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by boaby_phet]

[edit on 13-1-2009 by boaby_phet]


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:22 PM by EyesWideShut
reply to post by boaby_phet



I hope you're not comparing the US constitution to Islamic Law

I'm sorry... I seemed to miss the part in the constitution where it says I am to "fight the opposition by any means necessary"

This war is about religion despite what anyone tells you.

How you would equate being patriotic to being a religious extremist is beyond me.

Semper Fidelis


maybe you ment THIS oath...

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

That I did take when I was in the Marine Corps , But before the constitution I was to follow rules of the UCMJ.... which you probably have never heard of. you can go google it and read up on it... then we can continue this debate in another thread.... go ahead , I'll wait.



[edit on 13-1-2009 by EyesWideShut]



reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:24 PM by MrPenny
Originally posted by DantesLost
Here's a strategy for you.

Israel stops destroying Palestinian homes.
Israel stops stealing homes.
Israel stops stealing more land.
Israel stops cutting off supplies.
Israel gives back land as agreed by the UN Mandate.

Hamas stops their terrorist activity because they have no reason to carry it on.


That's a start. It's not from the person I asked the question of...but it's a start. Now, how is this implemented?

Let's start with what may be some of the sticking points.....

1. "Stealing land".....this is subjective. The entire country is Israel. There is no part that is currently a non-sovereign portion of Israel. The Golan Heights may be debatable....but Syria doesn't have a pony in this race. Oh wait...of course they do...the Hamas leadership is safely housed in Damascus.

2. "Give back land".....Give back what land? Give back land that is wholly and totally Israel? You mean, give back land that some organization in a big building insists they give back? You realize, a UN mandate that "strongly deplores, deplores, demands, calls, condemns, establishes, expresses deep concern, reiterates, or declares it imperative", really doesn't have all that much authority?

3. "Stops their terrorist activity"....they can do that now. It's pointless, and results in the suffering of its innocent population. I'll remind the reader....The West Bank is not under the same military action as Gaza, despite being chock full of Palestinians. I guess there's something to be said for not lobbing munitions in your neighbors direction.

I can't argue the first point and the fourth. Yeah, don't kick people from their home and it's poor form to withhold food, water, and electricity to innocent civilians. But pragmatically, I have to recognize that war and armed conflict is not always conducted with the greatest of etiquette.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by MrPenny]

[edit on 13-1-2009 by MrPenny]


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:32 PM by boaby_phet
forgive me for being retarded, but i could have swore theirs a bit about bearing arms against oppressing forces ... am i wrong? no im not, its THE SECOND AMENDMENT

(this bit is from the second amemdment)
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


i cant say it any better than that, what else would a well regulated miltia need to bear arms against to secure a free state ??? LOL ... it will only be a free state when ppl start trying to oppress it. Dont hate on me for it, im just using this forums own gun freaks red white and blue rehtoric against yourselfs.. you cant have it both ways, according to that single line in your constitution, you are allowed to form well regulated malitia's and bear arms against any threat that your "free state" will have its security threatened.

what that single line states, is what palestinians have done and do, i would deffinitelly say at least, hamas is a well regulated malitia who have "bear arms" to "secure a free state"

(btw, my point is , so much ppl (mainly americans) have came from nowhere praising isreal for their current Genocide, and saying hamas are the bad guys and taking pleasure in their demise, yet, if they (palestinians) were also american, they would be following the constitution ... which means its not remotely fair for any american to critisize them without critisizing their own belief system, mainy aimed at jam (not a personal attack,you just are displaying the colors, yet saying that hamas are teh bad guys) ... for someone with the eagle and the star spangled banner in his forum siggy, you dont seem to be holding true the same beliefs your flag stands for. would i be right in saying those beliefs are only the correct beliefs if the person believing is american?)



[edit on 13-1-2009 by boaby_phet]

[edit on 13-1-2009 by boaby_phet]


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:38 PM by wreckage
reply to post by mrsdudara

mrsdudara said: "This is war"


I beg to differ. This is an act of nothing less than terrorism against vitual prisoners. It makes me sick.

www.medialens.org...


newmatilda.com...

Cheers.


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 07:47 PM by EyesWideShut
reply to post by boaby_phet


Thomas Jefferson,

Gun quote: No free man shall ever be de-barred the use
of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to
keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against
tyranny in government.

Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."

-- Edward Abbey, "Abbey's Road", 1979



You know why there's a Second Amendment? In case the government fails to follow the first one.

