It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

WWII-Era Mass Grave Believed to Contain 1,800 Germans

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 01:36 PM
link   

WWII-Era Mass Grave Believed to Contain 1,800 Germans


www.foxnews.com

WARSAW, Poland — Construction workers have unearthed a World War II-era mass grave containing what are believed to be the bodies of 1,800 German men, women and children near Poland's border with Germany, authorities said Monday.

Poles excavating the site of a planned luxury hotel in Malbork excavated the wartime bomb crater at the foot of the city's famous 13th century Teutonic Knights fortress in October.

It was not immediately clear how the bodies got there, but initial examinations by Polish and German experts have now concluded that they are likely the remains of German citizens still classified as "missing" more than 60 years after the end of the war, town official Piotr Szwedowski told The Associated Press. The town was part of Germany at the time.

(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 01:36 PM
link   
As the bodies have been found stripped of all their clothing jewelry and even dentures could it be possible that these poor souls are Jewish? I wonder how many more mass graves there must be all over those Eastern Europe countries.

I wonder if it will be possible to identify any of the remains and let families not what happened to their loved ones.

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 01:40 PM
link   
That's really weird. Either Jews, or maybe some troops invading Germany killed non-Jews, or maybe a village died of disease...
That's weird.

Edit- I wonder if the people classified as "missing" were Jewish. It should say in the records that they have about those missing people.

[edit on 1/12/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 01:52 PM
link   
From text of the link i read that it is suspected that people buried are actually German citizens from near-by ex-German town , and article suggests that those people could be missing citizens whose fate is not known after Soviet forces took the town.Maybe i do not understand it correctly? English is not my native language.
I think that it is pretty weird - bullet holes can be explained if it were Soviet forces. But removal of all things, including dentures? And how it can be established when those people died if they have nothing on them?
Anyway, another sad sick stuff from WW2. Wars suck! Understatement.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 01:52 PM
link   
C'mon guys, read a book or something. Jews were not the only people to suffer during the second world war. The advancing Russians were none too kind to the Poles and Germans they encountered along the way. Looting was rampant and millions were raped or murdered, all of which was conveniently swept under the rug in the glow of the post war era.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Orwells Ghost]



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 01:57 PM
link   
reply to post by Orwells Ghost
 


You're probably right, but "WWII Era" is really vague. Lots of German civilians, soldiers, Jews, Christians, prisoners are still missing. Who knows which "missing" group we're talking about?



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:03 PM
link   
I agree. A story not known to most, is that German civilians fleeing from Prussia to the Western German territories were literally slaughtered on their way, while girls and grannies were rapid by the advancing Soviet Troops.

Edit:



'They raped every German female from eight to 80'



"Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis."

The Soviet armies advancing into East Prussia in January 1945, in huge, long columns, were an extraordinary mixture of modern and medieval: tank troops in padded black helmets, Cossack cavalrymen on shaggy mounts with loot strapped to the saddle, lend-lease Studebakers and Dodges towing light field guns, and then a second echelon in horse-drawn carts. The variety of character among the soldiers was almost as great as that of their military equipment. There were freebooters who drank and raped quite shamelessly, and there were idealistic, austere communists and members of the intelligentsia appalled by such behaviour.

snip...

Estimates of rape victims from the city's two main hospitals ranged from 95,000 to 130,000. One doctor deduced that out of approximately 100,000 women raped in the city, some 10,000 died as a result, mostly from suicide. The death rate was thought to have been much higher among the 1.4 million estimated victims in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. Altogether at least two million German women are thought to have been raped, and a substantial minority, if not a majority, appear to have suffered multiple rape.

Source





[edit on 12-1-2009 by Mdv2]



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:07 PM
link   
Yes the important thing here is all the clothes and personal effects are missing, if these people died in a bombardment you would expect them to be buried in what they were wearing so its suspicious from the start. Its possible they could have been Killed by the Russians but other than personal effects they were not in the habit of stripping people of their clothes but the Nazis were.

