Israel feels hurt by global condemnation

I don't think shooting round after round of white phosphorus into a town is being discrete about your targets.

Also, why did the IDF pack 100 people into a house and say they were helping evacuate civilians, and then go ahead and bomb the house the very next day????



[edit on 13-1-2009 by DerekJR321]

Their leaders! Okay! You're not a jew hater, are you? Of course not!

I'm hittin' the sack.

White phosphorus is being used in Gaza, a densely populated area. That is a violation of the Geneva convention of 1980. Israel is trying to skirt that CCW restriction by saying that it is using the WP as a smoke screen. They learned that tactic very well from the US, who used WP in Fallujah:
Here is the double talk that the US used to squirm out of being accused of war crimes:
www.independent.co.uk...



Notice how the story changed several times. Israel learned from that, and immediately went to the smoke bomb defense. You see, the US doesn't just give Israel the weapons, it also provides them with the appropriate excuses to use, if they are accused of war crimes.

TheColdDragon has it pretty much nailed. As far as global condemnation is concerned, if I'm considered as part of the global community, I'm in on that. I hereby condemn them. If I hurt their feelings, so much the better. It's the least I can do given the situation. No hatred involved on my part.

You know, with some of the Israeli supporters claiming that anyone that opposes Israel is anti-Semitic, I wonder if all of us would be accused of "hate crimes" if the new Hate Bill introduced into Congress by Sheila-Jackson Kee becomes law.
Kind of interesting how it is timed with the anti-Israeli sentiment going on now.

No I can't. Because I don't believe they are just shooting randomly.

However I do believe they are specifically using WP for a REASON. If they are aiming at one building that perhaps ONE Hamas member is in, there is no reason to use a 3-shell burst of WP. They are using it as an incendiary round, period.

Shooting during the day proves they are not using it for night time illumination. And I don't for one second believe that any military would use WP as a smoke screen in an urban environment. It is not effective.

So what does that leave? It leaves the IDF firing WP into a town indiscriminately. I say that because WP air burst is not an accurate round. You can not be precise with an air burst round at all. So why? Why are they using it??

Why is it that its Ok to blatantly murder in the name of religion and not OK to post personal views condemning such actions on ATS? ATS is an intelligent, open forum for discussion, of course there will be a vast majority that will appear anti-Semitic due to their posts, why, because once again people are being murdered in their hundreds, in today's allegedly "civilised" world, in the name of religion, it wouldn't matter what the religion is, mass murder is just that, irrelevant of what beliefs instigated the act.

So for the sake of all those compassionate people (not) that don't like anti-murder posts, IRRELEVANT OF THEIR RELIGION, lets pretend that murdering innocent men, women and children is a really good thing and write some special lovely words on ATS, just in case they should be offended by the response of ATS members with compassion over the actions of their religion, whatever that may be.

You!

Who is without sin! you may cast the first stone!

I pitty Israel, they are just retaliating to the hamas attacks didn't they?
I mean, cannot you nowadays protect you own?
is it wrong to fight back when you are in danger?
Hamas have muscle and people, instead of crying like babies,
just put together a GENIUS plan to overtake the Israelites?
that would be very logical and practical thing to do wouldn't it?

I will go over to the Police station today and throw rocks at them
let's see if they retaliated or not, Wish me luck guys!

Oh, I see. The Police in your metaphor are the Israelis and you're a stone-throwing Arab.

You left a few things out though. The Arab didn't go to the Police station and start throwing rocks.
The Arab was living in his home when the Police threw him out and moved in themselves, kindly letting him and his family live in the back yard.
Next the Police got their co-workers to put up houses for themselves in your backyard, driving you into a corner.
Then the Police got annoyed at your protests, and built a wall to cut you off from your water tap and your vegetable garden.

Now they are annoyed at you throwing rocks at their window, so they are killing your children.

Meanwhile the Police are still playing the victim card to the rest of the world, hoping no-one will realise they just want to be rid of the Arab family for good and have the whole property, including the water tap, to themselves.

reply to post by dooper

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Technically speaking you are correct but we are not talking about a classic war between two countries. Are gaza and palestine seperate, sovereign countries? I think you know the answer to that!

Yes SOME people, within these two REGIONS of israel, immensely dislike israeli jews and fire home-made rockets at random points within the "mainland" so in effect we are talking about a civil conflict, or civil war if thats what you prefer.

