Well, first of all, I was not using my degree as a defense of my hypothesis. I was using my degree of a defense of my ability to present a logical argument, because you said this:

But, as it stands nothing that anyone with any logic would believe.

You basically stated that nobody with any logic would believe my hypothesis. I assumed that you meant that my arguments held no logic, and therefore I was being illogical, and I countered by saying that actually I am a very logical person, because I have a doctorate degree in a scientific profession. (I have a Doctor of Pharmacy degree, if you really want me to clarify what kind of degree I have. As well as a Bachelors of Science in Pharmacy. There, now you know what kind of doctorate degree I have. )

Also, you said that you did not tell me how I should post on ATS, but you clearly did when you said this:

Once you have accumulated all of your evidence, and then post your findings.

If you will read my post again, you will see that I was not using my degree as a defense of my hypothesis. (I know that pharmacy has nothing to do with 2012 or the New World Order in any way, shape, or form.) I was just miffed that you said that nobody with any logic could believe my hypothesis, and I wanted to show you that I am quite capable of using logic.

I had to use quite a bit of logic in college in order to earn my doctorate degree... and I have to use quite a bit of logic every day that I show up at work at the hospital and have to point out to the physicians why they should not prescribe a certain combination of drugs together, and how that combination could kill their patient... and how that would logically result in the death of (or severe damage to) their patient. They are also able to follow my logic quite nicely.

However, if you would rather I not used my degree or my profession to defend my ability to provide a logical argument...if that offends you.... instead I will use another defense: I will use my debate championship to defend my ability to use logic.

My debate partner and I were our city's undefeated debate championship team one year (this was before college). I can assure you that debate judges are VERY logical people, and they had no problem following my arguments and my hypotheses. So, therefore, I think I have a past history of using quite good logic when presenting my arguments. Is that better than using my degree as a defense of my logic?

Maybe you just aren't very logical. Because I think I laid out my arguments quite nicely. Or maybe you can only think linearly and technically, but not abstractly?

In any case, I don't want to get into a huge argument here. If I offended you by trying to prove that I was logical because I have a degree in a scientific field, then I'm sorry. But you offended me first by saying that nobody with any logic could believe my hypothesis.

Listen... I'd rather debate the issues, and not each other. I was just trying to prove to you that I am actually quite capable of being a very logical person, and quite a few logical people in the world (pharmacy professors, physicians, and debate judges) are able to follow my hypotheses quite nicely. So, let's just stick to the issues, shall we?

Or, if you can't stick to the issues, maybe this is a clear cut case of if someone not being able to attack the hypothesis... so you attack the presenter of the hypothesis?

If not, then let's just call a truce. You offended me (which I believe was quite intentional)...I got defensive and (unintentionally) offended you back....so we're even now.

Truce.





[edit on 12-1-2009 by nikiano]

Then, if the elites of the ancient world have given to the elites of today the knowledge that a great catastrophe is going to happen... why do they have such a rush to settle things right now? Why aren't they already living in those caves? Why didn't they acelerate the creation of a new world order long before the destruction, if the world is going to be destroyed anyway? Why do they have to have a "survival plan" if they are going to survive along with the economic, financial, political system? And, by the way, couldn't be possible that the catastrophe might be so complete that no "survival plan" is needed?
Just guessing.

nikiano, concerning the page that told the earth would end in water, could it also be possible the water would be in the form of rain, and they meant it would be good for the crops and end all famine? I thought I remember they were big on crops and everything, by the way the picture looked it seemed it was being poured from the sky.

Originally posted by wiredamerican
nikiano, concerning the page that told the earth would end in water, could it also be possible the water would be in the form of rain, and they meant it would be good for the crops and end all famine? I thought I remember they were big on crops and everything, by the way the picture looked it seemed it was being poured from the sky.

I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on the Mayan prophecies, or how the earth/sun alignment with the galactic center will affect the earth. I have no idea what will happen when we cross the galactic plane. I only know what I read and hear from others and study myself.

But I am aware of how many "coincidences" there are around the year of 2012, including the NASA information that was recently released (about the solar storms coinciding with a drop in our EM field in 2012), and it seems that there are quite a few disasters or potential disasters predicted for that year!!

So, hey if you add all that up...think of it this way: If our government does NOT have a disaster plan in case something like that should happen, I would think it would be quite neglectful on their part. And given all the information out there about 2012, I would think that they would have at least looked into it.

