2012 End of the world...how can anyone take this seriously?

Really, is anyone absolutely convinced this will without a doubt happen? I for one, am absolutely convinced that nothing will happen, at all, and this is all a load of over played over talked about scaremongering crap. In fact how many times have ATS'ers seen "doomsday" prophecies come true since it was first created on the internet? I think the answer would be very few...

Here's why I dont take 2012 seriously. Each of the following is just one of the hundreds of doomsday prophecies which have not occured.

About 90 AD: Saint Clement 1 predicted that the world end would occur at any moment

365 : Hilary of Poitiers, announced that the end would happen that year. Obviously he was wrong

375 to 400 : Saint Martin of Tours, a student of Hilary, was convinced that the end would happen sometime before 400 CE. He was also wrong.....sheeple

1000-JAN-1: Was thought to be the end of the world by Christians in Europe. Was interesting because they actually attacked the pagan European countries in order to convert them before Christ returned....

1000-MAY: The body of Charlemagne was disinterred on Pentecost. A legend had arisen that an emperor would rise from his sleep to fight the Antichrist....errr

1033: Despite Jesus' date of death not being officially known, this year was assumed to be the 1000th year of his execution, and he was supposed to have resurrected....again, it didnt happen

1179: John of Toledo predicted the end of the world during 1186. This estimate was based on the alignment of many planets. This was the first of few astronomical predictions

1284: Pope Innocent III added 666 to the date at which Islam was founded and stated this year would be the end of the world....Anyone noticing a religious trend here

1524: Many astrologers predicted the imminent end of the world due to a world wide flood. They obviously had not read the Genesis story of the rainbow.

1533: Melchior Hoffman predicted that Jesus' 1500 years after he was killed, apparently the "New Jerusalem" was supposed to have been established in Germany.

1669: The Old Believers in Russia believed that the end of the world would occur in this year. 20 thousand burned themselves to death between 1669 and 1690 to protect themselves from the Antichrist. Please! Nobody follow these people

1830: A christian "prophetess" by the name of Margaret McDonald, alleged that New Harmony creator (an envisoned utopican community, lol), Robert Owen was the anti-christ

1843-MAR-21: William Miller, founder of the Millerite movement, predicted that Jesus would come on this date. A very large number of Christians accepted his prophecy.
1844-OCT-22: When Jesus did not return, Miller predicted this new date. In an event which is now called "The Great Disappointment," many Christians sold their property and possessions, quit their jobs and prepared themselves for the second coming. Nothing happened; the day came and went without incident.

Starting to sound familiar?

1919: Albert Porter (a meteorologist of all things...) predicted the sun would explode (and engulf the earth) due to planet alignment producing an enormous magnetic current.

1936: Herbert W Armstrong, founder of the Worldwide Church of God, predicted that the Day of the Lord would happen sometime in 1936. Nothing much happened that year, except for the birth of the compiler of this list -- who has been referred to as an Anti-Christ. When the prediction failed, he made a new estimate: 1975.

Seems to be a trend doesnt there with the new predictions...

1940 or 1941: A Bible teacher from Australia, Leonard Sale-Harrison, predicted that the end of the world would happen in 1940 or 1941.

1948: During this year, the state of Israel was founded. Some Christians believed that this event was the final prerequisite for the second coming of Jesus. Various end of the world predictions were made in the range 1888 to 2048.

1959: Florence Houteff's, who was the leader of the Branch Davidians faith group, prophesied that the 1260 days mentioned in Revelation 11:3 would end and the Kingdom of David would be established on 1959-APR-22. Followers expected to die, be resurrected, and transferred to Heaven. Many sold their possessions and moved to Mt. Carmel in anticipation of the "end time". It didn't happen. The group almost did not survive; only a few dozen members remained. Whoops....

1970's: The late Moses David (formerly David Berg) was the founder of the Christian religious group, The Children of God. Apparently a comet was supposed to smash into the earth during the 1970's and destroy it...

1975: This was an unoffical date given by Jehovas witnesses

1982: Astronomers John Gribben & Setphen Plagemann predicted the "Jupiter Effect" in 1974. They wrote that when various planets were aligned on the same side of the sun, tidal forces would create solar flares, radio interruptions, rainfall and temperature disturbances and massive earthquakes. The planets did align as seen from earth, as they do regularly. Nothing unusual happened.

