Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Have you come to any conclusions about why you began to read and search? I am always curious how others handle integrating the experience into their "real" life.

Well since a child Ive always been interested in the heavens above us, the stars and planets and basically where we came from and how we fit into all of this.

Then is 2004 I had what was probably an encounter with some dare I say it alien race or entity. My name on ATS is in "his" honour! I was awoken by a green skinned humanoid entity with very round dark black eyes looking down at me. It also had some sort of grey skull cap and was in total control of my mind and body. It was non threatening and I was not alarmed at all (I suspect it had shut down all fear responses in me for my own well being) It did not speak but just wanted me to see it I think. My partner also saw this entity so it was not a dream. It came up close to him though, so close he could see its eye lashes.

That night changed me for ever and it was that night that started this new direction in my life. For years we'd search the internet for any one that had seen or heard of the entity we had seen but nothing. I began to loose hope that it would return, I was also frightened it would return too though. I found it hard to sleep for about 2 years after this encounter, even though it was non threatening the whole encounter was so strange I didnt know what to think anymore. Up to this point I was just on an alien/UFO search not spiritual.

Then in October 2007 a ringing started in my right ear, it became so loud it was all I could hear. Some times it would be almost morse code I visited the doctors they could find nothing wrong with me. I started waking up every night at 2 am and could not get to sleep for hours, my limbs became numb in the night, my brow would feel like it was opening and a mass of electronic energy went down it for hours. Id see flashes of light and images that moved so fast I had no idea what they were of, it felt to me like being plugged into the main frame of a computer! I know realize this was my 3rd eye opening but at the time I had no idea, I thought I was going mad.
Id see and hear things that seemed of another dimension, I had periods of illness, days and days of feeling so tired wanting to sleep for no reason. I felt disconnected, unable to with stand noise, negativity or stress. I lost half a stone in a very very short time and started having OBEs and sleep paralysis.
I had feelings of immense depression and absolute fear, but also feelings of immense joy with a need to find inner silence, a need to connect to something. It was like a wake up call but to what? I was very confussed and very alone. I suddenly felt an energy , a new energy flowing through me. It was like pure love all around me and within me, it called out to me, it was beautiful. It just called out to me with love , love seemed to be its language.

In Dec 07 I joined ATS mainly due to a thread coming up on a google search about "The Greens", it was by member Paul the Seeker who I think has left now. I immediatly joined the site to question him about his alien race The Greens. That led no where but from this came other threads more awakening based. I had joined ATS in search of answers to my alien visiter but instead found myself seeking answers to the strange events that had started within me.

This led to discovering meditation which enabled me to learn how to open my chakras. The journey has not been easy, but I met some brilliant people who recommended several good books such as The Power of Now. I have found this awakening very hard at times, then others its been totally wonderful.

One thing I have learnt is to listen to our spirit guides and higher self. I did not even though they were basically shouting at me, they actually spoke to me one night, they said DO NOT GO DOWN THIS PATH, I did not listen to them, I wish I had. I have learnt much personal responsability comes with a spiritual awakening. This must be taken seriously and respected or we can make terrible mistakes which although are good at teaching us what NOT to do, they are hard lessons to learn.

Maybe the path to enligtenment is not for everyone do you think? I know that green entity set me on this path but some times I do ask myself why? Why did he do it to someone like me who really is not strong enough to take this on. Ive failed at so many turns and only just manage to recover from it, how many chances do we get? How many times can we take the wrong turn? Is there really any wrong turns? Is everything sent to us for a reason?

Enough questions.....

Originally posted by Mr Green
Maybe the path to enligtenment is not for everyone do you think?

I have thought long and hard about this myself. The conclusion I have come to is that it is for everyone, and not only IS it, but it MUST be. The universe or the divine, or God, or whatever one calls it, is inherently fair, just, and if it isnt, then my whole experience was a delusion. What I experienced was "perfection" not as we think of it, but the underlying perfection of All That Is, regardless how the mind may judge it when we are in the illusion of duality. So, as I experienced it, there can be no such thing as deserving or undeserving, chosen or not favored, special or unworthy. It is available to anyone, everyone, at absolutely any moment in time, or the whole thing is just a hallucination. Which could be the case, but if it is, as I have said before, it is a hallucination shared pretty consistently by quite a few.

The best I have come up with to date, you have to let it happen. There is something (and I dont know precisely what) about the way the illusion itself works that requires a voluntary setting aside of "you as an identity" even if just for a second so that "you as consciousness itself" can shine in and break the illusion. Even if this only happens for a second. I dont think you have to "know" with the mind that you are doing this, I think it can happen in many, many ways. I dont think you even have to know doing that is in any way connected to enlightenment. But something, some event, some series of events, has to bring your struggle to use your mind as the only lens with which to view reality to a halt.

