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Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

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posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by kindred
I think it's safe to say they are deluding themselves. I've had a near death experience and two OBEs and even then I am not going to delude myself by pretending that I understand this reality. In truth I don't. I simply got a glimpse of something that is currently beyond my comprehension & understanding. Hopefully someday that will change.


Kindred I have never had an OBE, but I do believe others have. Why? Because many others have relayed stories that are consistent and very believable, therefore I have every reason to think it is true.

Same thing with seeing the lifting of the veil. It is an experience that people describe in the same way, as best they can. It changes how they view reality forever. Now granted this thread is more broad, people are interpeting the question in many different ways. But believe it IS a real experience that has a profound impact, it is just as clear as a sober, lucid OBE experience would be. There is no mistaking it when it happens.

In addition I am not one that has lots of weird experiences, or sees themselves as some light warrior, or can describe a multitude of amazing "new levels" and fascinating insights. Actually Illusions does not sound like one of those people either, I have never heard her go off on weird tangents. We are both pretty reality based individuals.

It is a very real experience.



[edit on 17-1-2009 by Sonya610]




posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 08:13 AM
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Do you want to be enlightened? With me it was "Two hands clapping make a noise. What does one hand sound like? "I will give you a hint: Don't clap your hands but look at your one hand by itself. What is it doing?
The mystery of living is there.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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I doubt anyone that uses this board has become enlightened, there might be those that like to think they are, but I find it unlikely. From my years of studying the Vedas, and a a huge amount of the philosophy that has stemmed from it (most Jain, Buddhist, Sikh and Hindu literature), I feel I have come to some sort understanding of what enlightenment is.

I understand it as being when all ego has left the mind, there is no feeling of self, just the whole. Enlightened minds don't think about the implications of anything on themselves, only the impact on others. Such is the strength of their cosmic connection, they know everything past, present and future. They always know the best way to do things, because their mind is not clouded by the rules and preconceptions that are mans invention in this plane. An enlightened person is complete selfless and seeks only to help others find their way.

They have no interest in material things, because they know these things don't bring happiness. I suppose, in conclusion, an enlightened person is a person who has the divine knowledge, who knows the real basis of reality and is always blissfully happy for knowing these things and always make good from bad. I don't think there is a standard way to become enlightened, I think the end result is the same, but the path is different for all. Different challenges to overcome and methods to use. It seems that as time moves forward, it becomes harder to become enlightened. I suspect there were many more enlightened ones 4000 or so years ago, despite the significantly lesser population. The modern world has far more problems to overcome.

Good luck to all of you in your journeys.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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Wow so many excellent replies, thank you all. Ive enjoyed reading every single one of them, thats the thing with threads like this, they are so much more helpful than just googling "enligtenment" and finding a list of do's and dont's to achieve it. All your replies are from personal experience, personal thoughts and ideas which for me is so much more helpful and rewarding than any web page.


HulaAnglers, thank you so much for the dance. I really liked watching it.

In reply to MischeviousElf (great name by the way!), thank you for what is an excellent post. Your statement that Ego, passion and desire are our real blocks to enligtenment and fluoride is just the cement on the top, that demons and entities are a hinderance and nothing more,did make me think a lot.

In reply to SS,Naga, from your post it seems that your agreeing with me that this can be blocked by entities. You say The Greater the Light, the Greater the Resistance. However after reading MischeviousElfs post, maybe it is me thats allowing other entities to block me. Maybe they are nothing more than an annoyance that Im allowing to take me off track. Are they just a manifestation of the ego? Just as Dragonfly79 states, I allow myself to think they are there (through very real encounters though may I say) my ego latches onto this concept and immediatly a block is born.

