Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

S&F

I believe enlightment can be achieved on many different levels, and it's not really a thing that just lights up like a lightbulb over your head.

Let's look at Siddhartha. It took him YEARS upon YEARS to achieve "Nirvana", however when he did it's not like a lightbulb popped up over his head.


He had already pursued the path of enlightment for years, and he became more enlightened through everything that he had learned.

On terms of enlightment, I'd say I'm on the first level.

I can't really meditate, but I can achieve moments where my brain is able to render the world outside it on a higher level on conciousness.

For instance last night, I had this beautiful envisionment just sitting there, stareing off into nothing.

I saw fish, swimming in a stream, beautiful fish of all different natures, and beautiful birds flying about with no need to eat the fish because their level of existance was not physical. I came to the belief that just because there is one fish, in 1000, doesn't mean that fish means nothing. That one fish is just as important as the other 1000, and if I could I'd be able to walk up to that stream and find that one fish. Now that fish doesn't necessarilly have a concious like you and I, but it does however have it's own being, it's own communication, it's own love. It is no different than you and I. The hawks, The fish, The Wolf, they all have their own being and pyschi. When you take away instinct and hunger, these animals aren't as vicious as we percieve them to be.

I don't know..... it's kind of hard to explain. I feel like writing a book about my visions. Enlightenment isn't a state of achievement, it is a state that never stops being rewarding and only becomes more rewarding the deeper you look.

Enlightenment is not very complicated, though hard to achieve.

A human reaches enlightenment, when his normal consciousness melds
with his soul consciousness.

Basically that means, when the normal awareness you have during the
day, melds with the knowledge, memories and wisdom of your soul. Or
in other words, when on earth, you have the same knowledge, ability,
wisdom and memory as your soul has in the spirit world.

Reaching enlightenment is not a requirement for passing the ascension
tests. Most souls that have ended their cycle of incarnations and have
ascended, have never reached enlightenment in any of their incarnations.

Reaching enlightenment during your life, does not mean you will still be
enlightened in your next incarnation, nor does it mean you've reached
the end of your incarnations. However, reaching enlightenment does
allow you to learn a great deal in a single life, things you may have needed
many more lives for to learn if you hadn't become enlightened then.

To be honest, I doubt anyone on this forum is enlightened, heh. It's a
pretty rare event for a human being to achieve enlightenment, and these
people usually become famous teachers and masters.

[edit on (11/1/09) by Wehali]

Originally posted by dunwichwitch

Enlightenment is seeing everything and coming back with at least some mental and emotional faculties left.

Enlightenment is something so beautifully horrifying that you'll forever question even the smallest particle around you... but even though you question, you are hoping to not recieve an answer. You are hoping to just assume that it is there, therefore it exists.

I can see some of my own experiences in what you say above, however I dont think these are from enligtenment itself, thay are probably psychic side effects that some sensative individuals feel from the path to enligtenment.

When I first felt myself become aware I really struggled and as you say Im lucky to have returned with some mental and emotional faculties left! This emotional upset though was not from enligtenment, it was from the journey I had catapulted myself on.

I cant see any of me in your second statment though, that is is beautifully horrifying and that even though we seek answers we hope we never recieve them. To have a fear of recieving answers is not to be fully aware. While we still hold fear we are not awake. I still hold a fear of what my 5th chakra may show me if I ever became its master. This fear is groundless but I still cant let go of it. Oh hang on Ive just agreed with you and said that even though I ask questions, I hope my 5th chakra whont open and give them to me!!

reply to post by Revolution-2012

I came to the belief that just because there is one fish, in 1000, doesn't mean that fish means nothing. That one fish is just as important as the other 1000

I just love that line, the meaning behind that brought a smile to my face. I have just been reading a book and that fits in perfectly to what I have been reading. Thanks that line will stay with me for a long time

Originally posted by Wehali


Reaching enlightenment is not a requirement for passing the ascension
tests. Most souls that have ended their cycle of incarnations and have
ascended, have never reached enlightenment in any of their incarnations.