1986: Moses David of The Children of God faith group (you would think they would learn the first time, lol) prophecised that the battle of Armageddon would take place between the USA and Russia, where Russia would win, and christ would subsequently return to Earth in 1993

About 1990: Peter Ruckman concluded from his analysis of the Bible that the rapture would come within a few years of 1990. He was wrong to..

2000: I remeber watching a show on psychics about numerous things that would happen on 1st of Jan 2000....well they were all wrong werent they

So to all you believers/ doomsayers, with many many many failed prophecies of doomsday, how can everyone be so gullible to believe in this?

Thoughts?

References:

www.religioustolerance.org...

www.abhota.info...

Good point, but how could anybody believe in God or Aliens. All of our assumptions we don't have answers for are far fetched.

Cant speak for others but the only thing I firmly believe in is the fact that 2012 is the end of the count of the Mayan calander, which their texts clearly state thats what it is, and a begining of a new count. As far as planitary alignments are concerned, the Aztec's and Mayans were extremely accurate about those sort of things..considering that their whole Mesoamerican calander system was based on astrological observations covering a span of centuries of study.

As to the rest, the doomsday scenario...who really knows. When Dec 22nd 2012 rolls around we all should have a better idea about it then.



Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by RFBurns
Cant speak for others but the only thing I firmly believe in is the fact that 2012 is the end of the count of the Mayan calander, which their texts clearly state thats what it is, and a begining of a new count. As far as planitary alignments are concerned, the Aztec's and Mayans were extremely accurate about those sort of things..

That is a good point actually

I know you're pretty read up on the calender business, but I do remeber hearing somewhere that 2012 wasnt actually the end of the Mayan calender, but rather a misinterpretation, will see if I can find the link

What people choose to believe is their business. Personally I enjoy reading about the different theories and do hope a number are just that, theories.

I do have a problem with people who call people names or categorize people because they feel strongly about a subject.

I am curious as to why it bothers some to a point where they have to point it out.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Good point, but how could anybody believe in God or Aliens. All of our assumptions we don't have answers for are far fetched.

Well you make a good point to on that, I suppose the existence in god is down to faith, and the existence of aliens is down to personal experience or scientific evidence.

Most predictions however seem to be down to assumptions or delusions

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

So to all you believers/ doomsayers, with many many many failed prophecies of doomsday, how can everyone be so gullible to believe in this?

Thoughts?

Well, to begin with, my first thought is that an appeal to history is a logical fallacy.

www.criticalthinking.org.uk...

There are two types of appeal to history. The first is committed by arguments that use past cases as a guide to the future. This is the predictive appeal to history fallacy. Just because something has been the case to date, doesn’t mean that it will continue to be the case.

This is not to say that we can’t use the past as a guide to the future, merely that predictions of the future based on the past need to be treated with caution.

As noted however, the fact that the logic is fallacious does not mean that in this case you may not be right.

My second thought is that the one "fact" (which turned out not to be factual) that made me consider even for a short while that perhaps SOMETHING could happen (though I was not an end of the worlder) was that the Sun was supposed to line up with the galactic center and this happened approximately every 26,000 years or so. That made me consider that perhaps it could have some effect upon the Earth or the Sun much like the position of the moon can affect tides or the way the Earth moves can affect seasons, etc.

However I ran across a claim that this line up had already happened on another thread and decided at that point not to be lazy and satisfy for myself if it had indeed already occurred, and it seems as though it has. May 7, 1998 appears to be the actual date it occurred.

2012wiki.com...

The precise alignment of the solstice point (the precise center-point of the body of the sun as viewed from earth) with the Galactic equator was calculated to occur in 1998 (Jean Meeus, Mathematical Astronomy Morsels, 1997 - mentioned by Jenkins at alignment2012.com... ). This date was further refined by Smelyakov to May 7 1998 (tech.groups.yahoo.com...). Therefore, if the significance of 2012 is related to a precise intersecting of the Galactic Equator, whatever that significance would have meant would already have occurred.