Kind of like those "magic eye" pictures that have hidden 3D images in them, no matter how hard you stare, the trick isnt to try harder, it is sort of to relax your eyes and then, all of a sudden, there is it. Order in what just a second ago was chaos. Some people never do quite get the hang of relaxing the eyes and never see it. But there is no one but themselves stopping them from doing so. I think it is like that. Whether you know what happened or not, something in you relaxed just enough to let the order shine through the chaos. I dont know if the green man was the event that made you mind realize it couldnt figure this one out, and shut up for a second, or if there were other small things that led up to that event over the course of your life. I suspect, it was the latter, and the green man was just the final straw. Mostly because you said this;

Originally posted by Mr Green
Well since a child Ive always been interested in the heavens above us, the stars and planets and basically where we came from and how we fit into all of this.

Questioning, not knowing, being able to leave the mind open and wonder is a common denominator I am seeing in those who have the experience. Even if there are areas of ones life where you do have to have things all tied down, there is some magic in "not knowing" and being able to relax into "not knowing." Socrates said he figured out he was the wisest of all men only because he alone knew he didnt know. I think that those who even in a part of their lives can allow this "not knowing" even while looking for answers, being comfortable with the possibility that they may never really "know" are in a particularly lucky position. Their mind doesnt have the door to the consciousness firmly shut, it is cracked open already. Just waiting for some event or circumstance to throw the mind into letting go that last little bit.

Originally posted by Mr Green
I know that green entity set me on this path but some times I do ask myself why? Why did he do it to someone like me who really is not strong enough to take this on. Ive failed at so many turns and only just manage to recover from it, how many chances do we get? How many times can we take the wrong turn? Is there really any wrong turns? Is everything sent to us for a reason?

But you are strong enough. And, I would add, it is the fact that you have the strength to not know, and to keep going on even though you dont know, looking, trying, questioning, eyes and mind open, I would say that is the very reason "why you." Or why any of us.

I think that unfortunately, the need to lock it all down, and have a tight game plan, and know you have to burn THIS incense, and THIS time, when the moon looks just like THIS, while visualizing THIS particular image, is exactly the way to assure yourself it will not happen. It may very well be a perfect description of how it DID happen for one person, but there is no one path to enlightenment. You are already on the right path for you, and trying to follow someone elses path may take you far, far from your own.

Which is why I agree that rather than listen to other minds, or even your own mind, you should listen to that intuitive sense you already possess. That is your guide to your path. It will lead you directly to your destination if you take the time to learn the subtle difference between the voice of your higher "self" (some might call a spirit guide) and the voice of your mind.

Your mind can pretend to be a "spirit guide," as Blossom Goodchilds did, because it is always trying to keep the illusion going, so you do have to watch outcomes very closely. However through the careful watching and listening to your internal feelings and intuitions and how they play out in the world when you do or dont listen, (what you call right and wrong turns) you slowly learn to tell the tricky mind from the higher self.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Your mind can pretend to be a "spirit guide," as Blossom Goodchilds did, because it is always trying to keep the illusion going, so you do have to watch outcomes very closely. However through the careful watching and listening to your internal feelings and intuitions and how they play out in the world when you do or dont listen, (what you call right and wrong turns) you slowly learn to tell the tricky mind from the higher self.

Yes it is a problem working out ones mind from a true spirit guide. I think your right with Blossom Goodchild, she failed to keep her minds chatter in check, she failed to tell the difference and her mind went totally out of control.

I was reading the Power of Now on the train yesterday. One paragraph stood out for me. It was about how in the last moments of life we all become enlightened. How in those last few hours of life our false self is stripped away from our real being to show the true spirits we are. As we die our possessions, social status, knowledge, education, physical appearance, abilities, relationships, family, belief system, political ideas, nationality, and religion all leave us because none of them are the real us and none are required for enligtenment.
Death takes away all that is not us and the book then states that the secret of life and enligtenment is :-

"To die before you die "

Then from this we learn there is no death and we are able to loose all fear and become enlightened in life.

Originally posted by Mr GreenI know that green entity set me on this path but some times I do ask myself why? Why did he do it to someone like me who really is not strong enough to take this on.

I don't think it has anything to do with being "strong enough". Certain events, or desires, may trigger it, but from what I have seen and heard from others it typically just "happens" spontaneiously. Often when one least expects it.

Like the example that Illusions gave, about the magic eyes picture. I think KNOWING that there is another picture there, and then relaxing and opening yourself up to seeing the second image is key. Many aren't even aware there is a second picture, they may stumble across it accidentally, but if they don't know its there they won't look at the image long enough to see it.

