It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

60 Minutes - America IS Christian

page: 1
3
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:03 AM
link   
DID YOU KNOW? 60 Minutes dude, Andy Rooney believes America IS a Christian Nation?

I’ve cut and paste the transcript below from 60 Minutes, I got through email below…of Any Rooney’s musing on the Christian Heritage of America. After you read, please let me know what you think…

And I thought I’d ask some questions…

1) Is it possible that he’s right? And we who are Christians co-exist with those of you that choose not to believe?
2) Do you believe?
3) Do you not believe?
4) Why?
5) Do you think you will change your mind? Why? Why not?
6) Have you had positive faith experiences? When?
7) Have you had negative faith experiences? When? How?
8) Are 10 Commandment displays really that bad?
9) Why is IN GOD WE TRUST on our money?

= = = = = =

Well, Here’s his speech…

DID YOU KNOW?
As you walk up the steps to the Building which houses the U S Supreme Court
You can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is
facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view .
It is Moses and he Is holding the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?
As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the Two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments
Engraved on each lower portion of each door.

DID YOU KNOW?
As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court
Judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?
There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in
Washington, D. C.

DID YOU KNOW?
James Madison, the fourth president, known as 'The Father of Our Constitution' made the
Following statement: 'We have staked the whole of all our political
Institutions upon the capacity of mankind for Self-government, upon the capacity of each and
all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to
The Ten Commandments of God.'

DID YOU KNOW?
Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said: 'It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on
Religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.'


DID YOU KNOW?
Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid
By the taxpayer since 1777.


DID YOU KNOW?
Fifty-two of the fifty-five founders of the Constitution were members of the established
Orthodox churches in the colonies.


DID YOU KNOW?
Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting
the law would begin making law an oligarchy? The rule of few over many.


DID YOU KNOW?
The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said:
'Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers.'
How then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this
Country is now suddenly wrong and Unconstitutional?

Lets put it around the world and let the world see and remember what this great country was
Built on.

It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, it is very hard to understand Why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or 'In God We Trust' on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Why don't we just tell the other 14% to get over it!”

Source: Any Rooney/60 Minutes

Thoughts ATS-ers?


[edit on 10-1-2009 by OldThinker]

[edit on 10-1-2009 by OldThinker]




posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by OldThinker

Why don't we just tell the other 14% to get over it!”


Dont you already?



it is very hard to understand Why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or 'In God We Trust' on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance.



The United States is an officially secular nation; the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion and forbids the establishment of any religious governance.

A secular state is a state or country that is officially neutral in matters of religion, neither supporting nor opposing any particular religious beliefs or practices. A secular state also treats all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and does not give preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion over other religions.



It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God.


It WAS said, almost 20 years ago.
According to a 2007 survey, 78.4% of adults identified themselves as christian, down from 86.4% in 1990

16.1% in 2007 described themselves as agnostic, atheist, or simply having no religion, still significantly less than in other postindustrial countries such as Britain (2005: 44%) and Sweden (2005: 85%).



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:42 AM
link   
Aren't you also asked to take an oath ... "do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....So help you God" in a court of law on what book they present is a bible?



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:53 AM
link   
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I can post lots of authenticated quotes and statements made by the founding fathers of the US which clearly show their disdain for organised religion and their hopes and wishes that America be free from the burdens and impositions made by it.
Shall I bother?



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by Daniem
The United States is an officially secular nation; the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion and forbids the establishment of any religious governance.


Only problem is the modern day America as we know it was built on Christianity and this is why they referred to God in the songs and anthems and pledges referring to America.




A secular state is a state or country that is officially neutral in matters of religion, neither supporting nor opposing any particular religious beliefs or practices. A secular state also treats all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and does not give preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion over other religions.


I tend to disagree about this statment.I myself have been involved in matters concerning this very issue many times and the opposing religion ALWAYS gets preferential treatment,even when it infringing on MY AMERICAN born rights that htey say I have but really don't.

As far as I'm concerned every religion plays the religous card just as much as everyone played the race card. Every one is out to MILK the system and bend it to their favor. What happened to a simple set of Laws based on humanity which apply to everyone? They keep making laws to counteract and manipulate previous laws in benefit of a certain race, religion or creed and you say you actually believe there's no preferential treatment.It's hiding in plain site if you want to observe for yourself


[edit on 10/1/2009 by Revealation]

[edit on 10/1/2009 by Revealation]

[edit on 10/1/2009 by Revealation]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 11:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I can post lots of authenticated quotes and statements made by the founding fathers of the US which clearly show their disdain for organised religion and their hopes and wishes that America be free from the burdens and impositions made by it.
Shall I bother?