There is plenty of film footage of naked men women and children being led to killing pits to be shot in the back of the head and sometimes burried whilst still alive. There are stories of survivors from these killings who managed to dif themselves out so there is first hand knowledge of these atrocities.

Also I don't think the conquering Russians would have even bothered to bury the bodies of Germans who had been killed in a bombardment. This has all the hal;lmarks of the Einstzgruppen.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:08 PM
link   
After reading as to what the russian army did to the berliners when they `took` the city i would be inclined these poor people were bulldozed into a hole and covered - literally

the red army wanted revenge on the germans after what the germans did to russian people - i would suggest reading about the assault on berlin - and the biggest organised rape in history to give an idea ; if it was female , it was raped age was no question.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:10 PM
link   
Don't forget that the Nazis moved many German Jews Eastward before they murdered most of them. There are hundreds of such pits filled with the bodies of Jews, Russians, Poles and any others who did not fit the Nazi mould.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:12 PM
link   
It probably doesn't matter if they're Russian. Usually invading armies do strip their victims of their things. And even if the soldiers personally didn't take the stuff, maybe robbers did afterwards.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:12 PM
link   
Mushroom, we're not talking about bombardments and bombing. We are talking about flat out murder. The Russians gleefully pillaged under the pretense of vengeance. Also, I am fairly certain that the Soviets would have buried the bodies. They couldn't have their troops occupying a pile of corpses; wouldn't be good for the health you know.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Orwells Ghost]



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:13 PM
link   
Harlequin yes those actions were well documented but that only really happened inside of Germany not elsewhere. And despite Stalins orders for his troops not to act in a barbaric way they did, young and old no one was spared. A few women and girls managed to escape by dressing as men and boys but only a few.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Also I don't think the conquering Russians would have even bothered to bury the bodies of Germans who had been killed in a bombardment. This has all the hal;lmarks of the Einstzgruppen.


Who says the Soviets buried them? If you are living as civilians being, in a place with over a million corpses, you must bury them for the matter of disease risks.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:17 PM
link   
the article states that they could have been victims of Russain artillery and yes soldiers do loot and pillage but not usally clothes, jewelry watches etc. of course they take them. But it would appear at least initially that these people were rounded up stripped and then murdered. No Germans would have stayed around waiting to be murdered by the Russians.

One the ruskies started moving to the West most Germans went in the same direction althought here were pockets that were overun.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:21 PM
link   
Mass burials take place to hide a crime. When large numbers of civilians are killed they are usually burnt to stop the spread of disease not buried. But of course some were. The Nazis after mudering and burying many tens of thousands then dug the bodies up to burn the evidence in the face of the oncoming Russians. Basically trying to hide what thy had done.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by magicmushroom
the article states that they could have been victims of Russain artillery and yes soldiers do loot and pillage but not usally clothes, jewelry watches etc. of course they take them. But it would appear at least initially that these people were rounded up stripped and then murdered. No Germans would have stayed around waiting to be murdered by the Russians.

One the ruskies started moving to the West most Germans went in the same direction althought here were pockets that were overun.


Seriously mushroom, please educate yourself.

WARNING SOURCE CONTAINS GRAPHIC MATERIAL

Those who did not flee, suffered by taking the burden of Red Army's occupying rules: Murder, rape, robbery, and expulsion. For example, in the East Prussian city of Königsberg, in August 1945 there were approximately 100,000 German civilians still living there after the Red Army had conquered the city. When the Germans were finally expelled from Königsberg in 1948, only about 20,000 were still alive (see also: expulsion of Germans after World War II).

Source



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:28 PM
link   
whilst we hear about the jews - we never hear of the estimated 6 million german girls and women raped , and the millions that died as a result.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Mdv2
 


No, that can't be right though.
We know those people are dead, not categorized as the "missing" who the source seems to think were found.



posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 02:30 PM
link   
reply to post by Harlequin
 


I see in the sources above about 200,000 raped and/or murdered. While still horrible, and I think we do know about this and remember it, it is not quite in the millions. About 1/5 of a million.



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join