Originally posted by alyosha1981
Well I'll admit that this thread had a secondary motive, and Sonya as you know in a previous thread of mine, I am very afraid of death and this fear conflicts with what my grandmother told me ( I am an "old" soul) as do other things, I hoped I would get some insight into this fear as well.

It's nothing to really worry about (easier said than done of course). Everyone has a fear of death. As long as there is a "you" to die, "you" will be afraid of it.

But the "you" will have to die if you want the process to end. You will have to experience the death before death, where the "you" disappears into nothingness and merges back into the eternal ocean of bliss-awareness.

Think of it like this. When you look at someone else, anyone else, or any other animal or plant, you aren't looking at something else. You are looking at yourself.

If one is really tired of humans and the way they act, is one a old soul?

If so, I qualify.

Originally posted by Riposte
Everyone has a fear of death.

This is wrong, because Im not afraid of death if its painless. Not at all. It will be like falling asleep and finding out whats on the other side. You are not afraid of sleeping are you? It will be the same feeling.


[edit on 11-1-2009 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by alyosha1981
Wouldn't the body/mind in some form "know" what the soul knows? and use that information to "nudge" us in the right direction? or would the feeling be more deep in our self?

Yes, absolutely! The true self is always yearning to return home and "wake up." And that yearning, combined with grace, will nudge you in the right direction.

Remember though, that this process cannot be done intellectually. It cannot be grasped by the mind, it is outside all human understanding. You can't "think" your way to enlightenment.

This is why you must do what all the great masters have been telling us for thousands of years -- go within.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Riposte]

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by Riposte
Everyone has a fear of death.

This is wrong, because Im not afraid of death if its painless. Not at all. It will be like falling asleep and finding out whats on the other side. You are not afraid of sleeping are you? It will be the same feeling.

Yeah I agree with you there Copernicus. I have no fear of death either (now the actual dying part is a different matter..lol). I am also a misanthrope, so two things we agree on.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by Riposte
Everyone has a fear of death.

This is wrong, because Im not afraid of death if its painless. Not at all. It will be like falling asleep and finding out whats on the other side. You are not afraid of sleeping are you? It will be the same feeling.

Yeah I agree with you there Copernicus. I have no fear of death either (now the actual dying part is a different matter..lol). I am also a misanthrope, so two things we agree on.

Haha, believe me, you do fear it.

I am completely comfortable with death right now. I don't worry about it in the least. But when spontaneous self-inquiry arises, and I can feel the "me" literally dying and dissolving away, it is ABSOLUTELY terrifying.

The fear is still there.

Sonya, what is a misanthrope? and how do death and dying differ, why would one fear one and not the other?

Originally posted by alyosha1981
How do you know? tell please because I have wondered that for some time now and for about the last month I can't seem to shake that when I'm going to sleep it's so bad that I often times wake myself up just as I am going to sleep out of fear that "this could be it"

Well, the body is a machine. When the heart stops, you will just lose consciousness and you wont feel a thing anymore. What is there to be afraid of? Even if there is nothing to experience after death, you will never be able to think about it since you are dead.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Well, the body is a machine. When the heart stops, you will just lose consciousness and you wont feel a thing anymore. What is there to be afraid of? Even if there is nothing to experience after death, you will never be able to think about it since you are dead.

You don't lose consciousness.

All that you are is consciousness.

But you are right. What is there to be afraid of? Nothing really.

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by alyosha1981
How do you know? tell please because I have wondered that for some time now and for about the last month I can't seem to shake that when I'm going to sleep it's so bad that I often times wake myself up just as I am going to sleep out of fear that "this could be it"

Well, the body is a machine. When the heart stops, you will just lose consciousness and you wont feel a thing anymore. What is there to be afraid of? Even if there is nothing to experience after death, you will never be able to think about it since you are dead.

Good way to put it thank you, but what about while the process is taking place wouldn't you be aware of that? and sorry if I sound morbid or anything like that I don't mean to.Ans all, thank you very much for all the insight, after working all night I think I'll go get some sleep now but look forward to carrying this disscusion on later thank you again.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by alyosha1981]

Originally posted by Riposte
Haha, believe me, you do fear it.

I am completely comfortable with death right now. I don't worry about it in the least. But when spontaneous self-inquiry arises, and I can feel the "me" literally dying and dissolving away, it is ABSOLUTELY terrifying.

The fear is still there.

Uhhh...no offense but that sounds a bit condescending. A quick glance at humanity, and the choices some people make are proof that not everyone fears death. Some openly embrace it.

Some people DO have different experiences and different views. Now many will feel the natural "fight or flight" response to some threats, but on an intellectual level not all fear death. Some of us have a gut instinct that it is no big deal, its not something new, in fact it is familiar.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Now many will feel the natural "fight or flight" response to some threats,

Exactly. The fear is still there.

For an intellectual exercise, if you are not afraid of death, why don't you just kill yourself? Seriously, it's not an insult, I am asking you to think about truly just killing yourself right at this very moment.