-- Rush Limbaugh, in a moment of unaccustomed profundity 17 Aug 1993

************************************************************************************

THAT my friend..... is why Americans Have Guns & the reason for the 2nd ammendment.


Edit Reason:.... I decided to forgive you for being retarded.

I'm not pro Isreal and If I had to pick a side I'd favor Hamas (I root for the underdog) I just don't think that Israel is doing anything that hasn't been done since the dawn of man.



[edit on 13-1-2009 by EyesWideShut]


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:04 PM by EyesWideShut
reply to post by boaby_phet


I understand where you're going with it and I agree for the most part Americans will agree with what the MSM feeds them. Where I disagree is that our constitution was put in place by our government. We took OUR country from YOUR country during the revolutionary war. HAMAS attacked and took control of the Gaza Strip from its existing government. (through the bootleg PLC) It was just a bad analogy. I get the intent though.


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:11 PM by Absence of Self
reply to post by Goathief


You have the best perspective of the lot I've read so far...
The rest is sickening for its moral cowardice.

Internet tough guy scenario is alive and well and... well
too much i had thought people with access to resources almost unlimited,
had out grown that.

It appears I was wrong.
Its easy for others to pick up the pieces when those pieces are presented by fox news.
A little flag of freedom and justice pinned to the limbs of a child.
Blackened limbs found in a gutter.

Its a pity that the news can't portray the the frustration.
its a pity that the news can't portray the loss.

Its a pity that the news can't portray the smell of the dead.

Terrorism via new feed, good Christ please don't make me laugh.

What would you do if you were 10 years old and one day you were walking to school and seen something shiny in the grass?
Would you approach it?
Would you take a look?

What would you do if it was an engagement ring on a mans severed finger?

Would you think it was right?
or would you think?


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:23 PM by Kailassa
Originally posted by Exuberant1
They have been using an Israeli Counter Blog program called megaphone that alerts them to any comments that might make israel look bad, or the gazans look like the victims.


The more Israel fears the truths being told in any thread,
the more Mega Phonies are summoned to squish it.

But Megaphone is not Israel's only propaganda hydrant.

There is also Primer which proudly boasts on its banner:
"A huge lie repeated often enough is accepted as truth." — Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister" and
"Unanswered media bias and misinformation repeated often enough is accepted as truth." — PRIMER"

And Dafka

Memri
Memri was found to have five Wiki editors dishonestly altering Wikipedia pages.

HonestReporting

Media Watch International

Camera

[urlelectronicintifada.net...[/url]

So it's hardly surprising if cries of "anti-semitism" abound on the internet.

[edit on 13/1/09 by Kailassa]


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:33 PM by boaby_phet
Originally posted by Kailassa



There is also Primer which proudly boasts on its banner:
"A huge lie repeated often enough is accepted as truth." — Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister" and
"Unanswered media bias and misinformation repeated often enough is accepted as truth." — PRIMER"


[edit on 13/1/09 by Kailassa]


oh my goodness... just how ironic is THAT, a Pro isreal site, with a Nazi slogan atop their page!! .. says it all really... its just plain wrong .

if theirs anything, one single good to come from this genocide, its that a good handful of disinfo types have been exposed for who they really are.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by boaby_phet]


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:40 PM by DantesLost
reply to post by MrPenny


The land I am talking about is that agreed by the UN Mandate.

Now,the usual reply to that is to say that it was fairly won land from the 6 Day War.Those who say this do not know that that war was started by Israel in Nov 1966.The Es-Samu incident involved Israeli soldiers being killed by a land mine.Israel blamed terrorists for this,but promised Jordan they wouldn't invade...which they did the very next day.At this time Jordan,Syria and Egypt had a defense treaty with each other.If one was attacked they would protect each other.Israel attacked Jordan,Egypt and Syria mobalized their armed forces,and Israel made a preemptive strike against Egypt...the rest is history.

If Jordan,Egypt and Syria had attacked without provication then the land won by Israel during the war would be rightfully theirs.But it was Israel who attacked first,therefore they have no right to keep the land they took.


Hamas could stop now,but they won't.
Why?
Because of the reasons I listed.
Would you give up fighting if that was being done to you and your people?


An example of what the Israeli government has been doing:In the last 8yrs over 3000 Palestinian homes have been destroyed and over 180,000 people have been made homeless.That figure doesn't include those people who's homes have been taken and given to Jewish families.


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 08:54 PM by dooper
reply to post by DantesLost


I was around in 1967. Don't tell me who was doing what. I recall Radio Cairo claiming that they were going to wipe Israel off the map, the hate speech from Radio Cairo.