Originally posted by Sonya610
I don't think it has anything to do with being "strong enough". Certain events, or desires, may trigger it, but from what I have seen and heard from others it typically just "happens" spontaneiously. Often when one least expects it.

What about the strength required to face the journey though, I agree strength is not required for the initial trigger but what follows can become difficult to deal with, is strength not needed then, especially when a person has no idea whats happening to them and how to handle it?

Once this becomes more clear then strength is not needed, just a simple belief in ones own spirit is usually enough. A trust in ones own self rather than strength, but initially I especially felt in need of strength to carry on.

Originally posted by Mr Green
What about the strength required to face the journey though, I agree strength is not required for the initial trigger but what follows can become difficult to deal with, is strength not needed then, especially when a person has no idea whats happening to them and how to handle it?

Once this becomes more clear then strength is not needed, just a simple belief in ones own spirit is usually enough. A trust in ones own self rather than strength, but initially I especially felt in need of strength to carry on.

I don't mean to sound judgemental, but seriously Mr. Green the people that say "oh it is scary, it requires such a strong mind and special soul capable of dealing with it" have absolutely NO IDEA what they are talking about. They are rambling about ego based drama, and I do believe if they had a CLUE they would not say such silly things.

Honestly it is the easiest most awesome thing imaginable. It is the exact OPPOSITE of fear, of concern, or struggle. There is nothing scary or disturbing about it. It is the greatest sense of peace imaginable. I think maybe some fear they will "lose something" from the experience, they will lose the ego they have become so attached to. But you don't lose anything, you gain everything! And afterwards, you are still you, even though you wish you weren't. You just want to go back to that state.


[edit on 25-1-2009 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Sonya610


I'd actually say that certain events can trigger it.

My youthful enlightenment was achieved after my mom's recent passing, Nov 12 08. There was still a part of my brain that said to myself there is a possibility of the nothing paradox, basically never was and never after when you pass. However, after watching a NDE expierence on Discovery that a woman named Pam Reynolds expierenced, I was moved.

After that, one day, like you said, I just spontaneously became enlightened, I even feel lighter when I walk now, stress seems to only present itself in the form of chaos, which I deal with but try my best to ignore the emotional side effects, realizing that it is nothing more than a passing of events.

Either way, glad to see how far this thread has made it!

Originally posted by Sonya610

I don't mean to sound judgemental, but seriously Mr. Green the people that say "oh it is scary, it requires such a strong mind and special soul capable of dealing with it" have absolutely NO IDEA what they are talking about. They are rambling about ego based drama, and I do believe if they had a CLUE they would not say such silly things.

Honestly it is the easiest most awesome thing imaginable. It is the exact OPPOSITE of fear, of concern, or struggle. There is nothing scary or disturbing about it. It is the greatest sense of peace imaginable. I think maybe some fear they will "lose something" from the experience, they will lose the ego they have become so attached to. But you don't lose anything, you gain everything! And afterwards, you are still you, even though you wish you weren't. You just want to go back to that state.


[edit on 25-1-2009 by Sonya610]

Yes everything you say is right. Maybe in some individuals the fear of the what if does become more of an issue. Yes it is probably an ego based drama that takes control to stop any enligtenment. Loosing the ego after so long is difficult and painful and I think it trys all sorts of things to remain .

reply to post by Revolution-2012


Im sorry about your Mum. I agree events such as this can be life changing.

What does your Avatar mean? A tropical bird with the words Fail?

Originally posted by Mr GreenYes it is probably an ego based drama that takes control to stop any enligtenment. Loosing the ego after so long is difficult and painful and I think it trys all sorts of things to remain .

But see once again you are NOT losing anything. Sheesh if only it were that easy to lose ego! It is more like seeing through the eyes of God. And as stated, afterwards, you are still you. I suppose some might be lucky enough to stay in it, to keep seeing the world through those eyes.

Believe me, losing your ego should be the least of your concerns. LOL.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610


Honestly it is the easiest most awesome thing imaginable. It is the exact OPPOSITE of fear, of concern, or struggle. There is nothing scary or disturbing about it. It is the greatest sense of peace imaginable. I think maybe some fear they will "lose something" from the experience, they will lose the ego they have become so attached to. But you don't lose anything, you gain everything! And afterwards, you are still you, even though you wish you weren't. You just want to go back to that state.

I agree with Sonya, the ego is what makes life "scary and difficult." The ego is the portion of you with a vested interest in not finding out what life is like if you were to realize yourself as "not the ego." The ego is the one that requires a "struggle" in your experience of life, because if it is "struggling against something" it therefore must BE something.