In reply to Illusionsaregrander, your post is linked to this too. Your right we believe in oneness (non-duality) but then in the next breath we talk of division between us and entities which seek to block enligtenment. Is it possible they have just lost their way, they are still of the oneness, they are still part of me but have lost sight of the goal. They are still part of it, still within the oneness, but have become lost. Maybe I need to embrace them, stop rejecting them , see them as part of me, as part of the oneness, then I would not feel they are against me, but more part of me. Alot of my perception of these entities being not of the oneness is from listening to others views. If Im honest deep down, I do see them as part of the whole and not a division. Once we see them as a division the great light V dark debates start. Yes I believe there is a polarity and because of this there has to be extreme light and extreme dark. However, these are still part of the pure consciousness that is one, so with this in mind are we all not going in the same direction anyway. (That is the total enligtenment of all within the polarity of the pure consciousness.)

Opening up oneself to all though is possibly dangerous. People should maybe only do it if they are strong within the light, strong within their own belief, be as totally free of ego as they can and embrace total love or do you not think some may be left slightly open to these entites influences?

Right...now onto reading SS,Nagas link!



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by mrmanuva
I doubt anyone that uses this board has become enlightened, there might be those that like to think they are, but I find it unlikely.


If you read all the posts on this thread you will see that this topic has been discussed. Seeing the lifting of the veil for a brief time, and living in that state for the rest of ones life appears to be two very different things.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 



Me - You

Us - Them

Love - Hate

Enlightened - Not So


Great post by the way, I would just like to add to the list above.

Information – Insight

Analysis – Awareness

Back to the main subject of the Topic

There is a difference between "Analysis" and "Awareness" also "Information" and "Insight" Information is not Insight, Analysis is not Awareness, also Knowledge is not Awareness. Awareness is the key of enlightenment, always observing without attachment. Attachment to what you may ask?

Well ask yourself what you are attached to? What would make you feel unhappy if you lost it? Understand the happiness is not in the attachment as happiness is always there. You don’t need to add something to find happiness, you need to drop something. Think of the last time a relationship ended, didn’t you think “Oh I will never get over this, how I can be happy again” Oh but I bet you already discovered that, you became attached to somebody or something else. You are just setting yourself up to go through the whole thing again.

It’s very easy to become attached to all the things listed above; it’s very easy to become attached to beliefs, opinions, and views if somebody tells you that you are wrong and you feel the need to respond and back up your beliefs, opinions or views then you were attached to them. Beliefs opinions and views change all the time, something gets added or something gets taken away. Did you always believe what you believe in now? I know I didn’t I was very very skeptical of the beliefs I have now, however it can all change overnight.


Some more Quotes

“As soon as you look at the world through an ideology you are finished. No reality fits an ideology. Life is beyond that. That is why people are always searching for a meaning to life… Meaning is only found when you go beyond meaning. Life only makes sense when you perceive it as mystery and it makes no sense to the conceptualizing mind”

“Suffering points out that there is falsehood somewhere. Suffering occurs when you clash with reality. When your illusions clash with reality when your falsehoods clash with the truth, then you have suffering. Otherwise there is no suffering.”

“The spiritual journey is individual, highly personal. It can't be organized or regulated. It isn't true that everyone should follow one path. Listen to your own truth.

The topic went in circles a little bit hence why I didn't post for a little bit. Sometimes you have to step outside the circle and observe without reaction or opinion, if I would have reacted without stepping outside the circle to observer. This would probably be an apology for an earlier rant.

P81



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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Its a funny thing for somone to assumes so much about enlightenment.

Thinking that its impossible to explain, impossible to reach, and still somehow assuming that you would be able to recognize it.

How is it that somone can say these things and make such a judgement within themselves that, because of their ignroance, anyone on this thread or on the internet could not be enlightened.

Its like you assume that anyone who understands such things would give you their name and address.

What would there be to say to somone whose a slave to the above assumptions?



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
Its a funny thing for somone to assumes so much about enlightenment.

Thinking that its impossible to explain, impossible to reach, and still somehow assuming that you would be able to recognize it.

How is it that somone can say these things and make such a judgement within themselves that, because of their ignroance, anyone on this thread or on the internet could not be enlightened.