I recall them closing the straits of Tiran against all Israeli shipping. I recall the Arab forces kicking out the UN.

I recall Egyptian President Nassar talking more crap than a Saturday night hustler. How they would destroy Israel.

Israel had intelligence officers within the senior Egyptian government, and they were well aware of the plan to attack.

I remember Egypt amassing 100,000 men, a couple thousand tanks and armored vehicles, tons of artillery, Syria's mobilization up on the border, and Jordan's mobilization.

And Israel outsmarted them. That's the only reason their vastly outnumbered forces could win. Unless the promises by their God that once returned to their land, would never, ever again be removed from it.

Yeah. I remember. So don't go saying that Israel started the whole thing. Mines, rockets, it is all the same. An attack.

You strike Israel, and they hit back hard.

Lesson to be learned: Don't mess with Israel.

Lesson over.



reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 09:03 PM by Lazyninja
Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Lazyninja


White Phosphorous and cluster bombs? Is that your claim?


Do your homework, and for God's sake, do not mistake a WP countermeasure usage by an aircraft.

You do know the difference, don't you?

Show me!

And even if you show me, which you can't - it doesn't matter. It is all legal to use. Inefficient as hell in an urban environment, but legal.

Smoke that.


It's not my claim, it's the claim of a medic.

I'm having trouble understanding your post by the way, I'm supposed to show you evidence? Check the news man, it's not my job to show you anything.

Also show some respect, I haven't even talked to you before and you start on me with a confrontational attitude.

Now I don't owe you anything, but for anyone who might think that claiming WP is used is a grand claim, unfortunately for America and Israel it's very easy to identify WP. WP attacks organic material, so when you see a corpse which looks like a 1000 year old Egyptian mummy but the clothes are totally unmarked, you know it's WP.

Originally posted by Shystargazer
I am losing my patience with all of the bleeding hearts that think that war should be fought with game rules! War is not a game! If someone hits you you hit them harder until they realize that it will keep happening if they throw another punch.


We have things like international law set in stone by the Geneva convention for good reasons. These laws were put in place because of atrocities that happened in WW1 and WW2. These laws are here to remind us for our own sakes, not for the sakes of our enemies, but to retain our own humanity and not stoop to the level of animals.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by Lazyninja]


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 09:11 PM by dooper
reply to post by Lazyninja

That's not how WP works. The WP burns until it burns out. It will burn right through an arm, assuming it is getting oxygen. The burns I've seen look nothing like a dried up Egyptian mummy.

A small amount will burn through clothing, skin, tissue, and go bone deep. You get some on you, you better get that under water, or under a sopping wet, heavy towel. And even the surgeons won't be happy to see you, for as soon as it hits oxygen again, sizzle.

Now napalm is a bit different.

Things look more like that burned chicken you forgot on the grill.


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 09:19 PM by Lazyninja
images.tribe.net...

View at your own risk.

Notice how the face is burned off by the headscarf is intact.

Now that took me under 10 seconds to find on Google.

Edit: another one

www.uruknet.info...

[edit on 13-1-2009 by Lazyninja]


reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 09:26 PM by DantesLost
reply to post by dooper



I recall them closing the straits of Tiran against all Israeli shipping. I recall the Arab forces kicking out the UN.


This happened after the 1966 incident.As tensions were mounting it would be a tactical failure to allow Israel access and the UN were asked to leave for their own safety.Look up General Mohammed Fawzy,Chief of Staff of the United Arab Republic.



Israel had intelligence officers within the senior Egyptian government, and they were well aware of the plan to attack.


Yeah,not just because of the 1966 incident but also because of the Water Disputes of 1964/65.
In 1964,Israel began withdrawing water from the Jordan River for its National Water Carrier.The following year,the Arab states began construction of the Headwater Diversion Plan,which,once completed,would divert the waters of the Banias Stream before the water entered Israel and the Sea of Galilee,to flow instead into a dam at Mukhaiba for use by Jordan and Syria,and divert the waters of the Hasbani into the Litani River,in Lebanon.The diversion works would have reduced the installed capacity of Israel's carrier by about 35%,and Israel's overall water supply by about 11%.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) attacked the diversion works in Syria in March,May,and August 1965, perpetuating a prolonged chain of border violence that linked directly to the events leading to war.




I remember Egypt amassing 100,000 men, a couple thousand tanks and armored vehicles, tons of artillery, Syria's mobilization up on the border, and Jordan's mobilization.


This too happened after the incidents of 1964/65/66.
It was why they mobilized!


Looks like you need to go back to school.
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