The altar of the Beast

Is trying to be spiritual a waste of time?

Should we not embrace our animalistic natures?

We are animals.

The Males fight for dominance the females aim for the highest ranking male or the best genes they can find, it is all instinct.

Men tend to throw their genes everywhere because we can breed an unlimited amount of childern,

Women tend to be more selective because they have a limited amount of eggs.

We both protect our kids because that gives our genes an edge, those that did had kids that reproduced those that did not, didnt.

We beat everthing around us into submission because we can. Might does not always make right but it almost always wins. The Meek shall not inherit the earth they will always remain the slaves of the strong, because the man with the guns makes the rules, people might not like it but it doesnt matter.


What does this have to do with religion?

Religion is just a scam of the weak to bring the strong down to their level. It goes against our nature and therefor is UNNATURAL.

People talk of gays being unnatural what could be more unnatural than the weak ruling the strong? Where else in nature does the pack give a # about the weaker members?

Violiance not only is a part of life it is the CENTER of life.

The planteaters eat the plants the meateaters eat them and the plants absorb the leftovers to start the cycle all over again. Mother nature is one mean bitch and penelizes compassion.

Religion goes against everything in our nature and therefore is not only useless but counterproductive.

I believe it was started as a scam for the weaker members of the tribe to get an edge till then everything depended on raw power.


So which would be better living as nature intended or fighting our selves to become something that we not only are not but will never be?

[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Amuk]

Nothing is against our nature.

People may be religious because it is in our nature to want to believe in something greater than ourselves.

People kill each other over resources because our life is more valuable than theirs.

People nurse eachother back to health because it's in our anture to be compassionate.

Humans are equally rational and emotional beings. To deny the side of us that sees meaning is to deny what is part of us, not the other way around.

Relgion is an outmoded form of moral/social control.

If religion can adapt to a changing point of view or society and evolve with the society then it could be useful. But religion doesn't do that.

I think the main problem with religion is that all religions believe they are the one true religion. Why does the existence of a Jewish heaven negate the existence of a christian or muslim one?

Why can't they all exist. If Heaven exists in another plane or dimension or whatever, then why can't they all exist.

Religion will refuse to adapt and in the end religion will either die or become more specific. People will have niche religions or religions of one.

The church of the holy order of the X-Box sponsered by Pepsi.

Or our lady of personal consumption.

I am not religious but I follow a code, that code allows for the existence of all religions and their repsective deities, this in itself is kind of a religion and one that works for me.

And yes being an animal is fun but we must evolve and we no longer throw our seed all over the place because we can, we do it because it's fun...and we can.



Must now go make a spear and go huntin' and a clubin'

Spider the Barbarian!

Also, all study of religion shows it began as a purely 'rational' idea. Early humans saw the world. They saw they could not control it. So it was though that obviously, spirits control things. So we need to appease the spirits to protect ourselves. Eventually these spirits became gods.

The first priests and shamans are the predecessors of our scientists and professors. Science is simply the evolution of religion, which itself is the need to understand the universe. o understand something means you have better chance of surviving it.

EDIT: Added a very important 'not'

[Edited on 4-9-2004 by Esoterica]

I totally agree.
In a way religion helped civilization come about.
In this day and age though, it's become archaic. It holds back scientific progress and limits our actions.

The only comandment I follow is this; Ape shall never kill Ape!
If everyone did the same, the world would be much nicer.

Originally posted by NotTooHappy
The only comandment I follow is this; Ape shall never kill Ape!
If everyone did the same, the world would be much nicer.

Until there's 10 Apes and only enough food to feed 9...

That's why the smart Apes carry guns.

Spirituality and relgion do not need one another so you could still be an animal Amuk, just a spiritual animal.

Now let us all fling poo and pray.

Originally posted by Spiderj
That's why the smart Apes carry guns.

Spirituality and relgion do not need one another so you could still be an animal Amuk, just a spiritual animal.

Now let us all fling poo and pray.

Actually only the stupidest apes (Gorillas) carry guns. Where have you been?

I've been with my gorilla friends drinking banana wine and shootin' at filthy hu-mans where else would I be?

Unless you want me to come over?

I got's me some big ole' sexay monkey hands and you know what they say about big monkey hands, that's right big monkey feet.

Spidermonkey

Is trying to be spiritual a waste of time?

No.

Should we not embrace our animalistic natures?

Yes we should embrace our animalistic natures, and transcend them from a nondualistic nature.

I am sure all your answers lie in realizing your nondualistic nature of EVERYTHING and reality as nondualistic.

Also realizing the power of your intention.

The Quiet Storm

Please explain your answer


I think in a way it causes more problems than it solves because it has us fighting against ourselves and until we accept who and what we are we will waste way too much time in this inner battle.