I can not say who is enlightened and who is not. Why? because its such a personal thing, how could I ever pass judgement on say if you are enlightened or not. Only you know if you are, no one else can possibly say , so yes I agree with you that we as individuals can not say or make statements about others as to whether they are enlightened or not. We can see the signs of enligtenment in others for sure, but seeing signs does not able us to make assumptions on if they are or not.

I really dont care for discussions that say "I am more enlightened than you" to be replied with "Oh no, for I am far more enlightened than you", I dont think its even an issue who is or who is not, what is the main thing is that we can all discuss it and hopefully this will help each of us to see just a little bit of what enlightenment is.

[edit on 17-1-2009 by Mr Green]



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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Mr Green and others no Thank You,


Originally posted by Mr Green

In reply to MischeviousElf (great name by the way!), thank you for what is an excellent post. Your statement that Ego, passion and desire are our real blocks to enligtenment and fluoride is just the cement on the top, that demons and entities are a hinderance and nothing more,did make me think a lot.


There are reports of Yogis who can take lethal amounts of poison and not die or become ill... That's something to think about



Maybe they are nothing more than an annoyance that Im allowing to take me off track. Are they just a manifestation of the ego?


Parts of the Ocean are saltier and warmer than other parts, its still the Ocean though, if you cannot love and accept them, you are afraid of a part of yourself, of all, denying a part of God that is in you anyhow.

As soon as you deny something how can you be it in true Belief?
To reach that perspective of being enlightened?

A large part of Buddhist practise and thought, Shamanistic parctises, Christ Consciousness is acting as if, seeing and believing you are that very thing until all doubt is suspended, and you do become that thing.

That thing being enlightened, god, all that is.

To deny or set up an opposition to anything creates separateness and enlightenment can never be found in the home of the Ego or This and That.

What you focus on becomes soo, baser levels of this reality are seen in Modern Pop Psychology such as the secret, more advanced levels in the Stigmata, though this involves Guilt too.... not loving yourself as "out there".

Reclaim your Godness to yourself and see god in all that is everything, as it is God, it has to be how can anything that is in this experience created by God or the universal mind not be part of God itself?

God does not self Harm when he sees he is God, i.e. loving out there too much and not oneself enough.

God does not worship other Gods, but has self love and therefore looks after all that he is... so what I mean is you respect and see God in all yourself included, without Abrahamic Guilt trips and seeing God as Master and seperate, allow it to shine through you.

And as you take care of your body and self, and would put a plaster on a cut on your finger, you must see all Out There as part of you, it truly is, and care for it the same. The negative entities are just like invading virus in your body, and practise, faith and LOVE are like the immune system. If someone is healthy, looks after their mind and body automatically their illness becomes less. If though they focus, talk and think about the illness, and do not take care of their body it will grow and may even kill them.

So eating good food would be being careful of the environments you are in, the images and words your immerse yourself in, Taking exercise is the Meditation and prayer practise, and Love is the clothing of the soul that protects it from the rain and cold.




Your right we believe in oneness (non-duality) but then in the next breath we talk of division between us and entities which seek to block enligtenment. Is it possible they have just lost their way, they are still of the oneness, they are still part of me but have lost sight of the goal.


I will close with what Jesus last words were and this is the truth in action of enlightenment.... and how you should maybe view this fear you have of the entities, which BTW they love and feed of as a junkie feeds of his drug, its just an addiction, he can stop and not become a junkie and then that label is defunct, like who I mentioned Milarepa in Tibet do look here from Evil to Saint in one life time, like Saul..... extend love...


Forgive them Father elf-all that is For they do not know what they do


In that Pain and close to death he blessed, loved and forgave those who had done this to him, as he knew there is no boundary. He had no Ego, he had transcended "This & That" "You & Me"......