If america was fighting blacks within a major city would f-16's be bombing homes, factories, churches, schools or any other building you can think of? Or would they call the riot police and/or at most the national guard to round up any trouble-makers?

I realise the situation in Israel is quite different in that we have arabs on one side and jews on the other and both hate each other but still you don't bomb your "own" citizens for christ sake. Like I said there are many more efficient and LEGAL ways to deal with the situation with far fewer casualties on BOTH SIDES!

I really do think Israel is using hamas, or more correctly LETTING HAMAS be aggressive because that in turn would allow the zionist agenda of EXPANSION to proceed without any hiccups. What better way to camouflague a secret agenda then to say "we are fighting terror"

Anyway one looks at the situation IT STINKS PROFUSELY! It is no coincidence that the world is condeming israel for their poor behavior. A few years ago if you asked me what I thought I could have gone along with "they are simply defending themselves" but such a loopsided casualty ratio and the tactics employed by the IDF smell a hidden agenda.

If this not the case I suggest Israel change their ways because terror will only get worse with these atrocities being committed in gaza. Last year they did the same damage to lebanon but at least that WAS a legitimate war between two countries. A conflict with gaza is a domestic issue and should be treated as such.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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At the end of the day, the hidden and long past reasons for fighting are inconsequential.

Once attacked in any manner, one is free to stop the attacks against his person, his country, his nation.

Once a decision to counterattack is made, it should be a purely military operation. The goal in a military operation is to destroy the enemy.

To not use any weapon in the arsenal is to cause unnecessary casualties for your own side. From a moral standpoint, to use less than everything in your arsenal is a morally wrong decision that works against your own people.

Civilians, or non-combatants have been getting killed during conflict since the first caveman, rared back to throw a rock, and mistakenly took out the back of his buddy's head.

To tell the truth, from a purely military standpoint, Israel is fighting this fight very inefficiently.

They have allowed political considerations to negate the military necessity. Military necessity requires a conclusion. And you can't have a conclusion until you have destroyed the other side.

When Russia entered Berlin, they pursued a purely military approach. Nothing mattered except victory. They quite correctly, destroyed and destroyed until all surrendered and there were no more to fight.

Israel has not elected to do this.

And so this conflict will continue.

And thousands more will suffer for many years to come.

You call that humanitarian?

reply to post by dooper

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I am looking at the conflict from a legal perspective while you choose to ignore this aspect. The question is *why*? Do you really think this is irrellevant? Are gaza, palestine and israel truely *seperate countries*?

You do realise that israeli officials may someday face a war crimes tribunal, don't you? Not because they don't have a right to defend themselves but because their methods are illegal.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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I think this is part of the problem. Misunderstanding of principles. An inability to separate military versus civic virtues.

War has no legal perspective. Militarily speaking, anyone that says there are rules in war or fighting are delusional. Rules extend the suffering in numbers and the length of hostilities.

One of the great military analysts Clausewitz wrote:

"Now, philanthropists may easily imagine there is a skillful method of disarming and overcoming an enemy without causing great bloodshed, and that this is the proper tendency of the Art of War. However plausible this may appear, it is an error that must be extirpated . . ."

Marcus Tullius Cicero wrote millennia ago that "Laws are inoperative in war."

But the greatest among the Masters of Warfare (Sun Tzu) wrote: (ways a sovereign can bring disaster to his army)

"By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the condition that obtain in an army. This causes restlessness in the soldier's mind. Humanity and Justice are the principles on which to govern a state, but not an army; opportunity and flexibility on the other hand, are military rather than civic virtues."

Civic, peacetime virtues are polar opposites from military virtues. On a battlefield, the concept of justice is nonexistent. There is no justice in war.

There is supposed to be only focused destruction, and you are supposed to be on the giving end or the receiving end.

You make up your mind, and you follow through, or you allow a state of perpetual misery to continue unabated.


[edit on 14-1-2009 by dooper]

Like rockets don't have no name israel do not have any evidence that it was shot off solely by some Hamas members.

Best regards.

Loke.

You and your "You have no proof the israel did this" or the other famous "Bullets do not carry names on it"....

Stop it already please, most of us has figured out that you either works for mossad or are somehow related with zionist.

Best regards.

Loke.