So, for me, the mistaken thought that there was a predictable physical occurrence, that happened only once every 26,000 and so was out of the realm of recorded history led me to accept the possibility that something MIGHT occur when that event happened in 2012. Now, knowing that the event has already occurred without incident, (unless a virgin birth happened that we are not yet aware of) I no longer hold any expectation at all that 2012 will be in any way extraordinary because of the Dec, 21 (23) 2012 date.



Edit to add;

If I were to come across even more compelling evidence that the May 7, 1998 date were in fact incorrect, and that 2012 actually WAS the alignment date, I would again consider the possibility that something COULD occur.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

So to all you believers/ doomsayers, with many many many failed prophecies of doomsday, how can everyone be so gullible to believe in this?

Thoughts?

why is it there are all those failed prophetic interpetations?
is it from reading the clues incorrectly?

or is it just a matter of 'Garbage In - Garbage Out'

Originally posted by St Udio
[
why is it there are all those failed prophetic interpetations?
is it from reading the clues incorrectly?

or is it just a matter of 'Garbage In - Garbage Out'

Thats usually how prophecies are considered true, by interpretations of those that want to believe. For example a porphet may say they see great fire in the sky raining down on people below, that could be interpreted as meteor shower, rockets, missiles comets etc. Both Nostradamus' quatraines and webbot are 2 good examples of this

could you post some links to where people are stating that the end of the world will happen at 2012?

thanks.


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Originally posted by prevenge
could you post some links to where people are stating that the end of the world will happen at 2012?

thanks.


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Well why dont you just search the 2012 forum right here on ATS?

Its got plenty of information there

Hey Guys. If it does happen. i will go againts it. i will do anything min my power to stop it. heres my blog i just made about this whylettheworldend.blogspot.com...

i hate prophecys.

this world is ours.

i wont let it end.

I have given my oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. I intend to fulfill that oath.. 2012.. as most people I laughed it off as only another possible y2k scare...even the planetary alignment scare.. Well.. Sumerians wrote of Nibiru... Mayan ... the Red star and the 7 mountains.. The Kolbrin Bible the Rosetta Stone of Planet X!" . These prescient accounts of the Egyptian and Celtic authors clearly describe a brown dwarf. Well is it really out there....Where is the evidence..

By Thomas O'Toole, Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 30, 1983 ; Page A1
Possibly as Large as Jupiter;
Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered
The correct figure is 50 billion miles. It also might be a Jupiter-like star that started out to become a star eons ago but never got hot enough like the sun to become a star. which is so cold it casts no light so close to the sun it would be part of the solar system....there was some speculation that it might be moving toward Earth Cal Tech's Neugebauer said. "I want to douse that idea with as much cold water as I can." ...."All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is," Dr. Gerry Neugebauer, IRAS chief scientist for California's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and director of the Palomar Observatory for the California Institute of Technology, said in an interview.

NASA BAFFLED BY UNEXPLAINED FORCE ACTING ON PROBES

The New York Times
Sunday, January 30, 1983
Clues Get Warm in the Search for Planet X
John Noble Wilford
Something out there beyond the farthest reaches of the known solar system seems to be tugging at Uranus and Neptune. Some gravitational force keeps perturbing the two giant planets, causing irregularities in their orbits. The force suggests a presence far away and unseen, a large object that may be the long-sought Planet X.
Evidence assembled in recent years has led several groups of astronomers to renew the search for the 10th planet. They are devoting more time to visual observations with the 200-inch telescope at Mount Palomar in California. They are tracking two Pioneer spacecraft, now approaching the orbit of distant Pluto, to see if variations in their trajectories provide clues to the source of the mysterious force. And they are hoping that a satellite-borne telescope launched last week will detect heat “signatures” from the planet, or whatever it is out there. The Infrared Astronomical Satellite was boosted into a 560-mile-high polar orbit Tuesday night from Vandenberg Air Force Base, CA. It represents an $80-million venture by the United States, Britain and the Netherlands. In the next six or seven months, the telescope is expected to conduct a wide-ranging survey of nearly all the sky, detecting sources not of ordinary light, but of infrared radiation, which is invisible to the human eye and largely absorbed by the atmosphere. Scientists thus hope that the new telescope will chart thousands or infrared-emitting objects that have gone undetected – stars, interstellar clouds, asteroids and, with any luck, the object that pulls at Uranus and Neptune.