There is something here you might like to help with your "Entities" and all too, even if it is only belief that it works, then it will be soo, but also do practise Aura Strengthening every day, and state loudly in word and with strong Love and Intent that they are not wanted around you, that you harbour no FEAR of them, LAUGH at them in love raise your energy and and to go to the light of God/Jesus/Buddha/Truth, whatever your strongest belief, as your goal and intention is Love and Light and why would they want to block this. State and will that you will give them no more energy or thought besides this ritual until they are gone and saved, be a bit evangelical about it to them, if you feel any presence, confront them whisper with love words of Jc buddha or your own truth, CHASE THEM with this intent to help them/heal them but ONLY in Love, you have to be strong any fear and it will get worse, so prepare long and hard first my freind.
They will soon flee soon your pollution will clear as such.

There are positive entities too, get in touch with yours and ask for help in this matter too.

I would say though this should not take up more than 5% of your spiritual practise or you are feeding the trolls lol.

This work though really is of a very low nature on the spiritual path and planes....some find just going to the source Love and Non Ego until it is soo is fine as they will soon not be anywhere near you, until you have to face the ultimate battle just before your Ego finally dies it puts up one hell of a last fight, projects as the master of these, like the temptation of JC in the desert, or Mara to Buddha.

You can throw match's endlessly into the Sea it will never catch fire and the flame will always be put out. On pure Love and non ego you can throw entity upon entity they can never turn that to Fear or latch on.

From Sinner to Saint Dark to Light - Milarepa OM Mani Padme Hum

Below is a Soul Cleansing or Entity Busting Audio Clip that a Psychiatrist who has turned to Spiritual Matters has created from information from his guides.... is meant to Bust the negative attachments thought forms etc from your self and your environment.



Love and light to all.

Elf.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Mr GreenI can not say who is enlightened and who is not.


Well if they are all about anger and the NWO and how stupid everyone else is....I will step out on the limb and say "not enlightened".



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by SS,Naga
reply to post by Mr Green
 


Jokesters. I can tell you right now, if you think a little illumination is going to transmute you into Pure Energy, beyond the 'recylcing of light' level, you got another think coming.




Now this is interesting. It is something Ive discused with others many times, and still dont really understand how it works. To raise ourselves higher than the "recycling of light" and actually become a part creator, is this what you are referring to here? To break out of the continous merging into the light, and not be reincarnated again. (To as you say become pure energy)

I find it uncomfertable to think I would want to even think I could raise myself above the recycling of the light. Is this not ego? To think we can break free of the cycle. Whats makes any of us more special than another that we can become a part creator. This may be not what your post is about here but Ive heard others talk of it before. You leave the recycling of the light and become the light. From then on you are part of the creator, still within the onesness but as a higher light.

Then again is this what we become once enlightened, we die and then become pure energy, join with the one light, become a part creator (become one with the creating light, rather than in the oneness as we are now due to being incarnated)




posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Mr GreenI can not say who is enlightened and who is not.


Well if they are all about anger and the NWO and how stupid everyone else is....I will step out on the limb and say "not enlightened".


You make a good point!




posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


This is why i think its best to leave the "afterlife" out of discussions. why, you ask?

Because we dont know... no one has any proof.

As soon as you include the Afterlife in discussions those people that lean on it like a crutch use it to reinforce their own delusions. This is why ATS says to "Deny Ignorance".



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


Enlightenment is a change in identity from an ego/form-based concept of self to the realization that you are formless consciousness. This formless consciouness embodies the sense of "I". It is devoid of all form, doesn't age, can't be hurt, is outside of time (because time and space come out of it). It is therefore eternal, omniprescent, omniscient, not finite in any way.

The ego is an idea (i.e., a thought form) of separation which inevitably leads to fear since it is by definition a small thing in a large universe. This leads to a desire for security, and ultimately a desire for control, power and approval. But at its core, the ego is afraid. It fears union (as in Enlightenment or union with God) most of all because it fears that union would anhiliate it.

