Hanoi Jane...traitor

I received this from a friend, and I wanted to pass it along so it gets as much coverage as I can contribute. War is ugly, but what this woman did, was uglier...

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In Memory of


my brother -in- law


LT. C.Thomsen Wieland


who spent 100 days at the Hanoi Hilton




IF YOU NEVER FORWARDED



ANYTHING IN YOUR LIFE FORWARD THIS SO THAT EVERYONE WILL KNOW!!!!!!






She really is a traitor

A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED
KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA


This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do
not remember, and didn't have to bear the
burden that our fathers, mothers and older
brothers and sisters had to bear.


Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the
'100 Women of the Century.'

BY BARBRA WALTERS

Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still
countless others have never known how Ms.
Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,
but specific men who served and sacrificed
during Vietnam


The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot.


The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.


In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF
Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison
the ' Hanoi Hilton.'


Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell,
cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was
ordered to describe for a visiting American
'Peace Activist' the 'lenient and humane
treatment' he'd received.


He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was
dragged away.
During the subsequent beating, he fell forward
on to the camp Commandant 's feet, which
sent that officer berserk.


In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from
double vision (which permanently ended his
flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied
application of a wooden baton.


From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the
47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the
'Hanoi Hilton', the first three of which his
family only knew he was 'missing in action'.
His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.
His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and
clothed routine in preparation for a
'peace delegation' visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to
get word to the world that they were alive
and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny
piece of paper, with his Social Security Number
on it, in the palm of his hand.


When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a
cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each
man's hand and asking little encouraging
snippets like: 'Aren't you sorry you bombed
babies?' and, 'Are you grateful for the humane
treatment from your benevolent captors?'
Believing this HAD to be an act, they each
palmed her their sliver of paper.

She took them all without missing a beat. At the
end of the line and once the camera stopped
rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs,
she turned to the officer in charge and handed
him all the little pieces of paper.


Three men died from the subsequent beatings.
Colonel Carrigan was almost number four
but he survived, which is the only reason we
know of her actions that day.


I was a civilian economic development advisor
in Vietnam , and was captured by the North
Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in
1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.


I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one
year in a cage in Cambodia ; and one year
in a 'black box' in Hanoi .
My North Vietnamese captors deliberately
poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a
nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South
Vietnam , whom I buried in the jungle near the
Cambodian border.
At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs.
(My normal weight is 170 lbs.)


We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'


When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi , I was asked by
the camp communist political officer if I would
be willing to meet with her.


I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real
treatment we POWs received...and how
different it was from the treatment purported by
the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as
'humane and lenient.'


Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky
floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched
with a large steel weights placed on my hands,
and beaten with a bamboo cane.


I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda
soon after I was released. I asked her
if she would be willing to debate me on TV.
She never did answer me.


These first-hand experiences do not exemplify
someone who should be honored as part
of '100 Years of Great Women.'
Lest we forget...'100 Years of Great Women'
should never include a traitor whose hands are
covered with the blood of so many patriots.


There are few things I have strong visceral
reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in
blatant treason, is one of them.
Please take the time to forward to as many
people as you possibly can.
It will eventually end up on her computer and
she needs to know that we will never forget.
RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF
716 Maintenance Squadron, Chief of
Maintenance
DSN: 875-6431
COMM: 883-6343


PLEASE HELP BY SENDING THIS TO
EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. IF
ENOUGH PEOPLE SEE THIS MAYBE HER
STATUS WILL CHANGE

That was the most heartless, soulless, arrogant woman of her day. She shamed her country, her fellow Americans, and in all likelihood, her father.

When I was in Special Forces at Fort Bragg, she would come and hold rallies just outside the base. A lot of guys went to see her, just to say they saw Jane Fonda.

Not me.

In any other time period, she would have been executed for treason, aiding and comforting the enemy, and directly causing the deaths of soldiers.

She better hope she never gets stranded, and is hitchhiking on the side of the road when I come along.

Her, Hayden, Abbie Hoffman, Pete Seegar, Joan Baez, Barry Crumb, John Kerry, and others of similar ilk can burn in hell for all I care.

And the sooner the better.

reply to post by dooper


It really is too damn bad we don't brand traitors for what they are anymore and deal with them in the traditional sense...execution.

Left wing scum is destroying this country and needs to be dealt with once and for all!

Is standing up for what you believe in now a capital offence? If peace activists wish to talk to their own governments enemies to try and bring about peace does that make them a traitor?
Surely supporting war just because your government has some beef with somebody on another continent is shortsighted. What about all the current anti-war activists? Are they too traitors for not supporting it?

Why should everyone support war and death simply because it is their own country's armed forces fighting and dying? There has to be a damned good reason for going to war and people are free, are they not, to make up their own minds about whether it is right or just?

I am vehemently anti-war and will not support my governments foreign campaigns for corporate greed and power. If someone attempts to harm me or my loved ones or invade my country then that's a different matter entirely.

She did what she felt was right and paid the price for it by being treated as one of the most despicable people in America.