John P. Bagby has now introduced a new piece to the puzzle of solar-system cyclic behavior. While searching for possible perturbations of the planets due to a tenth major planet or a dark massive solar companion (MSC), he discovered that the perihelia of the outer planets (orbital points closest to the sun) were being disturbed with an average period of 11.2 years. This is almost exactly the sunspot period of about 11 years ( or half the period of solar magnetic field reversals of about 22 years). He suggests two possibilities:
(1) Mutual resonance effects between the planets
(2) The effects of a massive solar companion.
...If this Dwarf Star is coming .. reports on the net say it will be as close as Mars in June 2012 .. and will be south of the sun .. moving toward north as it finishes its orbit in December 21 2012 .. to then again continue it’s roughly 4970 year orbit around the sun... its gravitational force could reach as far as Jupiter.. and when it is as close as Mars or possibly In 2011 we will see it and know it is there. Would make since it being a star would also align with the galactic center of the galaxy. The Chandler wobble is a small motion in the Earth's axis of rotation coincided with the galactic alignment with the galaxy roughly every 26 thousand years. Our Solar System orbit’s the black hole of our galaxy roughly every 26000 years as well ends in 2012. The Dark Plane a line running more or less through the center of the Milky Way Galaxy the Densest Portion of the spiral arm. Our solar system moves through this region periodically over a great time span. This region is heavily packed with stars, especially those that go supernova, Type II. Type I Supernova are observed in all galaxies. But type II are limited to the very "dense or star-packed regions of the arms of the spiral galaxies, such as our Milky Way. Because type II supernovae are so violently explosive, they present a grave and severe threat to every star system close to them. This motion has brought us into one of the most dangerous supernova-producing regions of our entire galaxy." We are now approaching this area. The gravitation field of the Galactic Plane can cause solar-like winds to behave like steering currents on comets and other objects . The Earth has been pounded in the past, The very sparse, hot gas of the Local Bubble is the result of supernovae that exploded within the past two to four million years Thirty-four thousand years ago (34,000), the second part of a supernova explosion, the shock wave portion, hit the earth. The first shock wave comparatively did not disturb the Earth– It was rather unnoticed. Nothing happened, such that the inhabitants of the Earth would have become alarmed. Nothing heavy plummeted to the planet. They may have noticed a large array of ‘shooting' stars coming into the high, rarefied air. This cosmic castoff from the supernova with cosmic substances in the cosmos were pushed onto Earth. Evidence of remains of dust left behind from event was picked up 1992 by Eleusis space craft interstellar origin Micro meteorites coming from outside solar system They were caused by ions and small particles, all heavily laced with near to microscopic iron. Signs of evidence inside ice sheets over 35 thousand to 72 thousand years old Zodiacal belt shows Evidence of remains of dust left behind from event These toxic radioactive particles would later cause havoc. Man, animals, and plants suffered with radiation sickness. Mutations occurred. Tests of archeological finds show that man then had one blood type: O, some 100,000 to 40,000 years hence. After the supernova influence, humans started showing up with blood types A and B; and O continue to express itself also. Blood types A or B did not exist thousands of years ago. According to some scientists, if we possess those blood types, we are "blood brothers/sisters" to a supernova in the not too distant past. God moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform. . Some have even claimed to find evidence of periodic mass extinctions that might be explained by a single (as-yet-unidentified) star in an elliptical orbit around the sun. A diagram appeared in the 1987 edition of the "New Science and Invention Encyclopedia", published by H.S. Stuttman, Westport, Connecticut, USA. The article was discussing the purpose of the Pioneer 10 & 11 space probes. Clearly shown is "Nemesis", a popular name for our sun's binary companion, a dead star. (Binary solar systems are apparently the rule in our galaxy, not the exception.) The solar system may not be a nice round shape, but rather a bit squashed and oblong, according to data from the Voyager 2 spacecraft exploring the solar system's outer limits, scientists said. Walter Cruttenden of the Binary Research Institute is that local gases are fairly uniform and the shape derives from the trajectory of the solar system through local space -- possibly in its orbit around a companion star. This binary companion would cause the sun's orbit to curve, and would explain the Precession of the Equinox by the way in which the Earth's rotation was affected by not one, but two stars. Yes, that’s right, if the data is correct our solar system is curving through space (carrying the earth and spacecraft with it of course) so rapidly that the only way to explain it is if our sun is gravitationally bound to another nearby star. Every Myth .. has a hidden truth behind it....It was recently reported by NewScientist that Gravity Probe B received an “F” from the U.S. Government and the project would receive no more funding. But after netting out the spacecraft and earth orbit motions the remaining signal was far larger than anyone expected. In fact, it is so large it either means there is some unforeseen problem with the gyros or that our sun is part of a binary star system. The Rich like Bill Gates .. seems to believe there is something to worry about when it comes to.. his building of the Dooms Day Seed Vault “ Norway's ark-Doomsday CNN- 2012 Planet X ?”
The biggest problem is life is full of surprises like the Web Bot Project computer oracle program predicts a major event in 2012. As you read this, several planets are experiencing global warming. Saturn, for instance, has changed 30 percent. If this had occurred on the Earth, all life as we know it would be gone.
Seems allot is to unfold in the next few years for mankind...the Spiritual enlightenment to come is to begin at the end of 2011... in the Maya Calendar very good subject...DNA activation .. All these events are to take place in the coming years seems to be all connected in some way... .. "COME and SEE"

