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60 Minutes - America IS Christian

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posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by sensfan

Originally posted by Revealation


Aren't you also asked to take an oath ... "do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....So help you God" in a court of law on what book they present is a bible?



Not quite. Although most people do swear on the bible in court, you do have a choice. If you are not religious, or don't want to swear on the bible for any reason, you can simply promise or affirm that you will tell the truth, without the use of the bible.


Think I would know this with all the times I've been in court. I guess It only applies to when you go to trial, not cop a plea because I've never had to do it and have never been to trial in any of my cases




posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by spinkyboo

For instance - I like these three -
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not kill.
Thou shall not lie

HOWEVER, cearly these commandments - even all dressed up
in Christianity has not helped.

If this nation is a Christian nation -
then something has gone terribly wrong.

Look to Washington -
To some of our Christian leaders.
Stealing? Lying? Killing?

Clearly this "large percentage" of Christianity has not helped this world.
It's an old idea.
And we need to renew.


I agree that we need to change but the actions of the aformentioned has nothing to do with Christianity.A large percentage of Christians have helped this world.

It's the people who cling to the outward appearence of Christianity to make themselves appear moral and righteous, When inside they haven't got a godly bone in their bodies. These are the people running our country.They try to appeal to the masses by using God as their foundation when the only true god they worship is money. These are the ones giving Christians a bad name.

I'm not saying that anyone should convert or to belive in our beliefs, but a "TRUE Christian" (although human and does make mistakes) is nothing like these people. A true Christian is humble and grounded. They give of themselves and help others. They are in scumhole countries putting their lives on the lines (even dying) helping those who have nothing.

This is what sickens me when people with Anti Christian sentiment come on here degrading Christianity. You use all the people who truly aren't Christians for your argument to point fingers.. Never once have I seen any of you judge unbiased.Funny thingt is we are human and nobody is perfect. Every has faults and makes mistakes. We all have more in common than not.

We are all humans born of man and woman. We all love,hurt and feel pain. We all bleed and die. We are all seeking TRUTH. So whatever it is you believe in or accept as truth or by faith it is yours and the journey you take will always be by yourself.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Nope, it wasn't ever said to be a separation of church and state. It was worded to say that the State could not establish it's own church or religion.
It was meant to be that way to distinguish the USA from the British who had their own state run religion. The Anglican church ring a bell?

Founded by King Henry VIII.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by sensfan
Not quite. Although most people do swear on the bible in court, you do have a choice. If you are not religious, or don't want to swear on the bible for any reason, you can simply promise or affirm that you will tell the truth, without the use of the bible.


This is true. So if you have religious beliefs against swearing you are free to follow them, because after all, America has freedom of religion.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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That wasn't written by Andy Rooney,

www.snopes.com...



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Revealation

I'm not saying that anyone should convert or to belive in our beliefs, but a "TRUE Christian" (although human and does make mistakes) is nothing like these people. A true Christian is humble and grounded. They give of themselves and help others. They are in scumhole countries putting their lives on the lines (even dying) helping those who have nothing.


You describe all kinds of good people here - Christians and Non-Christians.
Then in fact anyone - who as you say - humble and grounded - giving of themselves can be atheists, jews, muslims or christians. Correct?

I am sorry if I offended you - I did not mean to judge -I do understand that all Christians are not good or bad as all people are not good or bad.

I spent a good deal of my life in the church - I understand what you feel and I respect it. I just don't believe it should be a prerequisite in the building or maintenance of a country and its people. It is irrelevant in government.
You are either honest or you are not. We all instinctively know the difference.

I am glad that you are a Christian and that it brings you joy and keeps you loving.
I just do not believe that a "Christian" nation is better or more necessary - than a group of people who do the right thing because they want to and they know to.

One decent person can help change the world. He or she doesn't have to believe in anything other than his or her ability to practice what love is.







[edit on 10-1-2009 by spinkyboo]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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if they're so christian, why is marijuana under prohibition? Isn't that in direct violation to the supremacy of god? To condemn one of his plants?

God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth.…To you it will be for meat." … And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31) The Bible predicts some herb's prohibition. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall … speak lies in hypocrisy … commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul: 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

The Bible speaks of a special plant. "I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more." (Ezekiel 34:29) A healing plant. On either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare 12 manner of fruits, and yielding her fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Revelations 22:1-2) A gift from God.

The hypocrisy of some nations frightens me.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by narin
 

That's in the old testament along with the condemnation of gayness, christians today are only bound to follow the new testament.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by spec_ops_wannabe
 


Well in that case i stand corrected. Thank you for giving me the right answer.


Cheers!

TC



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 11:56 PM
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1- I am sure we can all co-exist with each other, as long as civility is shown by all parties involved.

2, 3, 4- I can't say one way or the other about a Creator. I can't say that he/she/it doesn't exist because he very well might without my knowledge. I can't say he does exist because I have never met him.

5- I can't change my mind until evidence enough is presented to me (for one side or the other).

6- The best thing I can say about faith is that it helps a lot of my family through hard times like deaths, accidents, or any other life altering experiences.

7- The best example of a negative faith experience is a constant worry of burning in Hell. You have to admit that there are some very radical, almost zealot like preachers in all religions. These people tell me that if I stray from these texts (Bible, Koran, and so on) I will forever burn in constant agony. There are two problems with this. One, if most of these religions have a hell then picking the wrong one will increase my chances of burning. Two, the ancient holy texts have some “interesting” aspects to them regarding the rules and regulations. Textbook example is masturbation, wherein a harmless natural act can get you on a path to the lake of fire.

Trouble is that God may be one to nit pick, and even if I live a pretty good life I could burn for not following the rules to the letter. To me this “worship or else” tenet is really psychological terrorism.

