It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

60 Minutes - America IS Christian

page: 2
3
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:22 PM
link   
reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Thanks for staying on topic and for the time you took to answer the OP questions .


OT says two thumbs up!




posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:26 PM
link   
reply to post by OldThinker
 


You're very welcome! I thought the questions were well put-together and relevant. I had assumed that before people started debating they would take the time to systematically voice their opinions about America being a Christian nation. I kind of think the questions about my own beliefs were a little.. meh... maybe off topic? But then I realized that my own opinion about America being a Christian nation may correlate with my religious beliefs.

I wish more people would answer them so that maybe we could see a pattern!



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:28 PM
link   
reply to post by RFBurns
 


I do love your avatar...
anyhow, we all know it doesn't say it in the documents, and also that the founders of this country had different beliefs about church and state than are implemented today.

It is things like the dollar bill and the pledge of allegiance that make America seem like it has some Christianity engrained into it somewhere.

I would say that the proof is more qualitative than quantitative.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by RFBurns
Oh and were all supposed to just ignore the Bill of Rights and Constitutiontion!!

....US is a secular nation, always has been, always will be...period.
Cheers!!!! [/quote)



of course not...did I say to...


balance brother!


Thx for your post, although a tad testy...smile

OT



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by OldThinker
 


You're very welcome! I thought the questions were well put-together and relevant. I had assumed that before people started debating they would take the time to systematically voice their opinions about America being a Christian nation. I kind of think the questions about my own beliefs were a little.. meh... maybe off topic? But then I realized that my own opinion about America being a Christian nation may correlate with my religious beliefs.

I wish more people would answer them so that maybe we could see a pattern!



YES!!!!!


Your response to the OP is the Model everyone !


OT applauds you for simply answering...any one follow-suit?

OT



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:34 PM
link   
I would like to also state, with my own experiences, the following- and not in reply to anyone, just adding to the thread-

In school we have to stand and put our hands over our hearts. We used to have to say the pledge, now it is okay for us to be silent. But the reason for that is the school assumes that we are just saying the pledge silently.

We also were told every day after the pledge to "pause for a moment of silent prayer."

Somebody spoke up, so now it is "silent meditation."

Every day in school I hear the word God. Perhaps not a Christian nation, but for sure a religious nation. And, for those who don't know, not everybody in America is religious.

Our dollars say God, some of our country's documents say God, lots of things say God.

Does this mean we are Christian? Nope. Does it make things awkward for atheists? Yep.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:48 PM
link   


DID YOU KNOW?
Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid By the taxpayer since 1777.


That dude must be ancient!!


Seriously though, since Hammurabi's code, we find many common grounds on what is moral regardless of religious basis.

Many other countries in the East have remarkably similar laws despite no basis in Christianity.

Additionally, the claim of any religion does not denote a morality of the people. My dad was a preacher for most of my life, Pentecostal(before he became psychologist, still preaches now and then), and the church members behave no more moral than people who do not go to church in my experience and instead of insulting you to your face they have a tendency to stab you in the back. This is not uniformly true, but as I've moved a lot and known a lot of people I can say it is far more common than not.

I personally believe churches should be less concerned with getting their views passed into laws and accepted as government than they should be getting their followers to accept those laws into their lives and behavior. As the country overwhelming identifies itself as Christian and their are a crap load of religious TV channels and products this should not be impossible.
Of course their is that firm embrace of consumerism and demands of submission to authority...

Just a fraction of my thoughts.

Fuel for the fire I suppose this is...yes...why be I talking like Yoda...crap! Stupid Yoda...

Anyways



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:57 PM
link   
reply to post by SonOfChaos
 


If you asked me, I would say the problem is that people who are religious, especially Christian, tend to look down on people who don't have the same religion, or who lack one.

If I had ten bucks for every time some religious person either told me I was "going to Hell" or tried to convert me, or made me feel bad, I would have enough money to get through college.

And just because non-Christians seem to be a minority in America, this does become a problem. I ask if anybody else has had similar experiences.

Does being Christian make you a better America? It seems so, to me, being a non-Christian in America.

Also, many very patriotic people tend to be Christian more than not, and right-wingers. Only an observation.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by SonOfChaos
Seriously though, since Hammurabi's code, we find many common grounds on what is moral regardless of religious basis.

Many other countries in the East have remarkably similar laws despite no basis in Christianity.


Yes Hammurabi's code is very similar to commandments in abrahamic lore:
en.wikipedia.org...

As is the Egyptian book of the dead:

Perhaps they've all been conveniently 'borrowed' from each other down the years.


BIBLE

Have no other gods before me

Make no idols

Do not misuse the name of God

Keep the Sabbath holy

Honor your mother and father

Do not kill

Do not commit adultery

Do not steal

Do not lie

Do not covet another’s property



BOOK OF THE DEAD

I do not tamper with divine balance

I stop not a god when he comes forth

I do not offend the god who is at the helm

(Egyptians had no Sabbath)

I do not harm my kinsmen

I do not kill

I am not an adulterer

I do not rob

I do not tell lies instead of truth

I do no wrong or mischief to others


Also,its interesting that "In God We Trust" was not put on paper currency until 1955.
Its been suggested that:


Adding "In God We Trust" to the US currency was an act of religious and political propaganda, allegedly to counter the threat of "godless communism."

www.lava.net...