reply to post by Vonour


"John P. Bagby", (whoever HE is), hasn't a clue, if he actually wrote that nonsense.

He doesn't seem to understand that something THAT massive that is allegedly orbiting on an approximately 5,000-year cycle would have COMPLETELY disrupted the orbits of the inner planets by now!

There is NOTHING in the geological historical records that have been cataloged here on Earth, and NOTHING in the recorded Human history to signify such an occurence.

Poppycock!

Starred and Flagged. I completely agree, and thanks for putting in the time showing us the other falsehoods.

So you are saying that our ancient civilization past human records are all utter nonsence... You seem to forget we get alot form our past... Most of what is teached to us as we grow up is from the past... You can blindly over look all past events that have been recorded by the ancients if you so like but when you notice that some of the structure now lay beneath the oceans and there civilizations of disapeared and you wonder what must have happened to them... I sure many of them didn't have a clue aswell... Byt yet man have ventured acroos oceans and into space wth simple math .. which came from our ancients Just because they lived before us doesn't mean they knew anyless than we do now...

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Here's why I dont take 2012 seriously. Each of the following is just one of the hundreds of doomsday prophecies which have not occured.

Curse your blasphemous talk!

We've got books to sell, movies to make, and forums to fill ...

What are you a socialist?

As far as disrupting the orbits... the orbits would have settled into place many years ago.. if your curious about orbits .. some comets orbit our sun in very interesting ways .... our sun has an elimptic that most objects rotate about on .. and the objuects that dont' come from an odd angle.. some scientist tend to believe in an object .. that has pull them to theire angles and some say they have been pull from the dark star from the sun into there orbits...there are past records that mention a possible dwarf star ... and it is not uncommon for binary solar systems... and for orbits being displaced .. look to the NeatV1 comet of 2003 was size of mars .. didn't effet us at all and came as close as 1 million miles to the sun...

Wow, I thought this thread had died a long painful death???

Its being reborn eh

you would also have to realize that the sun is a very large object and the sun may orbitt this small dead star but the suns fravity would still override the gravity of this star ... not saying it wouldn't effect the earth i dobut it would pull the earth out of its orbit... it could cause the earth to stretch which would cause alot of problems for us... We will not find any solid evidence of this if we are to look mostly because the goverment has a written policy on how to deal with such events.... only way we will know if it is our there is when we see it for our selves and if it is our there by 2011 we may just see it.. there are losts of info on the dwaf star form past ancinet cultures... and many disasters that have happened in our past history .. would be quite foolish to not see a truth in them... .. So your probably not believe in comets impacts either .. yet you can seem the in the sky .. and falling stars .. metorites that streek the sky nightly .. just and illusion... .. and probably don't believe a commet inpacted Jupiter and hit it nined times.. just a film from the man...