Like Sonya said, you dont actually lose something, you gain everything. There is nothing to struggle against because all of it is Consciousness itself. "You" in a non-egocentric way. Even fighting against the ego is something only the ego can do. Its just a more subtle form of illusion. It will do anything to keep the "battle" raging, because as long as it can convince that there is an "other" to battle with, it implies its own separate existence.

The ego or mind is a "dividing thing." Its primary function in the world is to differentiate between "this and that" so that we can operate smoothly within the illusion, and it cannot comprehend "non-division." It equates "non-division" or "non-duality" with "nonexistence." It is mistaken. Non-duality does NOT equal nonexistence. It does not diminish "self" it expands "self" to include All that IS.

Originally posted by Mr Green

Death takes away all that is not us and the book then states that the secret of life and enligtenment is :-

"To die before you die "

Then from this we learn there is no death and we are able to loose all fear and become enlightened in life.

I have not read the Power of Now in its entirety, though I have seen parts of it. I did not realize he had this at the end, but yes. This is one thing that is also consistent in the teachings of those who have realized "What Is" and then decided to become adept at its explanation.

The "you" that has to "die" before death, is the "idea" that the mind holds as to what you are. Your identification of "self" with "mental content" has to "die." The mind does not literally have to die. At the bodies death, the "Self that is really YOU" (consciousness without thought) can have liberation from the "idea of you" (or ego). But the understanding here is that this understanding or realization can occur before the death of the body.

You can realize you are not the contents of your mind, (the thinker) but are instead the "observer" of the mind while still in your body. That "idea of you" can die and allow "you as you really are" to be realized while your body is still alive.

reply to post by Mr Green




Nah, it's the mascot for the Arizona, Cardinals football team.

They're going to the super bowl, and I don't want them to win.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
The "you" that has to "die" before death, is the "idea" that the mind holds as to what you are. Your identification of "self" with "mental content" has to "die." The mind does not literally have to die. At the bodies death, the "Self that is really YOU" (consciousness without thought) can have liberation from the "idea of you" (or ego). But the understanding here is that this understanding or realization can occur before the death of the body.

You can realize you are not the contents of your mind, (the thinker) but are instead the "observer" of the mind while still in your body. That "idea of you" can die and allow "you as you really are" to be realized while your body is still alive.

Maybe this is the very simple answer to finding enlightenment in life then "to die before we die" do you think it could be this simple? The liberation from the "mental self" the death of the "you" and then continuing on your life with this knowledge.

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
reply to post by Mr Green

 

Nah, it's the mascot for the Arizona, Cardinals football team.

They're going to the super bowl, and I don't want them to win.

aahh I see! Im British you see, these things mean nothing to me!! Thanks for clearing that up.

reply to post by Mr Green


NP chap.

Originally posted by Mr GreenMaybe this is the very simple answer to finding enlightenment in life then "to die before we die" do you think it could be this simple? The liberation from the "mental self" the death of the "you" and then continuing on your life with this knowledge.

Well I think the whole "die before you die" thing makes it sound a bit scary. Besides in all likehood the experience is very short. You snap out of it even while you wish it would never end.

Ever had a lucid dream? The definition of a lucid dream is when you realize you are dreaming, and suddenly you think "wow....this is cool...i can do anything because this is a dream". Very cool thing, but often as soon as you realize it you wake up, or fall back into the unaware dream state even though you want to hold on to that experience and have fun with it.

It's beyond our control, it is fleeting and beautiful, but while you want to hold on to that state most can't seem to. So its not really about "dying" in the sense that dying sounds so permanent. For most, more like a really great white light experience and then suddenly "coming back" even though you don't want to come back.


[edit on 25-1-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610
Well I think the whole "die before you die" thing makes it sound a bit scary. Besides in all likehood the experience is very short. You snap out of it even while you wish it would never end.

Yes it does sound scary. But its not actually us, our bodies having to die is it, its all those things like self and ego that need to die to enable us to truely live as an enlightened individual.

Is the wishing to go back to it the state of bliss we have talked of before though? This stage that many find themselves trapped in, some times for years. I think we do need to snap out of it to continue on but the thought that it is always within us, a state we can revisit when ever we wish is very comforting. Its just a state we can not allow ourselves to become consummed with as its imposible to live whilst fully in it, its almost like its able to mesmerize us with its rapturous infinite love.

Originally posted by Mr Green I think we do need to snap out of it to continue on but the thought that it is always within us, a state we can revisit when ever we wish is very comforting. Its just a state we can not allow ourselves to become consummed with as its imposible to live whilst fully in it, its almost like its able to mesmerize us with its rapturous infinite love.