What is stopping you?

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Riposte]

Originally posted by alyosha1981
Good way to put it thank you, but what about while the process is taking place wouldn't you be aware of that? and sorry if I sound morbid or anything like that I don't mean to.

Curiosity about death is actually something I would consider very natural. I have no idea why people in the west has this great tabu about it. Maybe it gets passed along to us by our parents, and then we pass it along to our kids, and so on. So its in our culture? Not sure.

Anyway, I imagine dying by old age would pretty much be like feeling more and more tired and then falling asleep in the end. I have watched people die at hospitals and it seems peaceful to me.

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by Sonya610
Now many will feel the natural "fight or flight" response to some threats,

Exactly. The fear is still there.

For an intellectual exercise, if you are not afraid of death, why don't you just kill yourself? Seriously, it's not an insult, I am asking you to think about truly just killing yourself right at this very moment.

What is stopping you?

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Riposte]

Even though this questions wasnt for me, I will reply.

The simple reason I dont kill myself is that I enjoy my life. Why would I want to end something I enjoy? If we only live once, its really a waste to end ones life early just to see whats coming next (if anything), wouldnt you agree?

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by alyosha1981
Good way to put it thank you, but what about while the process is taking place wouldn't you be aware of that? and sorry if I sound morbid or anything like that I don't mean to.

Curiosity about death is actually something I would consider very natural. I have no idea why people in the west has this great tabu about it. Maybe it gets passed along to us by our parents, and then we pass it along to our kids, and so on. So its in our culture? Not sure.

Anyway, I imagine dying by old age would pretty much be like feeling more and more tired and then falling asleep in the end. I have watched people die at hospitals and it seems peaceful to me.

Well I think we have sanitized death an awful lot in the last few decades and that has an effect. In the old days people were used to death, it happened a lot and it happened at home. Most families lost young children, it was extremely common. They were more familiar with it, they saw it and they even cared for the bodies of their own dead, home funerals and such.

I think that makes people more accepting of it. Plus having seen loved ones die in an intimate setting (as in those you actually live with, not distant relatives and such) creates a bond, or a bridge between here and “there”.

But the “peaceful death” in old age thing is a crapshoot. Sure some get to go that way, many do not. Even for those that survive into old age, most start to fall apart the last couple of years. That’s why the average person will ring up most of their healthcare costs the last few years.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Even though this questions wasnt for me, I will reply.

The simple reason I dont kill myself is that I enjoy my life. Why would I want to end something I enjoy? If we only live once, its really a waste to end ones life early just to see whats coming next (if anything), wouldnt you agree?

Indeed, life is good.

So, you see death as an "end" to "something you enjoy." And thus it should be avoided, correct?

Originally posted by Sonya610
But the “peaceful death” in old age thing is a crapshoot. Sure some get to go that way, many do not. Even for those that survive into old age, most start to fall apart the last couple of years. That’s why the average person will ring up most of their healthcare costs the last few years.

Well, personally I think old people stick around and "fall apart" because they feel they want to be there for their relatives. If they were completely alone, I think they would rather pop a pill and die in their sleep before spending 5 years in a hospital bed.

So I guess it comes down to choice. Im not afraid of death, but I am afraid of spending those last years getting worse and worse. So maybe I wont do that. Maybe I will make sure it doesnt come to that for me. But I will have to see what it feels like when Im at that age myself.

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by Copernicus
Even though this questions wasnt for me, I will reply.

The simple reason I dont kill myself is that I enjoy my life. Why would I want to end something I enjoy? If we only live once, its really a waste to end ones life early just to see whats coming next (if anything), wouldnt you agree?

Indeed, life is good.

So, you see death as an "end" to "something you enjoy." And thus it should be avoided, correct?

Yes of course, but if I one day do not enjoy life (I get sick, old, handicapped or whatever), I might end my life early. We'll see. Im just saying Im not afraid of it.

Originally posted by Riposte
Exactly. The fear is still there.

For an intellectual exercise, if you are not afraid of death, why don't you just kill yourself? Seriously, it's not an insult, I am asking you to think about truly just killing yourself right at this very moment.

What is stopping you?

Sorry I didn’t see the question on the first read (I think you added it after).

Why don’t I kill myself? Honestly? Attachments. I have thought about it plenty. I have a mother along with animal dependants. If I left they would be in a bad position. That is not an excuse, that is the reality. My mother would live on but it would cause her a lot of pain. But the animals, that is a different story. If it were not for them, and if I did not worry about taking care of them, I am 95% sure I would not be here.

I have faced death a couple of times. In one case I accidentally cut my arm severely (window) and was bleeding out fast. I called a family member. Then I laid back and thought wow…there is a good chance I am going to bleed out here. This could be it, and it doesn’t hurt. Then I thought “this time” it doesn’t hurt, this is really easy. If this isn’t it then next time might not be so easy. And I was fine with it.