What we have to worry about is this: the best idea for any survival plan/escape plan is to let others know it exists. If they aren't telling us (the potential survivors) about it, is it because:

1. They are afraid of causing mass panic when people hear about a coming disaster?
2. They are afraid that if people know that the end is near, they'll stop working and our economy will collapse, and thus bring down our government?
3. They are afraid that nobody will LIKE the plan they have in store for us?
4. We're not actually thought of as potential survivors?
5. We will only be thought of as a survivor if and when we actually survive the cataclysm. (It's on a need-to-know-basis.)

There are a myriad of potential answers to that question!

[edit on 12-1-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Then, if the elites of the ancient world have given to the elites of today the knowledge that a great catastrophe is going to happen... why do they have such a rush to settle things right now? Why aren't they already living in those caves? Why didn't they acelerate the creation of a new world order long before the destruction, if the world is going to be destroyed anyway? Why do they have to have a "survival plan" if they are going to survive along with the economic, financial, political system? And, by the way, couldn't be possible that the catastrophe might be so complete that no "survival plan" is needed?
Just guessing.

Those are all great questions.

I'm not sure of what you mean by a "rush to settle things right now." Can you elaborate more on that for me?

Here are a few answers I can think of off the top of my head (but I know I certainly don't have all the answers!) LOL!! I put your questions in italics, and my answers beneath them.

Why aren't they already living in those caves?

Well, Bin Laden is! LOL!

Ok, seriously...I have been hearing of an extensive network of underground bases the last decade or so. I have also heard that in Colorado, there is a huge underground base where our entire government could live for years, complete with medications, food, etc....So, maybe they have the caves prepared for rapid entry?

Also, who would want to live in a cave before you had to? It's like what you do when there is a tornado watch: you know that a tornado is likely, so you prepare your shelter in the basement. (Or, if you live in a trailer, you pray to God that it won't come within 20 miles!) But the storm isn't there yet, and it's a nice day, so you stay close to home and play in the front yard in the meantime. When the wall cloud hits your town, and the sirens go off, you go into the basement and hunker down in the shelter....and you stay there until it's safe to come out.


Why didn't they acelerate the creation of a new world order long before the destruction, if the world is going to be destroyed anyway?

I think because nobody would accept a NWO if there wasn't a reason to. Would you accept a collapse of national boundaries, a collapse of the dollar, a collapse of a feeling of nationalism just becuase someone said that it was a better way to do things? I don't think anyone would.

I think that if there is a NWO, they are waiting to bring it out when they know it will be readily accepted. And if you're starving, if you've lost your house, your job, your family, and if the world is suddenly upside down and the infrastructure is demolished....I think a "survival plan" would sound pretty good right now.

If they tried to institute the survival plan before it was needed, it would be a waste of money, resources, etc... because nobody would probably accept it.

Why do they have to have a "survival plan" if they are going to survive along with the economic, financial, political system?

Because if the event is as cataclylsmic as I'm afraid it will be, then there will be no economic, financial or political system able to survive that cataclysm.

And, by the way, couldn't be possible that the catastrophe might be so complete that no "survival plan" is needed?

Yep, we might all be dead after 2012. But, in the event we aren't, a survival plan would still be helpful. Every hospital in the USA has a disaster plan on file; it's mandatory. You would think every government should have one on file, too, eh?






[edit on 12-1-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 12-1-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 12-1-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 12-1-2009 by nikiano]

Also, I think I may have mentioned this in other threads, but not in this one.

Think about the worldwide seed bank in Norway. Why would they create that just a few years ago?

I don't think it only has to do with official explanation that it's there to preserve the diverse gene pool of seeds and varied species of plants; although that might be part of it.

I think it's a doomsday vault; as others have said. Why go through the trouble and expense of preparing a doomsday vault unless you know that doomsday is coming....soon? I think that's also part of the survival plan.

I will use Hollywood to defend some points here. No, actually let me reinvent how I want to state this. To the point, most people are really stupid. Most people don’t have an education; this is your general audience. Lastly, most people are weak minded, weak physically, and emotionally. I am sorry to state that, but it’s the truth. Unfortunately, I have to agree with the government on some cases. Let me also state that, in no way form or fashion do they have to announce anything that can jeopardize anything regarding the stability of our economy.