Good description. Mesmerizing is accurate. I only wish it would consume me. The world becomes so incredibly beautiful and perfect, like a grainy black and white picture becoming perfectly clear in techno-color. Same image, but yet through a different lense. Also you realize the image that you thought was real, as in a real photograph, is really the most indredibly beautiful piece of art created by a brilliant artist. You realize it is a fake, which is what makes it that much more fascinating.


[edit on 25-1-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Mr Green

Yes it does sound scary. But its not actually us, our bodies having to die is it, its all those things like self and ego that need to die to enable us to truely live as an enlightened individual.

Well, that is part of the problem. Why that realization of "dying while still alive" is simple, but also very problematic.

The ego or mind does NOT have to die. The idea that "you" = "your ego" or "your mind" has to be released. (Die) The ego or mind doesnt go anywhere. It just is no longer confused with "you."

"YOU" are not now, nor have you ever been, your mind or the creation of your mind, its memories, its beliefs, its preferences. You are not now, nor have you ever been, your "identity" or ego.

If one gains a belief, "My mind has to die" only the ego or mind itself can have that thought.

What does the ego want? Existence as a separate thing.

How does the ego assure itself it "IS?" By struggling against "other."

How does this work? Because if there is an "other" to struggle against, there must be an "I" to struggle against "other."

So, what can or would struggle against the mind? Only the mind itself. It "divides" itself, again, into "me" and "other." "I" am going to overcome "my mind." The mind can divide into as many fragments as it must to keep the illusion going. What is constant is the need for struggle. It doesnt matter if the struggle is with "another person" or with itself subdivided. It must struggle to maintain the illusion that it is a "real separate thing."

Originally posted by Mr Green
Is the wishing to go back to it the state of bliss we have talked of before though?

If you are wishing you were somewhere else, what is that? It is a struggle against your actual present moment.

Which is why I am monotonously insistent that "Love" be defined as "Acceptance" rather than "a positive emotional regard for." What can struggle against the moment you ARE in by wishing it were elsewhere? The ego. If "bliss" or "unconditional love" = Acceptance, can there be any possible way to get there via struggle? Is not acceptance the "lack of struggle against?"

The problem with all simple solutions concocted by the mind is that they will inevitably lead you to a struggle. Trying, striving, wishing, wanting, hating, fearing, forcing the body, forcing others, overcoming the mind, etc. It is inevitable. Inescapable. The mind will always lead you to a struggle. It will always lead you away from where "unconditional love" is.

The only solution is to see the problem. Not to DO something about the problem. See the problem. The problem is "struggle against What Is." Just see it. Accept it. The act of seeing with acceptance is the solution. It is unconditional love itself.

That doesnt mean in this world you will take no actions, but every action you take, even ego centric action, see it for what it is and accept it.

MG, if you look buddha boy up on youtube it shows that he has come back. It was actually about a week before I watched that vid that he came back, I found it interesting. He sure looks the same, just a year and half older with long hair.

I do my own method of absorbtion from the air and its brilliant. I think its the best way for me to get energy. I become aware of my whole body and as I inhale deeply I feel the energy entering every pore of my skin. At the same time I push my frequency higher, I don´t know how to really explain that. It seems like Tai Chi condensed breathing though.

I think its totally possible to go without food if you´ve mastered manifestation, just like in this book I was reading about plants. This woman plucked a leaf from it and every day willed it to stay alive, weeks later it was still green and healthy.

I think its possible to nourish or prevent the decay of the body if you can master this level of manifestation.

I know if I keep meditating and pulling in more energy like this, I also elevate my emotions with music or something sometimes, I don´t really need to sleep, so long as I keep meditating. I realised that I retain the willpower and spiritual energy but over time the body still gets tired and I´m still working on that one.

Its interesting how I feel enhanced awareness when I don´t sleep, but my mind is a bit scattered, its like its easier to become missaligned, too many chaotic energies here.

Its interesting how much digesting food drains us as well. I´m of the oppinion that most of our energy comes from sleep.. receiving higher vibrational forms of it, thus the loss of time or experience of dreams, we get thrown on to a higher plane to regenerate, especially during the begginning of sleep.. I think as we are more rested, we go to a lower state, thus the higher ability to recall dreams. Just a theory I´m playing with really.

If you can eat food that doesn´t drain you, if you can live stress free, and if you can feed off the sun or the air, i´m sure you can push the perceived physical boundaries.

Standing out in the sun is very rejuvinating, its a good practise to try and pull in this energy.

Anyways I just wanted to comment on that vid.