Reaching enlightenment during your life, does not mean you will still be
enlightened in your next incarnation, nor does it mean you've reached
the end of your incarnations. However, reaching enlightenment does
allow you to learn a great deal in a single life, things you may have needed
many more lives for to learn if you hadn't become enlightened then.

To be honest, I doubt anyone on this forum is enlightened, heh. It's a
pretty rare event for a human being to achieve enlightenment, and these
people usually become famous teachers and masters.

[edit on (11/1/09) by Wehali]

Now this makes me feel a whole lot better.

This is actually something Ive thought about a lot. Do we need to become enligtened to ascend? Your probably right and the answer to ascension lies more in passing our incarnation life tests than reaching enligtenment.

Ive also thought that many in this life who are not enligtened most probably have achieved it in another life, they have just forgot!

Ive also thought that many in this life who are not enligtened most probably have achieved it in another life, they have just forgot!

hi

I thought that ascension was a steady, progressive path? That if it was achieved, that the being didn't come back?

As to ideas of what it is - Vonnegut's chrono-synclastic infundibulum idea is it for me!

Anyone read "A Course in Miracles"?

reply to post by psycho81


What book might this be? I'm very interested to read it.


-To Mr.Green

I can say that all life is equal, in what form you pursue your gift of life changes the world around you and effects others in the presence, for the better or the worse.

The very thought of wanting to find enlightment is the very thought that provides substance to the possible fact you are a light soul, or a good person. Only good people look for good things.

Even when you are outside, enjoy the grass and trees. Do not look at them as objects. Look at them as life. All and everything is connected and you must try to become connected to that source, that infinite source to achieve enlightenment.

"Journeys of self discovery are just that, all about the self"

Everyone takes time for themselves, most use it watching TV, you are just making better use of your time. Much better use of your time, and it will make your relationships better in my opinion, for your part at least. The thing about relationships is they follow that ever present rule: "You get what you put into it," this goes for all those expecting things from you as well and expectation is just another ego-driven attachment that holds no authority or integrity and because of this it demands no respect.

The key here is to always transcend and include. So if through spiritual practice you learn how to transcend your old relationships (for your part)you still include them in your new paradigm or perception, worldview whatever. You don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater."

"We can NOT be the same person we were before...can we?"

You are the same person you always were. You just no longer look at yourself with the attached baggage, expectations. You see yourself for what you are, not some ego inspired self-portrayal. Sure you change, you change into the real you. And you can go back to being the same "person" you were before. We rise and we fall.

"Enlightenment is the scariest and most lonesome thing you'll ever experience."

Scary and lonely... Both of these are also ego based attachments. An enlightened person would have the ability to feel these yes, but it would not be traumatizing in any sense to an enlightened person. If I have any guess to throw into the pot I would say it is very peaceful and loving, probably "the best feeling."

It really all depends on what you believe the natural state for the mind to be, Buddha believed it to be happiness and I think he is on to something.

Not that I'm particularly enlightened, but that's my take on the whole thing. My post is hopefully more based on common sense than anything.

Originally posted by annefran


I thought that ascension was a steady, progressive path? That if it was achieved, that the being didn't come back?

As to ideas of what it is - Vonnegut's chrono-synclastic infundibulum idea is it for me!

Anyone read "A Course in Miracles"?

well you know I really dont know. I did think that once we became enligtened in a particular incarnation that was it we no longer returned, we ascended so to speak. But I do know there is much within me that I have forgot, things I know Ive learnt before but for the life of me I cant remember.

Can one become enligtened and then return in another life? I suppose if we choose to return even after enligtenment then yes, but I really dont know if becoming enligtened gives us the option of never returning. To never return would mean you've learnt everything you possibly could, but then wouldnt you want to come back and use this knowledge to help others find the path?

Originally posted by Mr Green


REPLY TO reiki:-

Hi

Thanks for an excellent post, very helpful.

It's a pleasure to be talkin of something of real importance on here, for once, hehe. :-) .

...We should just let them come and go as they wish and inbetween just simply be. I have been guilty of this....

I'm certain we all have, most know how you feel, as we have either felt it at some point, or still do.


