'Lost:' Season Five Discussion...

Originally posted by they see ALL

Originally posted by celticniall
If Sawyer, et al have been on the island in the 1970s, why then do they not remember being on the island at t he start when the plane crashes?

I don't think it would be a time loop. I think that they went back in time, but what transpires because of this does not affect Season One for some reason. Maybe it is a different timeline or something.

I don't think it's a different timeline, because as Daniel said, what happens, happens, you cannot change anything. Making changes will create another timeline. But Daniel said that is not possible.

So this must mean that Ben already knew Who they were as a child OR something happens to them (sawyer etc) before Ben comes to the Island.

I'm gonna guess when Locke and ben have their chat, Locke will soon after know what to do next, and this will change everything for Sawyer etc And a lot of things are gonna happen to everyone.

Can't wait for next episode!


[edit on 9-3-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I don't think it's a different timeline, because as Daniel said, what happens, happens, you cannot change anything. Making changes will create another timeline. But Daniel said that is not possible.

Yeah, I don't know to get around Daniel saying that creating other timelines are not possible. Different timelines would get confusing. But, at the same time, I am sure that Daniel saved Charlotte from coming back to the island.

Can't wait for next episode!

Neither can I!

Originally posted by they see ALL


I am sure that Daniel saved Charlotte from coming back to the island.

Hmm How??

So technically, the creators are not really following the alleged laws of time travel....or else all will be explained in time.

When Daniel says they can't change anything, I think we have a major contradiction here. Didn't Sawyer save Amy? Then she had the baby? As someone mentioned a few posts back, was the baby not meant to exist? Or was Sawyer meant to save the woman, thus someone important to the Island was born.

Who do we reckon the baby is then? Ben? Desmond?

Then we have the interaction between Locke and Richard, which in turn enables Sawyer to talk Richard out of retaliation.

So we have two instances of the Losties changing something in the time line they are in.

Originally posted by celticniall
So technically, the creators are not really following the alleged laws of time travel....or else all will be explained in time.

When Daniel says they can't change anything, I think we have a major contradiction here. Didn't Sawyer save Amy? Then she had the baby? As someone mentioned a few posts back, was the baby not meant to exist? Or was Sawyer meant to save the woman, thus someone important to the Island was born.

Who do we reckon the baby is then? Ben? Desmond?

Then we have the interaction between Locke and Richard, which in turn enables Sawyer to talk Richard out of retaliation.

I don't understand what your saying?

When sawyer saved Amy, it already happened in the past! Whatever happens next, in the year 2004 it is already in the past.

The baby is not ben, because we saw ben's mother die in childbirth.

When daniel says they can't change anything, he means whatever happens, has already happened.

For example daniel is now supposed to tell young Charlotte not to come to the island after she leaves. That is why she had that memory of him saying this. Because to her it already happened.

This all makes sense if daniels theory is correct, if he is wrong, then that will be interesting.

Just incase you still not getting me, here's an example, let's say when you were growing up your mother told you a strange story about a man saying he's her son, and she got creeped out and phoned the police because he wouldn't leave.

Then one day after you grow up you somehow travel back in time, to that exact timeline, you do whatever you want, and you end up going to see your mother, trying to tell her your her son from the future.

As you can see you did not change anything, because whatever you do when you go back to the past, has already happened in present day. Assuming that all this stays in 1 timeline.

If you could actually change anything, then that would create a totally new timeline, but Daniel says that's not possible.


[edit on 10-3-2009 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I see what you are saying. apologies, I'm just confusing myself


However....

Remember when they were caught in the time jumps, and Daniel chaps on the door of the Hatch, and tells Desmond to help them and to go see his mother......is that not him changing something in that time line that hadn't happened. As we saw, then the memory embedded itself in Desmond's head, and he suddenly had a new memory.

So by that reckoning, are they able to change some things in the time they are in, thus affecting the people in the future?

reply to post by celticniall


Yes the desmond thing is very strange, Daniel said he was special....

Also remember the whole thing that happened to desmond , if I recall correctly after the hatch imploded, he was reliving his life, until he got he got knocked out and ended up back on the island naked?

It seems Daniel could change desmonds past somehow by giving him a new memory, which is strange. Maybe Desmond is special as in he can live in multiple timelines?

Man it's confusing haha. Time travel can give you a headache lol.

Just remember....their CONSCIOUSNESSES are travelling through time...this is why their conscious selves when they crashed, wouldn't know about the other stuff....

Even though they went back in time, their selves have a currently running timeline so to speak that is their "constant" time, for lack of a better term...it's basically the writers' way around the whole paradox issue... or at least, that's my understanding of it based on Faraday's babbling...

reply to post by Gazrok


Are you saying that it is only in their minds that they are time jumping mate?

So where and what are their real bodies doing in the real time line? Are they all dead from the original plane crash and all this is playing in their consiousness ?

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Hmm How??

I don't know. Maybe he simply talks to her.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Just remember....their CONSCIOUSNESSES are travelling through time...this is why their conscious selves when they crashed, wouldn't know about the other stuff....

Thanks for the reminder!

Originally posted by celticniall
Are you saying that it is only in their minds that they are time jumping mate?

So where and what are their real bodies doing in the real time line? Are they all dead from the original plane crash and all this is playing in their consiousness ?

I don't think he is saying that. That would be a bit too confusing. Physically they are time traveling, but their consciousnesses/memories (?) are being affected greatly too.

Originally posted by they see ALL

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Hmm How??

I don't know. Maybe he simply talks to her.

I don't think he saves her. She says she remembers a scary man telling her not to come back to the island, well that scary man was Daniel, and she did go back to the island lol. So nothing has changed.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I don't think he saves her. She says she remembers a scary man telling her not to come back to the island, well that scary man was Daniel, and she did go back to the island lol. So nothing has changed.

Yeah, good point. I can't get around not being able to change the past.

Alright so I'm sitting in a meeting and all i can think about is Lost .....cable's boring anyways....

...so I'm pondering the whole "Amy scenario" with the hostiles and how they had her with a bag on her head. They killed her husband (Paul) and there was no bag on his head that I recall. So now I'm kinda wondering if perhaps their intent was to kidnap her.
Fast forward a few years later she gives birth... I know I mentioned i was thinking along the lines she might not have given birth to that baby in the original timeline. But there is some speculation that the child is Ethan. (I thought it was even mentioned in one of the prior podcasts with D&C) . So now I've gotten to thinking that if it is Ethan, what if he was originally brought up by the "others" and now he's going to be raised in the Dharma camp.
hmmmm, change of course events perhaps?

I still haven't watched last week's episode so I am ignoring this thread, but quick question.. is it not a new episode tonight?

reply to post by chissler


No I think next week.

Originally posted by spikedmilk
Alright so I'm sitting in a meeting and all i can think about is Lost

.....cable's boring anyways....

That's why this thread is here!

...so I'm pondering the whole "Amy scenario" with the hostiles and how they had her with a bag on her head. They killed her husband (Paul) and there was no bag on his head that I recall. So now I'm kinda wondering if perhaps their intent was to kidnap her.

I like your thought, but weren't those guys going to kill her?

Originally posted by chissler
I still haven't watched last week's episode so I am ignoring this thread, but quick question.. is it not a new episode tonight?

I'm a little late, but there is not a new episode tonight. I was so bored!

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
No I think next week.

You're right.

Originally posted by they see ALL
I like your thought, but weren't those guys going to kill her?

Well, thats what it appears. But like I said, they have the bag on her head plus they have her hands bound. one of those posibilities I guess.