Israel Testing Nasty Weapons in Gaza, claims Medic.

reply to post by dooper


You want proof, here's proof.
White phosphorus being used over the city just a couple hours ago.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by SectionEight


yeah that's exactly what I'm doing....

It sounds to me that you are the one doing the justifying. I'm just saying it's a complete over-use of force/weaponary relative to what has been perpetrated on them. It's like if someone came up and punched your little brother, so you go and blow up their house....

Do you realize that Israel's death toll is close to the total amount of rockets you just posted? How was the kill-to-death ratio on those rockets? So what's "fair" for Israel then in this eye-for-an-eye situation? hasn't that already been fulfilled? Or is the a "moral" or "principle" issue, if that's the case I don't feel like arguing the bible/Koran/Torah, or which group of monkey-people conquered who how many hundreds of years ago, or which group of Jews is "real" or which is a "Zionist". All I know is a bunch of people are dying completely unnecessarily...and you seem to be okay with that.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Shakesbeer]

I am losing my patience with all of the bleeding hearts that think that war should be fought with game rules! War is not a game! If someone hits you you hit them harder until they realize that it will keep happening if they throw another punch. If it was America getting hit the first thing all of you would want to do is nuke whoever did it! Admit it!

Originally posted by SectionEight
They've launched around 800 rockets into Isreal in '08. Because their technology sucks and the death toll was low you are justifying it?

having a 8 to 9 metre wall around your neighbourhood and then having it closed off so that the Palestinians could not cross the boarder to go to work, no money coming in, no food, fuel or medical supplies coming in.
People do tend to get a little upset.
Their technology does suck because unlike Israel who is getting weapons supplied from the US and UK, Palestine are getting a few smuggled parts in to build home made rockets.
do you think that Israel would have tried the same stunt if Palestine had real weapons to defend themselves?
what would be your responce if Russia was supporting Palestine and arming them with the lates anti aircraft missiles, or WP weapons to shoot into populated Israeli settlements?
what about if Palestine smuggled in some cluster bombs, do you know what would happen?
The US would step in and call for the UN to do something and Israel would agree.
bet the US wouldn't miss that UN vote or veto it.

reply to post by ZombieSlayer


Thanks, Zombie.

Good footage. Against troops in the open, this is pretty good stuff, but not ideal. Clusters are more effective in open areas, and I can't understand why Israel doesn't just use napalm. Light things up, especially if they want to burn things.

HE is much more effective, but they must be using this as a psychological weapon. After all, at night, it's really quite a show. And tired people who can't sleep well at night after a couple weeks really get confused and lethargic.

These Hamas folks just aren't too bright.

If you are against Low Collateral Damage weapons does that not mean you prefer High Collateral Damage weapons? Just sayin? Did you actually read what you posted? Strange logic to say the least.

Originally posted by Shystargazer
War is not a game! If someone hits you you hit them harder until they realize that it will keep happening if they throw another punch. If it was America getting hit the first thing all of you would want to do is nuke whoever did it! Admit it!

Uh, no. Because I've paid attention when people taught me stuff about what nukes do to people and especially the earth(and possible "time-space" itself for that matter). Sorry man it's just you & your perception of what killing should be I guess. I'm glad you're not in charge of the "football".

And your fist-fighting analogy is glib in terms of describing the nature of the conflict in the region. Especially considering you're making an example using a conflict which the WEAPONS ARE BALANCED

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Shakesbeer]

reply to post by Blaine91555


I'm not sure if you were talking to me, but I much prefer high collateral damage weapons. Unless there's something in there I want.

War simply means two sides killing each other until one side is unable to kill further, or unwilling to die further. So the faster you kill, the faster a fight is over.

I don't know what that number is that has to die before one calls it quits, but the faster you reach it, the sooner the suffering is over.

In every conflict, there's those who would assume that collateral damage is a bad thing. Of course it is, and that is the purpose of war and engagement.

The more destructive on the front end, the less lives lost, and the less suffering over an extended period of time. You want a conclusion, not a persistent seepage.

reply to post by Shakesbeer


No, when they launched the first rocket into the sovereign state of Isreal, they became a legitimate target for full on non stop war.

BTW to the other guy, thanks for the video, that was a prime example of the consequences HAMAS brought down onto the Palestinian people. Instead of kicking HAMAS out they kiss their hands and feet as they launch more missiles. It is near impossible to feel sorry for these people. Isreal would have to firebomb the whole city in Dresdenesque style for me to giveadamn.

reply to post by SectionEight


Where were the rights of the Palestinians as they where being evicted for Israeli settlements?
where were the rights when the sanctions where imposed?

reply to post by munkey66

We're talking about Gaza, and the Israelis pulled all settlers out of Gaza and leveled their homes.

So now Gaza is all Gazan. They have their territory, it's all theirs, and they can have it.

But that's not enough. They overbred. It's getting crowded.

So now you have crowded, hungry, thirsty, stupid people.

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by SectionEight

 

Where were the rights of the Palestinians as they where being evicted for Israeli settlements?
where were the rights when the sanctions where imposed?

We can go all the way back to the Gan Muffti if you wish, but in the end Isreal is legally responding to the illegal Gaza missile attacks.

www.palestinefacts.org...

Take in a history lesson at that site.

Originally posted by SectionEight
reply to post by Shakesbeer

 

No, when they launched the first rocket into the sovereign state of Isreal, they became a legitimate target for full on non stop war.