I was told a while back by a friend I asked advice about this, I asked him What do I do? What am I meant to do as I become more aware? His answer was very short and to the point, he said You need do nothing, just simply be. At the time I thought what a crazy answer, how can I just simply be? I must have to do something with this awarness, surely?? Now I see we must simply be, we cant be anything else. To even try to do anything else is as you say unobtainable and will end in constantly trying to chase these moments and recreate them.

Yeah, you're freind is right, imo. These experiences invariably don't last long, they are very temporary. And it's the enternal truth we are really interested in, if anything isn't it? When these experiences come, as they will again, be aware of them, enjoy them even. I know some would say look at them with non-attachment, and this is true. This doesn't mean we can't enjoy the experience, or any experience even. :-) .

Thanks again for a very well informed post.

Thank YOU for a real good topic, that's brought some like minded folks together here.

take care
Wayne

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

Originally posted by annefran
I thought that ascension was a steady, progressive path? That if it was achieved, that the being didn't come back?

Enlightenment has got nothing to do with ascension. You can be enlightened,
and still have to go through several more incarnations before reaching
ascension, and you can ascend without ever having been enlightened. Being
enlightened is valuable, but it is a temporary state that only relates to the
life in the physical universe.

Enlightenment is simply a state of mind in which you remember all the
knowledge that your soul has.

[edit on (11/1/09) by Wehali]

Originally posted by Mr Green


Can one become enligtened and then return in another life? I suppose if we choose to return even after enligtenment then yes, but I really dont know if becoming enligtened gives us the option of never returning. To never return would mean you've learnt everything you possibly could, but then wouldnt you want to come back and use this knowledge to help others find the path?

I think yes. Avaloketisvara, the great Tibetan bodhisattva, is reincarnated as the Dalai Lama. A bodhisattva is an enlightened being, who upon experiencing enlightenment, chooses to stay on earth to help others.

There is much lore of past masters returning at some point in the future. Lore/legend, sometimes has basis in fact. :-) .

take care
Wayne

There's been people that reached enlightenment, yet were nowhere close
to reaching ascension. If you desire to ascend, and many people are now
alive that want to finish their cycle of incarnations, then you should focus
on mastering your life.

The ascension test is basically a test of life mastery.

You desire to end your cycle of incarnations, okay.. so you decide to be
born somewhere, at sometime, on this earth. You get some time to prepare,
and then the test starts. The test is simple: you have to prove to your peers,
that you can create your life the way you want it to be. You have to prove
that through your thoughts, emotions and actions, you can manifest a life
of your choosing.

If you're living a life that you don't enjoy, then you're not about to pass the
test anytime soon. When you've managed to create the life you want to, and
you manage to hold onto it for a certain amount of time, through mastery
of thought manifestation mostly, you've passed the test, and you get the
permission to end you cycle of incarnations.

Pretty simple!

Many hundreds of milions of people are living such a life, in which they hope
to pass this test, and end their cycle. There are countless of books that will
help you discover how to master your life. If you're serious about making
this your last incarnation, I suggest you get cracking and start practicing.

Feel free to contact me if you want to ask me more about this.

Originally posted by reiki

Originally posted by Mr Green



I think yes. Avaloketisvara, the great Tibetan bodhisattva, is reincarnated as the Dalai Lama. A bodhisattva is an enlightened being, who upon experiencing enlightenment, chooses to stay on earth to help others.

REPLY TO reiki:-

Yes you just know hes enlightened, everything about him says so. You just need to look at him even on a TV screen and its prefectly apparent, his enligtenment reaches out to you and calms you. His smile is like no other smile Ive seen.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Mr Green]

Originally posted by Mr Green
Can one become enligtened and then return in another life? I suppose if we choose to return even after enligtenment then yes, but I really dont know if becoming enligtened gives us the option of never returning. To never return would mean you've learnt everything you possibly could, but then wouldnt you want to come back and use this knowledge to help others find the path?

Well I think most (or most westerners, not sure about Buddhist monks or other gurus) experience those states briefly. It lasts for a few moments or a few hours, but for many it is often temporary. They say some are born in that state, or enter that state and remain there for the rest of their lives, but a lot apparently just flicker in and out of it.