Say what you like about her, but she was brave. (And foolish)

Funny how even after all these years people are still bashing on Jane Fonda rather than actually looking at the political and economic facts of that war and seeing if what she said had any basis in truth.

I agree it is wrong to lump all soldiers into one group and condemn them for things that are not their fault. Many of them did not want to be there, they were drafted. However, the guys I started working with in construction were mostly Vietnam vets, and if you think all the soldiers over there were saints you are sorely misguided. Some of the guys I know were more traumatized by what they saw their own people doing than the fact of being in a war itself.

War is ugly. And people are individuals. Jane Fonda was a young, brash, women who shot her mouth off and generalized where she should have been more discerning in her criticism. She is not the devil, nor is she today the person she was then. Life changes people. Accept that and move on yourself.

I am sorry you lost a loved one to that conflict. A lot of people did on both sides. It sucks. Jane Fonda did not cause that war, and if you are looking for someone to vent your anger on, I would say it is more reasonable that you blame the people who started that crap rather than her.

After reading about the Gulf of Tonkin incident (and many other false-flag ops) I am not so quick to judge people on their actions either for or against the government or it's actions.

Better to get all the facts first (although nearly impossible)

Another thing you might want to do before engaging in character assassination is some fact checking. After 1 minute with google;

www.snopes.com...

If you take the time to read the Snopes piece, you will see that even men who were actually there, (not heasrsay) said that she was never passed pieces of paper. They also said no one was ever beaten to the point of double vision.

Edit to add;

If you read further, the men named in the hoax being forwarded via email on the net have pleaded with the public NOT to perpetuate the hoax as it causes them personal problems and makes them responsible for having to repeatedly deal with people asking them about it.

If you want to honor these men, how about by listening to their wishes and not perpetrating myths. She did enough that she really is accountable for without having to add more fuel to the fire.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

Isn't posting an obvious hoax against the T&C?
I guess some of it is true. She did go to Hanoi and she did speak against the war.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

I was a kid fighting over there. As soldiers, we fight who we're told to fight. We're out there struggling, cursing, and bleeding while that bitch is working against us.

Yeah. She can have her opinion.

And I can have mine.

If I'd had her in my sights while she was posing at the AA gun, we'd have forgotten her long ago.

You can hate war, you can dislike the destruction of war, and you can hate the soldiers.

But you owe your way of life to those who conduct war successfully. Like it or not.

Originally posted by dooper

Yeah. She can have her opinion.

And I can have mine.

If I'd had her in my sights while she was posing at the AA gun, we'd have forgotten her long ago.

I am glad you didnt have her in your sights, because while she would have been dead, your life would have been the worse for it too.

You absolutely have the right to be angry at her. I would not argue with that. She is paying the price for what she did, and maybe for you it is not high enough, but I would argue that being hated so loudly and so long is a higher price than simply being shot would have been.

I also do not believe that the way she handled her objection to the war was a very good one. It did increase the suffering of our soldiers. My objection to this piece is that it is making what she did even more despicable than what she actually did. If you are going to hate her, hate what she really did, not a lie about what she did.

If it were me, I would choose to forgive her. Not for her sake, but for my own. Hate does bad things to the person who holds it. You dont forgive someone for their sake, you forgive them for your own.

Fonda has repeatedly apologised for her conduct in 1972 ... 21 years ago she made the following statement.

I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families. I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless...

She appears genuine. But such contrition doesn't necessarily excuse the things she said or did. She's done little, if anything, in the intervening period to make amends with Vietnam veterans for her actions. On that I think she can be reasonably criticised.

reply to post by Niall197


That just isn't true, she has been confronted by, and spoken in front of, many many vets, offered endless apologies and explanations. Her intentions were very true, but she was naive and unfortunately manipulated, as shown in the infamous photo she references.

This was a BIG deal for her that hasn't gone away, she's spent her entire life since addressing it, and dealing with the repercussions of good old "media spin", which of course was going strong at the time.

She wasn't sorry. She's an actress.

You don't make mistakes of that caliber and then decades later realize you may have made a mistake and then apologize.

You bump into someone, you apologize. You step on a foot, or cut someone off, you apologize. You congratulate a woman for her pregnancy, and she isn't pregnant, you apologize.

You don't go for years on a campaign of treasonous behavior, have a change of heart, and then many years later apologize.

And the suggestion that if I had her in my sights while she was behind the sights on that AA gun, I would have made a mistake?

That's one mistake I could have lived with.

Easy.

Originally posted by Britguy
Is standing up for what you believe in now a capital offence? If peace activists wish to talk to their own governments enemies to try and bring about peace does that make them a traitor?
Surely supporting war just because your government has some beef with somebody on another continent is shortsighted. What about all the current anti-war activists? Are they too traitors for not supporting it?

Why should everyone support war and death simply because it is their own country's armed forces fighting and dying? There has to be a damned good reason for going to war and people are free, are they not, to make up their own minds about whether it is right or just?

I am vehemently anti-war and will not support my governments foreign campaigns for corporate greed and power. If someone attempts to harm me or my loved ones or invade my country then that's a different matter entirely.


You're an idiot!