If this is the case why is it that Britain did not do this to Northern Ireland during the last century? Why did they not build walls around Belfast, cut off all supplies going in and out, cut the electricity and then proceed to drop napalm and cluster bombs until the IRA were destroyed?

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by munkey66

 

But that's not enough. They overbred. It's getting crowded.

So now you have crowded, hungry, thirsty, stupid people.

Your bigotry is shining through: you do know about the blockade, right? As for Palestinians being stupid, I don't think you have any room to talk whatsoever.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by munkey66

 

We're talking about Gaza, and the Israelis pulled all settlers out of Gaza and leveled their homes.

So now Gaza is all Gazan. They have their territory, it's all theirs, and they can have it.

But that's not enough. They overbred. It's getting crowded.

So now you have crowded, hungry, thirsty, stupid people.

I agree with your war mentality but this post leads me to believe you have not studied the facts.

Gaza is not a country. It is an isolated little chunk of land that Israel surrounds with full control over all borders, air etc.

For fairness sake, Gaza should be part of Israel or Egypt but it is neither. It is a cattle roundup area and the Israelis hold the branding irons.

Read this page: en.wikipedia.org...
Then tell me if you were a Gazan you would have a way to over breed.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
If this is true, then Israel is using them- not testing them.

Testing wouldn't be hurting anyone, it would be done in the middle of nowhere or underground.

Oh that's just hilarious - not sure what you are doing around here but its great for a laugh.

So when we do animal tests - thats not using them. And when we do test on sample populations - then thats still not USING it - but its only USING it when - wait - ive confused myself by responding to your own mobius logic....this is what heppanes when you spend all day spewing out double speak

reply to post by SectionEight


What Israel is doing may be seemingly justified in theory, though proving that they are within legal limits is another case. Indiscrimate targeting and subsequent killing of civilians is a war crime. So is targeting medical personell. Take into account that Israel had defaulted on it's Egyptian brokered cease fire with the killing of 6 in November. Nobody should live in fear of rocket or mortar attacks, and neither should a country incite the idiots by breaking a truce agreement, be it even a temporary one.

im getting a bit p-o'd with this forum lately..

where did all these hardcore isreal supporters suddenly come from?

im nuetrel, im not a isrealy, not a palestinian, not a jew christian or muslim.

but it doesnt take a genius to see this, and the whole occuaption of palestine was wrong and bad.

the rockets excuse just does not wash "they fired rockets ect ect"

well, isreal, they shouldnt have tried to steal their home country, and its as simple as that..! isreal are just the biggest worst sort of bully their is in the world, if isreal have such a good army then they wouldnt need to use these weapons.


The opening post kind of explains what i seen on the live stream, that being a massive blue ball of while + blue light ... not like any explosion i have ever seen..

And the white phosphorus,, I can vouch for seeing it, well, it was either WP or Cluster bombs... and both of these weapons are sickening.

now, im not going to say and say anyone is right for using weapons, but just take a spet back and think WHY the palestinians felt the need to launch rockets at isreal in the first place, as they never done it for shizzles and giggles !

Originally posted by SectionEight
reply to post by Shakesbeer

 

No, when they launched the first rocket into the sovereign state of Isreal, they became a legitimate target for full on non stop war.

BTW to the other guy, thanks for the video, that was a prime example of the consequences HAMAS brought down onto the Palestinian people. Instead of kicking HAMAS out they kiss their hands and feet as they launch more missiles. It is near impossible to feel sorry for these people. Isreal would have to firebomb the whole city in Dresdenesque style for me to giveadamn.

"They"...
I keep seeing this,
"They" as in Hamas?
Are Hamas little kids?
Are they the women who spend the majority of their time protecting those kids and trying to provide for them in extremely difficult circumstances?

You seem to think that this only involves Hamas and Israel.
You're quick to talk about the innocent Israelis being bombed, but completely refuse to recognize the innocent people in Gaza being killed.

Just like so many others, you resolutely refuse to even acknowledge that Israel is killing innocent people in Gaza without restraint, hundreds of them. The kids there have no affiliation to Hamas. What did they do to deserve your condemnation?

What did the women and kids in Gaza do to you for you to feel such disregard for their existence?

It's very worrying to see anyone think of others in such a callous way. While I don't understand what leads a Human to launch rockets on civilians, or an army to kill children, I equally don't understand what makes a Human so empty inside. It truly shocks me that any person could stand by as an outsider and watch this happening, and feel little sadness or sympathy for those within Gaza.

I try to imagine that these people are rare, but the fact that anyone is able to support Israel during this time is scary.

Originally posted by boaby_phet
im getting a bit p-o'd with this forum lately..

where did all these hardcore isreal supporters suddenly come from?

They have been using an Israeli Counter Blog program called megaphone that alerts them to any comments that might make israel look bad, or the gazans look like the victims.

This is from their website called GIYUS - and it puts things into perspective:

"GIYUS it turns out is an acronym for Give Israel Your United Support. And here is what is displayed on the front page of GIYUS.org.

Today's conflicts are won by public opinion.
Now is the time to be active and voice Israel's side to the world.

Join the effort in 3 easy steps:

1. Download and install Megaphone desktop tool
2. Receive desktop alerts on key articles and surveys
3. Click alerts to easily voice your opinion"


**This explains the sudden influx of ardent pro-israel propagandists on most sites, even this one.

If I were conducting a war, I would use whichever weapons I believed would allow me to further my goals.

Whether the weapon in question is white phosphorous or teenagers with bomb vests, if I'm at war I'm doing whatever I believe it takes to win.