And nahhh....you don't worry having to "help" others. It's all God, it is all perfect, it is all just as it should be in that moment. Instead of seeing problems and issues, you see perfection, and you marvel at the incredibly complex dream that is our world. You see it, you are in it, but you are also separate from it because you are the observer seeing through different eyes. Its almost like watching an incredibly beautiful movie and marveling at the utter brilliance, and thinking the director is a genius. You don't try to change the movie, you see it as a piece of expression, a piece of art and you appreciate it.

And like everyone else on this thread has stated, I do not consider myself enlightened. But I have been fortunate enough to have some amazing moments.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Sonya610]

It almost seems like you all dont want to break through the mysticism. I see person after person just adding a differnt layer of crap. Why does everything has to be magical..

Get permission to end your life cycle? reincarnated buddah?

There is a logical explination for everything.. cant people just try that first? then maybe you can fly off on some random tangent about how religious leaders maintain their power with lies.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
It almost seems like you all dont want to break through the mysticism. I see person after person just adding a differnt layer of crap. Why does everything has to be magical..

Get permission to end your life cycle? reincarnated buddah?

There is a logical explination for everything.. cant people just try that first? then maybe you can fly off on some random tangent about how religious leaders maintain their power with lies.

I've noticed that this kind of comment is your usual way of interacting on
this forum. Ask yourself something: are you helping anyone with these kinds
of shallow comments, or do you just enjoy promoting ignorance?

There are many people who have experienced extraordinary things, things
that cannot be explained by the extremely limited kind of mindset that you
and others apply like that. It doesn't help anyone to try and convince people
only the material world exists, because they know that's rubbish, they have
seen the evidence with their own eyes, that the material world is just a tiny
part of what's out there.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
It almost seems like you all dont want to break through the mysticism. I see person after person just adding a differnt layer of crap. Why does everything has to be magical..

Get permission to end your life cycle? reincarnated buddah?

There is a logical explination for everything.. cant people just try that first? then maybe you can fly off on some random tangent about how religious leaders maintain their power with lies.

a spiritual path is a personal experience. one person cannot invalidate anothers, or indeed, a collective groups. Mysticism is ideal for the folks that it resonates with.

And you're quite right, there is a logical explanation for everything. Within spirituality, is a person so deisres, they can do deep research, and see this. I've encountered many teachings, and had many experiences, they all are logical. You just gotta expand your awareness a bit.

Edit: i see from your next post we are actually on the same page, re: logic. hehe.

take care
Wayne

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

Originally posted by Wehali

Originally posted by Wertdagf
It almost seems like you all dont want to break through the mysticism. I see person after person just adding a differnt layer of crap. Why does everything has to be magical..

Get permission to end your life cycle? reincarnated buddah?

There is a logical explination for everything.. cant people just try that first? then maybe you can fly off on some random tangent about how religious leaders maintain their power with lies.

I've noticed that this kind of comment is your usual way of interacting on
this forum. Ask yourself something: are you helping anyone with these kinds
of shallow comments, or do you just enjoy promoting ignorance?

There are many people who have experienced extraordinary things, things
that cannot be explained by the extremely limited kind of mindset that you
and others apply like that. It doesn't help anyone to try and convince people
only the material world exists, because they know that's rubbish, they have
seen the evidence with their own eyes, that the material world is just a tiny
part of what's out there.

What you mean to say is IGNORANT people have experainced things they cant explain.... I can see your ignoranance as well as many others... AND i see the logical.

You see only one view.. it is you who is limited by their mindset. Its a veil that lays over your face. You are hurting so many people with this lack of understanding. Im sure youll go home and wave crystals over your doorway to keep out burglers and evil spirits... then lay in your bed and pray to god to fix your life.

reply to post by reiki


I will wage war on everyones ignorance. Your silly little worlds of praying and ignorant worship cannot exist anymore. That is the poison in this world... Its locked so many people in their tiny cages that they meditate to their crystals in.

IF you only knew the pain this ignorance causes. Your future self is giving me permission to yell at you. These people are coming here for real awsners and help... what they get is a stream of new-age crap. Instead of jesus telling everyone to be baptised or go to hell, we have hologram souls that flip polaritys and if you dont meditate to kryon you will have a negitive incarnation.