All great spiritual traditions (i.e., those with billions of person-hours of seeking invested in them) describe enlightenment in some form that points to what is really formless. They tell us that in reality, we are not separate egos. We are not particular / individual forms of any kind. We are in reality the formless consciousness out of which all forms arise and into which they disappear. (Think of ripples arising out of a clear lake and disappearing back into it).

This is not something that you must become. This is what you are right now. You hear sayings like, "A dunce once searched for fire with a lighted lantern; had he known what fire was, he could have cooked his meal much sooner!" Or "You are light a blind man standing in water, complaining of thirst!".

If you look right now, you will see evidence of your formless nature in the back half of your field of vision where you imagine your head to be. This formlessness is always with you and always overlooked. You can hold your hand in front of your face and slowly bring it back into that formless void: the blue dragon's cave of Zen speak. It's like looking into a bowl, and there are many of these bowls or world-instants...

Modern western teachers like Lester Levenson, Gangaji and Eckhart Tolle (and many others, e.g., Adyashanti...) provide simple explanations and great pointers to Enlightenment. Again, it is nothing you must achieve or attain. It is your fundamental nature.

There are many models of reality that can be created to help describe the nature of the apparent or conceptual universe and why it is here. The best in my view is that it was the thought of an infinite being that in a single instant wondered what it would be like to be separate. The whole of creation was projected and over in that one instant and that is what we are experiencing. That is, everything from beginning to end is happening right Now and all instants of time are connected through that Now (the big bang, the dinosaurs, ancient Rome, the far future). By going back to the source, you can make anything happen (miracles) because you identify with your true identity: that which is projecting everything in the now (including all physical law). As a form however, living out here, you are being lived integrally from birth to death.

Your true nature as an 'entity' or form is difficult to convey. But I have an interesting model that attempts to convey what it really is (and it is not what we think). That may make another interesting thread...



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 



no one has any proof


I totally understand where you are coming from, but isn’t that the case with most things. How can you prove something you cannot explain?

Near death experiences, Out of Body Experiences and so forth.

Some of the things you have said so far have made sense, you say you are awake/enlightened can you prove that.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Sonya610

In addition I am not one that has lots of weird experiences, or sees themselves as some light warrior, or can describe a multitude of amazing "new levels" and fascinating insights. Actually Illusions does not sound like one of those people either, I have never heard her go off on weird tangents. We are both pretty reality based individuals.



You are right, I do not think I am a light warrior. Or angel of light, or special at all. What I saw convinced me of one thing primarily, and that is the utter truth of non-division. Even if not seen, not experienced, this aspect, (non-dividedness) CAN be approached with understanding by the mind to some degree. (Though I would argue than anyones mind is to some degree limited in how deep that understanding can be, even if it was seen or experienced) What I see is that "mind" rejects even true thought of it, much less the experience of it.

I see that "minds" (assuming the apparent division in our human experience,) absolutely shy away from even intellectual understanding of "Oneness" to use a Buddhist term, and continually return to me/other. Even among those who say they study Buddhism etc. Non-dualism means what? It means no line. No division between me and other. Not me/other but meother. One "thing" (though even "one" and "thing" implies division) indivisible. If an apple is "one" what portion is other? I can take a pen and draw dividing lines on that apple, this half, that half, a quarter, etc. I can divide it into tiny portions with my pen, but is it really many things? Or is it one thing (again those words themselves are divisive to some degree) with a lot of lines on it? Perhaps one of the imaginary segments of the apple should wage war on another segment, calling it "other" doesnt make it any less ridiculous. It would be "apple" waging war upon "itself."


Originally posted by mrmanuva

I understand it as being when all ego has left the mind, there is no feeling of self, just the whole. Enlightened minds don't think about the implications of anything on themselves, only the impact on others.


I know that this is what is commonly taught by followers of these traditions, but I would say to look at the assumption carefully. If "oneness" is, where is "other?" Aggrandizement, making oneself superior to others has more than one appearance. In one form, it is very easy for us to identify. It is the more gross form of "specialness." Where someone takes more, has to have the biggest car, the best house, more food, and is willing to make others "less" to do so. This someone sees nothing wrong with children toiling away in subhuman conditions so that they can cheaply buy better clothes than they could afford if all humans were paid and treated more equitably.