You can also find plenty of laws voted on and passed by our lawmakers ,in effect today which not only aren't being upheld but used to the advantage of themselves and every illegal immigrant in this country. I honestly hold no regard for anything anymore (especially written laws on paper made by man). The same laws never apply to different people. They always have different meanings when applied.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 11:05 AM
link   
reply to post by Revealation
 


The constitution is NOT a Christian document. And most of our anthems, and national poems were written by poets, and songwriters, not the founding fathers, or any policy maker.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 11:18 AM
link   

Originally posted by Revealation

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I can post lots of authenticated quotes and statements made by the founding fathers of the US which clearly show their disdain for organised religion and their hopes and wishes that America be free from the burdens and impositions made by it.
Shall I bother?


You can also find plenty of laws voted on and passed by our lawmakers ,in effect today which not only aren't being upheld but used to the advantage of themselves and every illegal immigrant in this country. I honestly hold no regard for anything anymore (especially written laws on paper made by man). The same laws never apply to different people. They always have different meanings when applied.


I don't realy understand what that has to do with the discussion but a good question would be why these statements and quotes made by the founding fathers exist if your opinion about 'America being a christian nation' is true?



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 12:01 PM
link   
i know usa is a christian based country. they teach the poor and the incarsirated to be christians... and they teach christians that israelites are "gods chosen people" also if you damn the israelites "god will damn you"... me im muslim



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 12:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I can post lots of authenticated quotes and statements made by the founding fathers of the US which clearly show their disdain for organised religion and their hopes and wishes that America be free from the burdens and impositions made by it.
Shall I bother?


nah...I've seen um'

What would be impressive would be to post some historical building pictures with atheistic musings/quotes...don't think there are any?

OT



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 12:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by wise words spoken
i know usa is a christian based country. they teach the poor and the incarsirated to be christians... and they teach christians that israelites are "gods chosen people" also if you damn the israelites "god will damn you"... me im muslim



Well, God bless you brother!

Thanks for your thoughts.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 12:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Revealation


Aren't you also asked to take an oath ... "do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....So help you God" in a court of law on what book they present is a bible?



Excellent addition to the discussion !

OT



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 12:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by OldThinker
nah...I've seen um'

What would be impressive would be to post some historical building pictures with atheistic musings/quotes...don't think there are any?

OT


Nice bait and switch tactics there.
I've noticed they're often employed when discussion becomes too honest and the only route left is 'stealthy subject change'.
Next you'll be introducing emotion enflaming ad hominems.

Heres some interesting quotes and information anyway:

United States Constitution

The First Amendment
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...”

Article VI, Section 3
“...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”


John Adams (the second President of the United States)

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”

From a letter to Thomas Jefferson:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

Additional quotes from John Adams:
“Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?”

“The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.”

“...Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”


Thomas Jefferson (the third President of the United States)

Jefferson’s interpretation of the first amendment in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association (January 1, 1802):
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.”

From Jefferson’s biography:
“...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’”

Jefferson’s “The Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom”:
“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than on our opinions in physics and geometry....The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

From Thomas Jefferson’s Bible:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

Jefferson’s Notes on Virginia:
“Reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments. To make way for these free inquiry must be indulged; how can we wish others to indulge it while we refuse ourselves? But every state, says an inquisitor, has established some religion. No two, say I, have established the same. Is this a proof of the infallibility of establishments?”

Additional quotes from Thomas Jefferson:
“It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

“They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition of their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the alter of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.”

“In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”

“Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear....Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it end in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue on the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others which it will procure for you.”

“Christianity...[has become] the most perverted system that ever shone on man....Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.”

“...that our civil rights have no dependence on religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics and geometry.”

"The priests of the superstition, a bloodthirsty race, are as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore."


James Madison (the fourth President of the United States)

Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments:
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”

Additional quote from James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”


Benjamin Franklin

From Franklin’s autobiography, p. 66:
“My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.”

From Franklin’s autobiography, p. 66:
“...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.”

“Point for point, the Founding Fathers’ argument for liberty was the exact counterpart of the Puritans’ argument for dictatorship — but in reverse, moving from the opposite starting point to the opposite conclusion. Man, the Founding Fathers said in essence (with a large assist from Locke and others), is the rational being; no authority, human or otherwise, can demand blind obedience from such a being — not in the realm of thought or, therefore, in the realm of action, either. By his very nature, they said, man must be left free to exercise his reason and then to act accordingly, i.e., by the guidance of his best rational judgment. Because this world is of vital importance, they added, the motive of man’s action should be the pursuit of happiness. Because the individual, not a supernatural power, is the creator of wealth, a man should have the right to private property, the right to keep and use or trade his own product. And because man is basically good, they held, there is no need to leash him; there is nothing to fear in setting free a rational animal.
“This, in substance, was the American argument for man’s inalienable rights. It was the argument that reason demands freedom.”
—Leonard Peikoff, “Religion vs. America,” The Voice of Reason





[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 12:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Revealation
 


The constitution is NOT a Christian document.