[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 02:03 PM
link   
reply to post by karl 12
 


Ah, yep. "Godless communism."
That would be me. *thumbs up*

The fact that the same morals of the 10 commandments have shown up in other places suggests to me that they are human-created about the way we want to be treated and treat each other.

Or wait... isn't that in the Bible, too? Coincidence.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 02:10 PM
link   



Deism

Noun:
1. belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism ).

2. Belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.



Sounds like Romans 1:20 to OT (New International Version)
20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.


Not realy- as you can see from the above dictionary defintion it quite clearly states that deism is a 'rejection of supernatural revelation'
and/or 'a belef god is indifferent/unconcerned with occurences here on Earth' (which,when all said and done,is a pretty insignificant planet orbiting a pretty insignificant star).

If the founding fathers were 'deists' and deism means
'a rejection of supernatural revelation' then I suspect the abrahamic mythologies with all their literal accounts of talking animals, wizards, witches, demons,
sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky,
people walking on water,rib women,magic trees,malevolent snakes (and all manner of other magical,supernatural,superstitious tales)
would fall under that catergory.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 02:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
The fact that the same morals of the 10 commandments have shown up in other places suggests to me that they are human-created about the way we want to be treated and treat each other.
Or wait... isn't that in the Bible, too? Coincidence.


Thanks for the reply,yes it appears they could very well be man made and have been passed down or 'borrowed' through the ages.

Claims of burning bushes and 'divine origin via Moses' are all well and good but its interesting to speculate why very similar commandments/rules/suggestions were already in existence and being used by the ancient Egyptians and Sumerians far earlier.

I think its a very optimistic revelation to think that these
'humanistic guidelines' may have had their origins with mankind as it lends credence to the opinion that
'moral integrity is a human attribute and not a religious one'.

As for other instructions/commandments in abrahamic lore,some are not so compassionate.
It seems certain parts of the bible,particularly Leviticus,Deuteronomy and the Torah (first five books) instruct truly beleivers to kill:

Adulterers

Non beleivers

Slaves

Unruly teenagers

Homosexuals

People who do not listen to priests

People who attempt to dissuade 'true beleivers' away from their religion

Why does noone mention these when discussing this topic?

I'd be inclined to ask the OP if the U.S. is indeed 'biblicaly inspired'
and the bible is a 'perfect book' then why do people not mindlessly follow these instructions to?


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 03:07 PM
link   
Here's a little info I came across on the subject of religion and America. Interesting read

Library of Congress

Quotes of our founding fathers

Though it may not have technically on paper been involved, it did play a major part in building this nation whether you believe and accept it or not. Fact is fact. When a majority of people of a nation is of a Christian religion, their beliefs and ideals are what built this nation. So, This would imply that Christianity is the foundation of America.

It wouldn't matter if this nation was founded on islam,judiasim, budhism or any other religion. I have my beliefs and life grounded by one means which works for me and that is CHRIST.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 03:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by Revealation


Aren't you also asked to take an oath ... "do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....So help you God" in a court of law on what book they present is a bible?



Not quite. Although most people do swear on the bible in court, you do have a choice. If you are not religious, or don't want to swear on the bible for any reason, you can simply promise or affirm that you will tell the truth, without the use of the bible.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 03:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by karl 12


People who do not listen to priests

People who attempt to dissuade 'true beleivers' away from their religion


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]


Well, the first one only counts towards those who would be involved with the Church/have contact/believe Priests, right? Or else the Priests are synonymous with police/government/the law/ better voice of the people.

For the second one, that's interesting. What about those who are dissuaded on their own from their religion (probably Christianity, right?). I forward to this thread for an interesting point, maybe: www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 03:30 PM
link   
Are we not allowed to change?
In fact - Should we not be changing?
Is this nation just afraid of what will happen if they change?

Because Christianity was once something that most people "fell" for -
does this mean that we cannot evolve out of this backward thinking?
Couldn't Christianity have run its course?

I do agree with some of the commandments -
although I believe they are just good common loving sense.

For instance - I like these three -
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not kill.
Thou shall not lie

HOWEVER, cearly these commandments - even all dressed up
in Christianity has not helped.

If this nation is a Christian nation -
then something has gone terribly wrong.

Look to Washington -
To some of our Christian leaders.
Stealing? Lying? Killing?

Clearly this "large percentage" of Christianity has not helped this world.
It's an old idea.
And we need to renew.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 03:40 PM
link   
reply to post by spinkyboo
 


You make a very good point. Bring it up with the hardcore Christians, though, and I bet they'll tell you differently.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 03:47 PM
link   
Andy Rooney is spot on!
My hat goes off to him.
The further this country strays from God and shuts him out the worse things will get.
The younger generation of this country is growing up without a belief in God because of their lazy secular parents and one day they will all be sorry.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 04:20 PM
link   
The problem with the arguments set forth by the OP and the others who agree with him is that the examples they give have nothing to do with the basis of this country.

What does a figure on a building have to do with the beliefs of the founding fathers, or the spirit of the Constitution? Nothing. What does the pledge of allegiance or the words on our money have to do with the same? Nothing.

And even if this is a Christian country, what's your point?



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 04:22 PM
link   
Fuuny wasn't it suppose to be "seperation of church and state"

if the US is a christian nation, then god help all of you!

That would be your biggest problem....IMO.



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join