As for the first priests and shamans being their scientists, I think most were more like just those in the tribe that heard "voices" and seen things that were not there. In otherwords I believe religion was started by the legally insane by todays standards.

What else would you call someone, and this counts today too, that talks to someone that is not there, heres voices telling him what to do, and thinks by preforming certian rituals he can control the future?

I think even today most religion should be classified as a form of insanity.

Religion, technology, governments, etc are all an excuse to be animalistic for 'civilized' reasons. It is all just a guise to convince ourselves that we are something more then animals.

Would it shock you to hear that I can't wait for the end of this reality/world? I just do not see the point of going to work and going to sleep for 5 days in a row and then, with the two days that we have off, spending the money that we made at work to attempt to validate going to work in the first place by placing a value on these things equal to the waste of our life time. I will take an honest savage life any day of the week over the current one.

Rant for the day #1

Originally posted by Jonna
Religion, technology, governments, etc are all an excuse to be animalistic for 'civilized' reasons. It is all just a guise to convince ourselves that we are something more then animals.

Would it shock you to hear that I can't wait for the end of this reality/world? I just do not see the point of going to work and going to sleep for 5 days in a row and then, with the two days that we have off, spending the money that we made at work to attempt to validate going to work in the first place by placing a value on these things equal to the waste of our life time. I will take an honest savage life any day of the week over the current one.

Rant for the day #1

You do that. I'll plan the funeral for when you get eaten alive by a lion or scalped and your heart eaten by a few of your savage bretheren

Originally posted by Esoterica
You do that. I'll plan the funeral for when you get eaten alive by a lion or scalped and your heart eaten by a few of your savage bretheren

And you think that I won't kill to protect myself? Sure there is always someone bigger then you, but that is why people made guns.

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Esoterica
You do that. I'll plan the funeral for when you get eaten alive by a lion or scalped and your heart eaten by a few of your savage bretheren

And you think that I won't kill to protect myself? Sure there is always someone bigger then you, but that is why people made guns.

That is my point we are ALL the savage brethern, and to deny this is not only foolish but to try to live a lie.

The only sin is the lie fostered on us by those to cowardly to take and keep what they want and prefer to live off the strong while at the same time defaming them and hiding behind there protection. Telling people to run to the government or church for guidince and protection when ALL you need is courage and the willingness to get up off your ass and take care of yourself.

It is mental welfare.

I would really like hear from others on this.

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Esoterica
You do that. I'll plan the funeral for when you get eaten alive by a lion or scalped and your heart eaten by a few of your savage bretheren

And you think that I won't kill to protect myself? Sure there is always someone bigger then you, but that is why people made guns.

We would not have guns without the civilization you disdain.

Civilization is the only way humanity will survive. Without it, we will go extinct when our sun expands. But if we work together, we have a very small chance of getting off this rock. Civilization leads to survival, the most driving of human instincts.


[Edited on 4-9-2004 by Esoterica]

Civilization leads to survival, the most driving of human instincts.

In a way I agree but still what you have is just a semi-civilized animal.

There is no reason that we cant have gadgets and still embrace our human nature

Originally posted by Amuk
Telling people to run to the government or church for guidince and protection when ALL you need is courage and the willingness to get up off your ass and take care of yourself.

The only thing you have to do is face the consequences of your actions. Most people, including me, feel trapped by things that we think that we have to do because they don't know another way to do them. This is the cage that we build inside our own heads. You have to go to work because you have to make money because you have to pay for the housing near work and pay for the car to get you to work because you have to work to buy food to sustain you through the day at work in order to work...bla...bla...bla. There are certain things that you have to do in order to be a part of american society, but why does one have to be a part of such a society/reality? Things seem to have been much simpler when you could just build your own shelter and killed/grown your own food. That is the life that I would really like to have. Perhaps I have just come competely disillusioned with the corprate world, but there has got to be a better way then this! Anybody know of one?

Originally posted by Esoterica
We would not have guns without the civilization you disdain.

Civilization is the only way humanity will survive. Without it, we will go extinct when our sun expands. But if we work together, we have a very small chance of getting off this rock. Civilization leads to survival, the most driving of human instincts.

But we already have guns!?! I am all for the advancement of science and such, but perhaps the civilization of humans should not survive. Sure we have advanced ourselves, but only in a way which we can kill on a much larger scale for no essensial reason and claim that it is for a just cause.

Religion is not way for the weak to control the strong, but the opposite. Those that you view as strong are really weak because they are giving in to their selfish agendas. Then, to believe in something with no proof is not a matter weakness, but strength to open up your mind and soul. For those of us that 'genuinly' seek God find proof in healing, peace and love.

Without God, this world would be so much worse than it is now because the weak leaders would be feeding their shelfish needs at your expence - more than they do now.