8,9- I think that all religions should be kept out of government, even if they are only ceremonial. When you mix religion with government you only work to spoil both. Leave the politicians out of my religious life.

I'm not all that knowledgeable on the Bible, but I think I remember a story that fits the discussion. There were two men who believed and worshiped God. The first man would go out into the street everyday, and make a big scene while praying. He wanted all around to know he was religious and holy. The second man, on the other hand, prayed everyday in the privacy of his home. He would close his windows and pray without a person noticing. In the end the second man grasped the purpose of worship better (being meek and not using worship as a status to show off).

I just think that knowing God is a very personal thing, and it shouldn't be displayed in a public forum. Just as I wouldn't want my taxes and earnings fodder for public spectacle, I wouldn't want my personal savior to be either.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Raven. If I had the very desire of your heart would you accept it? Would anybody accept it?



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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So do any of you actually support the 'in god we trust' on your money?
Because as soon as you say yes i support this notion, then you're automatically opposed to your own government laws that demand religion and government be separate.

And if you're going to say the belief in god isn't only religious, well yes it is because as long as there are atheists not everyone is going support 'in god we trust.' So it is obviously a religious hold on the political system.

Just as in court you must swear an oath to god not to lie. How does that work if you an atheist? Obviously if the courts require you to pledge to god they assume you already believe. I mean how corrupt must the American system be if they take your word on god?



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:41 AM
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I’m always amazed at the inability of atheists and non-christians to view history as they see fit in regards to Christian Nations. It’s an historic fact that America is a nation formed on Christian ideology
That is to say the teachings of Jesus Christ, not a religious dogmatic ideology
America is a western nation
“western” derived from WESTERN CHRISTENDOM
Just as Australia is considered a western nation yet it obviously isn’t in the ‘west’
It is a nation born out of western Christendom

Another distinction that should be made is Secularism
It wasn’t a separation of Christianity and State it was a separation of Religious authority and State… But when people view history through distorted eyes they tend to see what they want to see.
It’s simply the result of anti-christian sentiment, if they get their way and history is re-written in the text of the atheists and anti-christians then society will follow the depraved path of the socialists and fascists and we’ll have another demonic oligarchy



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by Notroh est

It’s simply the result of anti-christian sentiment, if they get their way and history is re-written in the text of the atheists and anti-christians then society will follow the depraved path of the socialists and fascists and we’ll have another demonic oligarchy


Why would that be the outcome? You give us scary images of what will be if this and that happens... but you cant back up your argument with some substance. What are you talking about here? Sounds like nothing more than christian propaganda against everyone not christian.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Daniem
 


I'd tend to agree with you there.

Sounds like
'courting victimhood through an agenda based persecution complex' to me.
This quote is an interesting one:

Give the church a place in the Constitution, let her touch once more the sword of power, and the priceless fruit of all ages will turn to ashes on the lips of men.
Robert G. Ingersoll


As are these:

"When the churches literally ruled society, the human drama encompassed: (a) slavery; (b) the cruel subjection of women;(c)the most savage forms of legal punishment; (d) the absurd belief that kings ruled by divine right; (e) the daily imposition of physical abuse; (f) cold heartlessness for the sufferings of the poor; as well as (g) assorted pogroms ('ethnic cleansing' wars) between rival religions, capital punishment for literally hundreds of offenses, and countless other daily imposed moral outrages. . . . It was the free-thinking, challenging work by people of conscience, who almost invariably had to defy the religious and political status quo of their times, that brought us out of such darkness." Steve Allen

"I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world."
Bertrand Russell



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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That's in the old testament along with the condemnation of gayness, christians today are only bound to follow the new testament.


Says who?
Seems to me that just cherrypicking certain bits out of a divinely inspired 'perfect book' is a little hypocritical-not to mention a bit of a copout.
Its all or nothing isn't it?



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Daniem

Dont you already?


Not like we should and not as much as we should





The United States is an officially secular nation; the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion and forbids the establishment of any religious governance.
A secular state is a state or country that is officially neutral in matters of religion, neither supporting nor opposing any particular religious beliefs or practices. A secular state also treats all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and does not give preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion over other religions.


If you are saying it is a "Godless" State, umm that would be wrong.

The Constitution is clear on this announcing that above all, the legislative branch the judiciary and state and local branchs of Government that we have certain unalienable rights, endowed by our creator, that among those are, The right to LIFE! (something we have denied over 50,000 Americans) liberty and the pursuit of happiness

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I can post lots of authenticated quotes and statements made by the founding fathers of the US which clearly show their disdain for organised religion and their hopes and wishes that America be free from the burdens and impositions made by it.
Shall I bother?


You do that and ill times yours by ten I guarrantee it



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Aermacchi
 


Go back and read the entire thread.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by rocknroll
Andy Rooney is spot on!
My hat goes off to him.
The further this country strays from God and shuts him out the worse things will get.
The younger generation of this country is growing up without a belief in God because of their lazy secular parents and one day they will all be sorry.


Well Raven is right about Christians not living up to the reputation people like her and others expect them to. It is funny when people expect such sinless living from the very elect people Christ had to die for over the very flawed people she is citing in her post.

I don't think it is only the problem of Parents but Parents relegated to sending their kids to the Public School system where darwinian dimwits and their materialist agenda to graduate humanists have done the best job for the reasons we see so many young people embracing communism and Governments which did all they could to keep up with us.

When something works, don't fix it.

Well we have been off track for very very long time getting closer and closer to the State Religion of Darwinism, and as usual, we see us going in the same direction all other nations that had chosen a Communist or Socialist form of Government go before America finally falls losing its favored Nation Status with the lord when she finally turns against Israel.

Lots of the events we see happening today are all written about in that 2000 year old book and at no time in history did they all line up as prophetically given in such exactness and detail as they are today



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