....the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...


ummm?

did I see the words 'God' and 'Creator'

Are you throwing the baby out too? Its not either/or...fair?

OT



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 12:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by OldThinker
ummm?

did I see the words 'God' and 'Creator'

Are you throwing the baby out too? Its not either/or...fair?

OT



Deism

Noun:
1. belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism ).

2. Belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 12:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by OldThinker
nah...I've seen um'

What would be impressive would be to post some historical building pictures with atheistic musings/quotes...don't think there are any?

OT


Nice bait and switch tactics there.
I've noticed they're often employed when discussion becomes too honest and the only route left is 'stealthy subject change'.
Next you'll be introducing emotion enflaming ad hominems.

Heres some interesting quotes and information anyway:




Thanks for the quotes, and for the compliment on my debating skills, cause I didn't see any pictures, no flaming from me either

OT appreciated your input...



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:03 PM
link   
Oh and were all supposed to just ignore the Bill of Rights and Constitution over some news show just because they say so?

Talk about Massive Sheeple Manipulation!!

Well guess what...I could care less what 60 miniscule minutes says or its host or anyone else. As long as that Constitution and Bill of Rights are in exsistance, I will believe in that first, which clearly declares the US is a secular nation, always has been, always will be...period.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:06 PM
link   
1) Is it possible that he’s right? And we who are Christians co-exist with those of you that choose not to believe? -- I think he's right. And since I have "chosen not to believe" I would say, given that I am allowed an education/job/home/voice, then yes I think we co-exist alright.
2) Do you believe?- That America is a Christian nation? Yes. In Christianity? No.
3) ----See above
4) Oh, Christianity? Um. Well. I think it's a little far fetched. I am a pessimist, and I also am very logical/scientific. I don't get into Christianity the same way that I don't get into, you know, some novels. The whole Jesus thing is a little much. But I DO think that Christianity/the old and new testaments have a lot of good lessons and are a good guide for being a good person. (Don't steal, lie, cheat, kill, be mean, etc.) I just bypass the religious stuff and I'm fine. I don't think that it -couldn't- be real, but then again, Cthulu could be real too. Christianity is good in the same way that Mother Goose tales make good children. I don't mean that as an insult, it's a good thing.
5) No. I think a lot of people who change their minds were either Christian in childhood, or have families that are. Since neither is true in my case, I don't think I will. However, my boyfriend (currently Pagan) and I have a bet that I want him to give me 500 bucks if he is Christian by the time he is 50. His mother is a pastor, and he has a lot of faith in fate and positive things, so I think I'm right. I don't think I will change my mind, though.
6) Have you had positive faith experiences? When?- Well I sometimes think I believe in fate, and I guess "miracles" but to me they have nothing to do with God and a lot to do with probabilities.
7) Have you had negative faith experiences? When? How? - Nope. God never did anything bad to me, since I don't think he is real.
8) Are 10 Commandment displays really that bad? - Nooooo not at all. They are good guidelines for living your life. If people will remember or follow them better with the whole God/Jesus/Heaven thing, then good for them. I don't need the story, I can read the morals just fine without it.
9) Why is IN GOD WE TRUST on our money? - Because a lot of people who founded this country and parts of our country, and a lot of people who live in it now, are Christian. OR believe in God (Allah, Jews and their God, whatever). I WOULD trust in God if he was real, so I guess it's like really liking a specific character in a story.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by OldThinker
ummm?

did I see the words 'God' and 'Creator'

Are you throwing the baby out too? Its not either/or...fair?

OT



Deism

Noun:
1. belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism ).

2. Belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]


Sounds like Romans 1:20 to OT (New International Version)
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 01:11 PM
link   
Sorry, it will take alot more than a post by an ATS member and some Massive Sheeple Manipulator news program to see it differently. Again there are the founding papers that prove it. The founding fathers may have been Christian or consulted Christian faiths, but the country itself is NOT based on Christian doctrine.

Just look up the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the Decleration of Independance. Anyone... show us where in those founding documents that says this country is a Christian nation.




Cheers!!!!



new topics

top topics



 
3
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join