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Isn't it just intention that counts? (luciferian/spiritual)

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posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:05 PM
I'm seeing more and more posts related to the more esoteric side of life and it being evil and luciferian if you dabble in it. For example a topic about 2012, quoted an example.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
I would just like to say that all the talk of a 'new conciousness' and a 'new earth' etc etc IS Luciferian junk. It all sounds quite innocent until you get deeper into it and come to find out that the god being worshipped is in fact Satan, who is NOT God, God created Satan, thus forever having control over him.
2012 is the 'new age', the new age of Luciferianism.

Now my question is not 2012 related but i want to discuss this luciferian claim about everything paranormal related. What is the problem with using your abilities (if you have one) to help yourself or others through life? As long as you have good intentions there is no problem as i see it.

You can use fire to torch down a orphanage or cook a nice meal for the same orphans. Esoteric business is the same, you can work in it with aims of hurting others or helping them.

Why the kneejerk reaction? I read a book of Dion Fortune that got pretty much in dept on this. There is the side of blood-sacrificing and self-centered esoteric practices and the side of workings with energy and not using your powers for personal gain.

Am i missing something here? Why should anything paranormal/spiritual automatically be bad?

posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:19 PM
The condemnation of the esoteric is usually done by followers of fundamentalist religions which demonized it to keep the population enslave, dumb, and dependent.

posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Harman
Am i missing something here? Why should anything paranormal/spiritual automatically be bad?

What you should be asking is who are these people that say it is bad? Who are they and do you care what they think?

From what I have observed, it seems the only people that have frequent problems with "unwanted demonic forces" popping up left and right are all Christians. Others may hear the odd bump in the night, but Christians seem to run into unexpected demonic forces with far more frequency.

posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Harman
I'm seeing more and more posts related to the more esoteric side of life and it being evil and luciferian if you dabble in it.

What is the problem with using your abilities (if you have one) to help yourself or others through life? As long as you have good intentions there is no problem as i see it.

Am i missing something here? Why should anything paranormal/spiritual automatically be bad?

I totally agree with you. Ive seen and interacted with many strange things and often wondered is this the dark side? Will I loose my passage into the light for doing this or allowing myself to experience it? Then I long as we have good intent when we dabble with the paranormal we are fine. INTENT is everything, if you enter these things with a good intent then your spirit will remain safe from dark forces. However I do think when we are shown something is evil or our awarness leads us to believe something isnt quite right and we still do it then there may be issues here.

So no its wrong to think everything paranormal and spiritual is evil and bad.

What 2012 has to do with Satan I have no idea. Just because 2012 is new age does not mean its Satan based in the slightest. Many people find new age very threatening to their belief system, and the only way to pigeon hole it is to blame it all on satan. I did read a post the other day that said exactly this, ALL new age thinking is from Satan.

posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:10 PM
reply to post by Harman
a counterfit appears to be genuine but it is not it is ultimatly worthless in spite of its appearance. only the Genuine article has value and the source of that is God almighty, not a spirit, angel or "ability".

posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:15 PM
Probably due to the similarities that the Lucifer Publishing Company / Lucis Trust and Share International (and a few others) have with the "new age movement".

The Lucis Trust, formerly known as the Lucifer Publishing Company was formed by Alice A. Bailey a Theophsist and disciple of Madame Blavatsky (Helena Petrovna Blavatsky). Blavatsky was the founder of Theosophy and is considered the "mother" of the New Age movement and modern occultism. She taught in her Secret Doctrine that Lucifer was "higher and older than Jehovah. She further expressed in her "great work" that Satan, under different god-names, is really an allegory of "Good, and Sacrifice, a God of Wisdom." Blavatsky believed that Satan was the only god of earth, "is one with the Logos," and is the "cosmic reflection of God.". Blavatsky also equated Lucifer with Jesus Christ.

The Lucis Trust (or Lucifer Publishing Company) is a United Nations Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) and is represented at weekly sessions at the United Nations in New York and Geneva and a member of the UN Economic and Social Council.

The Lucis Trust promotes IoNs as one of the "New Group of World Servers". The Lucis Trust are pushing for the establishment of a permanent "Age of Aquarius" ruled by one "christ" figure, "Lord of the Word" or Maitreya (the new age messiah) and a One World Religion.

Lets take a step away from IoNS for a minute and take a look at the intenet movie Zeitgeist which appears to have taken in millions of people across the world:

Zeitgeist Part I used the controversial author Archarya S as the consultant for the movie. Part I of the movie is based on her book "The Christ Conspiracy", she also penned the companion guide for Zeitgeist.

Archarya S plagiarised her book from a book written in the 1800's by a Quaker who claimed without any evidence that there were 16 previous crucified saviours. This book was heavily cited by the Theosphical Society (founded by Madam Blavatsky - see above).

Archarya S expanded on the themes of the original book by drawing on material from Madam Blavatsky; revered 33rd degree Freemason Alber Pike who stated "Yes, Lucifer is God"; controversial researcher "Jordan Maxwell" (a pseudonym: derived from one of Maxwell's mentors, Madame Blavatsky's, works-- i.e., Jordanus Maximus); Gerlad Massey (High Chief Druid and contributor to Blavatsky's Lucifer Magazine); Albert Churchward (Freemason); James Churchward (Freemason); Michael Baigent (Freemason); Godfrey Higgins (Freemason / Cheif Druid) and others. To this day there are unclaimed financial rewards for anyone who can actually back up any of the claims made by Archarya S or Zeitgeist Part I.

Additionally both Share International and Lucis (Lucifer) Trust are UN NGO's

SI has a long list of prominent, well respected international diplomats, religious leaders and political figures who have had articles published in this magazine. They include articles written by former UN leader Boutros Boutros-Ghali; present leader Kofi Annan; former President of Ireland Mary Robinson; Gro Harlem Brundtland who is director-general of the World Health Organization and former Prime Minister of Norway; the Dalai Lama; and recently even Britain's Crown Prince Charles.(7) Even though the average man on the street would most likely dissolve into hysterical laughter upon being presented with the beliefs of Creme and Share International, it is easily shown that this magazine is well-respected and taken seriously by many influential members of the Global Elite. In fact, Share International Foundation is accredited as an official non-governmental organization (NGO) by the United Nations,(8) and the magazine, as stated on the inside cover of each issue, is published by SI " association with the Department of Public Information at the United Nations."

So take it all for what it is worth but there is a drive from these organizations to "kill off" Christianity and bring forth the "new age" of religion under Lucifer and one of the slogans is bringing forth one's "godself" in the form of physic / occult powers.


posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 03:39 PM
Sometimes after reading about Luciferianism I think "wait a minute, why is this so bad again?".

Lucifer /= Satan remember. Satan means adversary, and Lucifer actually means "Bringer of light".

posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 04:26 AM
Thanks for the insights given so far. I agree with the general thought that it is a certain group that promotes the 'all occult is luciferian' business and with that keeps it shrouded in dogmatic fear of the unknown, trying to keep a blanket-ban on all things self-empowering.

reply to post by infolurker

Thanks, that is a point i'm trying to make, even if there are people trying to use the occult for seemingly negative purposes and set their own pinnacle of power at the top much like a pope is for Christians, it is not the case for everyone, while being interested in occult things i will never follow another one blindly (while soaking up info from several sources and beating my own path as i see fit). This is what i mean with using the same force for positive/neutral purposes or negative ones. The latter still taking aways the power from the individual (trying to install a world-teacher or something). There is a big part of free-spirituals not following anyone and i'm not seeing a change in that because those people don't feel comfortable following anyone or whatever dogma. It kept them away from religion in the first place.

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