However there is another form of aggrandizement. That of the martyr. They also seek the exact same thing, aggrandizement of egoic self, but what they seek is "spiritual advantage" and it is a more subtle form, as often they appear to sacrifice their material self or needs and elevate "others." However a lowering of "individual self" in relation to "others" is exactly the same thing (albeit the pole opposite in dualistic terms) as raising "ones individual" self in relation to "others." Both assume a real "self" in relation to an "other," both are dualistic.


Originally posted by Mr Green
In reply to Illusionsaregrander, your post is linked to this too. Your right we believe in oneness (non-duality) but then in the next breath we talk of division between us and entities which seek to block enligtenment. Is it possible they have just lost their way, they are still of the oneness, they are still part of me but have lost sight of the goal.


No, we dont believe it. We say it. Even that response, (not intended as an attack in any way, just an observation) is an example of SAYING "oneness" but then assuming duality. There is no spoon, to steal a line from the Matrix. There are no others. You see, we all see, ( through the operation of the mind) lines that are not real. There are no others to block you, because there are no others. There are apparent others. Here, in a body, viewing through eyes, processing that data through a mind, it appears that there are others, but this IS the illusion. "They" have not lost their way because there is no "other place" for "them" to have gone. "They" cannot be returned to the fold, because they could not have been outside it, and there never was a they.

It doesnt matter if you make the others "demons" or "angels" or "beings of light" if you perceive others, you are laboring under the illusion. And, ALL minds do. Including my own. What enlightenment is is nothing more than a "realization" that the lines are not "real" but perceptual. It doesnt give the "mind" special powers, because the mind can never have the realization. It can move closer to understanding than the rigid belief that the lines are absolute, but the realization, (what I have called the "experience" until I found a better word, "realization") is something the mind, or the ego, or the separate individual self, cannot have. We may have to talk about it that way, because of how words and language operate, but in truth a "mind" can never be enlightened. Your consciousness can have the realization, but you mind can only poke at it, approach it, the way a line can approach zero to infinity but never reach it. The mind itself cannot become enlightened because enlightenment is the realization of "no-mind."



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by psycho81
 


I have never givin myself such a title. If you gave me enough information i could explain to you why you feel every emotion that you do... why every thought you have enters your head.

First step is recognising that the world that exist in frount of you is understandable, without it there is nothing worth remebering. A perspective that givin enough information all thoughts and actions move along a causational logical path.

Then you can begin collecting and understanding multiple perspectives which move you from being one person to a collection of people. As you begin to assimilate more and more people into your own personality you will see the patterns of cause and effect. This allows you to see what promotes and denys growth in understanding.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 12:32 PM
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Proof of death beyond life is simple: have a CLEAR out of body experience, LOOK at your body on the bed (I have many times). Or, you can have an NDE.

These proof's are entirely subjective at this time, and science is unable to verify them. Doesn't mean many don't "know." Obviously, people who deny this haven't had either of these experiences, and talk from that point of view.

I used to post discussions (elsewhere) with a very skeptic, intelligent individual; naysayed anything to do with 'spirituality.' However, he had a profound NDE, which he posted. He started believing in life after death, and not having any experience in the 'spiritual' aspects of this existence, went from an atheist to a church-goer (said so himself). He also admitted to being an avid doper/grower. What has that to do with anything? Well, he certainly wasn't anointing himself with much success!

Also, folks who think they 'don't have to do anything' are consummately wrong. You will find out, some lifetime, guaranteed. I, too, have a 'model' of creation, received direct from a terrestrial alien, who transmitted this said model to me over 7 days/nights: it's called: The WORD. Good model.