For example: Like Hollywood shows in movies, which is actually a real generalization of what would happen. If a comet was heading to us right now and would hit us in a few months. Would the government, knowing this alert everyone? No, they wouldn’t. The affects of what would happen to society is much greater then what the comet would do. Man made destruction can be intense sometimes and there is no reason to go from order to chaos. They will plan for the worst, and hope for the best. Keep in mind though, there are signs that even the government can’t hide sometimes.
Another example I use for religion: Regardless of the fact if any religion exists, does it matter? It brings stimulus to the economy, it brings hope to hopeless, and it stands for justice and peace. To be honest, I am not religious, but scientifically I curse anyone who states anything regarding religion. As a human with a consciousness I say this to you, can you look a child in the eye and tell that child that no Santa Claus exists? The government cannot, they rather let that child be happy and believe in a lie then admit the truth. Why? It isn’t hurting anyone; it brings happiness, so in truth it brings stability. So hopefully you understand this analogy, just as if you had a dying loved one lying in a hospital bed who only had a few hours. Just a child with tears in her eyes looks up at you and asks, “Am I going to live? Is there something more?” Most people would answer that child; yes your fine the doctor said you’re going to be alright.

There is no difference in the situations. Do not judge your government; they are simply doing what is best. Just like you’re every day average person who actually has some intelligence will try to find out the truth for themselves. So they can prepare their loved ones and themselves for the possibility of the outcome.

A few points from above that I would like to quickly expand upon:

From where I stand, doomsday or not, the world is not ready for a stable 'New World Order' society. No matter what the plans are right now, they wouldn't be able to pull it off; if they try to force a NWO takeover we would resist it and they're plans would crumble. These people have built their legacies all on a house of cards, one slight miscue could send all of their work toppling to the ground. I would have to say the earliest still that a NWO assimilation could occur would be around 2020, and that is still pretty early in my books.

Also, like some have already pointed out our governments wouldn't tell us about any kind of catastrophe happening in 2012. They wouldn't be able to keep control any longer if they did. The normal mentality you would encounter in someone you see would be: "it doesn't matter what I do because we're all gonna die in three years anyways!" Society would crumble.

Just some thoughts for now.

I do think this could be partly the case, that a few gov's around the world know what (if anything) is coming and preparing for it while not informing the general population for the sake of continuity and keeping the status quo. I do think that this situation is going to be used for their best advantage, so planning for the survival of the human race but on their terms and fitting their ideal image of the world what could be pretty skewed and distorted. So yeah they could be planning for a worldwide event that will decimate the population and will take full advantage of the situation trying to get us under their rule. But plans can always backfire so we'll just have to wait and see.

Just curious.... has anyone ever found a written copy of the New World Order "manifesto" that clearly lays out their plans? Is there a thread about this somewhere on ATS?

Because if so, I'd love to read it and see if it reads more like a survival plan than a bid for world-takeover.

For example, I keep hearing about martial law being planned. It makes sense that if we do have a world-wide cataclysm, martial law would have to be declared in the immediate aftermath of that cataclysm in order to organize any kind of rescue operation.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by nikiano]

Sounds better than the alternative.
But I cant for the love of god get the ufo/e.t.'s out of my head.
Astronauts and other highranking ppl swear on the bible that what they say are true, do you have a spin on that?
Cos mine is that they gonna wait til 2012 has passed and come down to mess around (again).

Just me writting BS...

Originally posted by Solomons
Except the mayans made no prophecy about 2012...anyway,i dont believe with the evidence you've shown your hypothesis,but ill give you a star and a flag since you've probably put some time into it atleast.

The even didnt know about the year 2012, they didnt use our calendar.
They used the planets and stars to tell and forsee these events...

Excellent hypothesis Nikiano After reading it I felt that you have answered some lingering questions in my head. In my opinion it is much more plausible than 80% of the world population being deliberately slaughtered by the other 20%

i've thought about that before...it all makes sense. it would definitely explain the underground bases.

Great post, I love the hypothesis.

I also believe the government wouldn't tell us of a mass catastrophe in order to avoid rioting and panic. As long as their family is safe in their bunker, they really don't care what happens to the rest of us. It just means more land for them when they come back out.

I have gone back and forth on the FEMA camps. It seems a whole lot of trouble, and not a small task, to round up 80 percent of the population, to drive them to a camp, to then gas them. I've often mused myself if they are there for "after" the event, whatever it may be, to round up and control the remaining 20 percent.

It also fits with the economic collapse. They want to drive us puny humans down to nothing before they go hide in their elaborate underground retreats. It also seems to me they don't care a fig for the earth. Which makes me wonder, are they allowing the contamination and destruction of our planet because they may not need it anymore? At least for a while.