Now, Mr Green, let's get to you: I have nothing but high regard for your open mind, and general self effort of discernment regarding this large topic of 'enlightenment.' Your description of "being outside the recycling of light' was magnificent: the conclusion was wrong, but you are thinking.

There are Three States of Existence: the First Two are Matter & Force; the Third, (Pure-)Energy, is, indeed, the Causal Level, or the Creatoress Field. So, when you overcome your inherent reticence to desire to merge with this state (the very Purpose of Living/Life!), you will have Won A Step Upwards (believe or don't). Sort of like the other poster said, the ripples on the pond settle back in to become the Stillness from which they came (Ocean of All, or some fancy term).

WANT SOME ENLIGHTENMENT?
One last point, reiterated: The State of Reunion is shielded by a containment field, a system of barriers that work like mirrors: please peruse:
"THE SECRET OF LIGHT"
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 17-1-2009 by SS,Naga]



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 



Then you can begin collecting and understanding multiple perspectives which move you from being one person to a collection of people


Empathy?


Empathy is the 'capacity' to share and understand another's 'state of mind' or emotion. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself. Empathy does not necessarily imply compassion, or empathic concern because this capacity can be present in context of compassionate or cruel behavior.

Theorists and their definitions.

* Daniel Batson: A motivation oriented towards the other.[3]

* D. M. Berger: The capacity to know emotionally what another is experiencing from within the frame of reference of that other person, the capacity to sample the feelings of another or to put oneself in another’s shoes.[4]

* Jean Decety: A sense of similarity in feelings experienced by the self and the other, without confusion between the two individuals.[5][6]

* Nancy Eisenberg: An affective response that stems from the apprehension or comprehension of another’s emotional state or condition, and that is similar to what the other person is feeling or would be expected to feel.[7]

* R. R. Greenson: To empathize means to share, to experience the feelings of another person.[8]

* Alvin Goldman: The ability to put oneself into the mental shoes of another person to understand her emotions and feelings.[9]

* Martin Hoffman: An affective response more appropriate to another's situation than one's own.[10]

* William Ickes: A complex form of psychological inference in which observation, memory, knowledge, and reasoning are combined to yield insights into the thoughts and feelings of others.[11]

* Heinz Kohut: Empathy is the capacity to think and feel oneself into the inner life of another person.[12]

* Carl Rogers: To perceive the internal frame of reference of another with accuracy and with the emotional components and meanings which pertain thereto as if one were the person, but without ever losing the "as if" condition. Thus, it means to sense the hurt or the pleasure of another as he senses it and to perceive the causes thereof as he perceives them, but without ever losing the recognition that it is as if I were hurt or pleased and so forth.[13]

* Roy Schafer: Empathy involves the inner experience of sharing in and comprehending the momentary psychological state of another person.[14]

* Wynn Schwartz: "We recognize others as empathic when we feel that they have accurately acted on or somehow acknowledged in stated or unstated fashion our values or motivations, our knowledge, and our skills or competence, but especially as they appear to recognize the significance of our actions in a manner that we can tolerate their being recognized."[15]

* Edith Stein: Empathy is the experience of foreign consciousness in general [16]

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[edit on 17-1-2009 by psycho81]



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by MischeviousElf


There are reports of Yogis who can take lethal amounts of poison and not die or become ill... That's something to think about



I have thought about it. My thoughts are, I wonder how many of these instances have been "controlled" scientifically so that there is no possibility of charlatanism? In the material world, there are material principles we use to "prove" material facts, and I wonder how many Yogi's have consumed poison and lived within these constraints. The one Yogi I have talked to, has said this is nonsense. And, in reading on the subject just before replying I found others who in writing say the same. Now maybe they are just jealous Yogi's who are envious of the other poison drinking Yogi's great powers, or, perhaps like many who claim supernatural power there is some trickery involved.

(Such as the evangelists who hear the voice of God through an earpiece connected to a human on the other end)

There is great money to be made exploiting the spiritual aspirations of others. Not that poison drinking Yogi's are for certain doing this, but it would be my first consideration.



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