If this doesn't open your eyes on HAMAS I don't know what will, page 2

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reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 07:58 AM by FlyersFan

Get the picture? Not yet? Here's some more ... (and there is plenty more where it came from. Hamas LOADS childrens TV with this stuff) -

YouTube Link

[edit on 1/9/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 07:59 AM by Britguy

What has to be accepted though is that groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah are products of the historical oppression and interference by outside influences. Without Israeli agression and western interference these groups would NOT exist, there would be no reason for them to exist.

Whenever people are oppressed you will eventually find groups organising to counter the oppressors or invaders. The more severe the oppression, the more hardline the response will be. To point out the wrongs of Hamas or Hezbollah without first addressing their grievances is shortsighted and unreasonable. I favour neither side when it comes to killing but when looking at the historical evidence of what has happened in Israel / Palestine, these people now under the hammer have been greatly wronged and have no voice.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 07:59 AM by FlyersFan

And one of my personal 'favorites' ... the head of the Palestinian Childrens Organization - A childs first priority must be Shahada - martyrdom

YouTube Link

[edit on 1/9/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 08:07 AM by johnny2127

Originally posted by Britguy
What has to be accepted though is that groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah are products of the historical oppression and interference by outside influences. Without Israeli agression and western interference these groups would NOT exist, there would be no reason for them to exist.

Whenever people are oppressed you will eventually find groups organising to counter the oppressors or invaders. The more severe the oppression, the more hardline the response will be. To point out the wrongs of Hamas or Hezbollah without first addressing their grievances is shortsighted and unreasonable. I favour neither side when it comes to killing but when looking at the historical evidence of what has happened in Israel / Palestine, these people now under the hammer have been greatly wronged and have no voice.

I can accept that premise. But I would take it a step further and say that is they started with an acceptable or moral goal, they have now been perverted and commit the same acts the set out to stop. Anyone that PURPOSEFULLY targets and kills innocent children are evil. No way around that statement.

Like my Muslim friends say, these radical groups have perverted Islam and brought disgrace to many areas of the middle eastern region.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 08:10 AM by johnny2127

reply to post by FlyersFan

FlyersFan, great inclusions. Keep in mind, these are the same people that many of ATS and in this thread cannot bring themselves to condemn or even criticize.

I pushed one guy for criticism on another thread and when pushed, he said Hamas's mistake was they haven't killed enough Jews. Thats how hateful and twisted the extremists are.

Extremists in every religion are huge problems in the world.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by johnny2127]

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 08:39 AM by munkey66

reply to post by johnny2127

well if you want to look at propaganda and how it influences people, just take a look at the popular online games.
Battlefield 2 -US versus china, or ME
America army online -all the bad guys have towels on their heads
Crysus- another online war game
the list goes on
Grand theft auto where people steal cars and run over pedestrians.

there are so many games in which war is the prime motivation for the game and I can pretty much guarantee that there are more of these games in US homes or Israeli homes than in the homes of Hamas.

you see that both east and west find their own way to introduce their children to death and violence, The US military is actively recruiting online players with the best scores for the next generation of fighting.

I do not agree with what the Islamic children watch on TV as well as what the western children watch, I have noticed an improvement in my own childrens behaviour since I turned off the TV.

But please do not try and blame one side over another, it takes 2 sides to fight.
I mentioned this solution in another thread.
lock the Israeli leaders and the Palestinian leaders in a room and don't let them out until they have reached an agreement.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 08:48 AM by johnny2127

reply to post by munkey66

Now that was a post I can agree with. You are right, each culture seems to be introducing war and violence to kids in different ways. And I wish they wouldn't. You were probably very wise to turn off the TV and other sources of violence.

And you are 100% right, it is not one side's fault entirely. I personally believe the majority of the blame with the current Gaza conflict lies with Hamas. But thats just my opinion, and I feel like I have supported it well.

I have many issues with some of Israel's actions. But I also don't get why most that are anti-Israel cannot admit fault or criticize Hamas. You seem to be one of the few that can. I feel horrible for the Palestinian people. But I really do feel that with hamas in power, there is no chance of peace.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 10:34 AM by johnny2127

If Hamas wanted to really make progress for Palestinians, they would drop from their charter that they will never negotiate in good faith, and that peace is not an option. And they would have kept their militants from firing 3000 rockets into Israel in 2008. If you are that over matched and have that inferior of weapons, and have an embargo and blockade, would you as Hamas or a militant really think firing thousands of rockets into Israel was the path to a solution or the end to a blockade?

All Israel has ever asked for concerning peace was a verified disarmorment. Hamas agreed to disarm in the original accord, but would let them verify that they were keep their word. Verified disarmorment and you have peace and an end to the blockade and sanctions.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:15 AM by BO XIAN

reply to post by johnny2127

Thanks for an excellent post.

It seems like there's a virtually suicidal willful blindness and luxuriating in lobotomized ignorance awash in the land these days.

Dreadful.

Our founding fathers must be incredulous watching our era.

Even though I've studied Biblical prophecy since 1962 and expected more and more of such as it winds up within the span of the baby-boomers' lifetime . . .

I'm still incredulous at the degrees of willful evil AND the degrees of willful blindness afflicting such huge percentages of the population.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:25 AM by johnny2127

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by johnny2127

I'm still incredulous at the degrees of willful evil AND the degrees of willful blindness afflicting such huge percentages of the population.

Put very well. It baffles me honestly. Willful blindness is such a great way to put it.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:39 AM by Jenna

reply to post by FlyersFan

Yay, the children are being brainwashed into thinking that killing is the only way to resolve conflict!

I feel a bit sick now...

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:49 AM by johnny2127

reply to post by Jenna

Exactly. Very sad. And actually this tactic is straight from the Hamas Charter as well. Article 16, the education of generations. This is a sickness.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:58 AM by heyo

I don't think any American has a right to say anyting about isreal. They are a mirror image of it. You guys weren't even attacked and you went to war with iraq, oh, i mean, saddam. Was the death of saddam worth the thousands dead? lol. Your country is STILL there, but since the msm is reporting on gaza, you're herded into a different middle eastern stall so you can view and complain without doing anything. I see a very large hypocrisy in this. Of course, americans with middle-eastern descent are within their right to speak. I would expect a lot more people identifying with isreal than there are, since isreal is even more justified in what they're doing, and the cost of lives has been less so far, for obvious reasons.......i've been wanting to say that for awhile forgive my rantish tone please and understand i beleive no one is without blame......

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 12:09 PM by johnny2127

reply to post by heyo

Not sure if you noticed, but the majority of Americans protested the Iraq war, and kicked an entire political party out of power because of it. you spit venom without thought or conscious of what you are saying.

And I think you are missing a big part of freedom. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if its misinformed or crazy. Every can complain or praise, that is freedom. For you to say only certain nationalities or group have the right to an opinion shows your mentality. Freedom of thought and expression is a trademark of the United States. Oppression and suppression is a trademark of nearly every middle eastern country.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 12:25 PM by DantesLost

reply to post by johnny2127

What exactly is the point of this thread?

As I stated in mine,we already know what Hamas is like,what most people don't know is Israel's p.o.v. and attitude to Palestine.Hence my thread.

Can this conflict be resolved if the whole truth is kept from us?

No.Hence my thread.

And just because people question the Israeli government does not mean they are supporters of Hamas.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 12:34 PM by johnny2127

reply to post by DantesLost

I agree. My issue is that people that are critical of Israel do not seem to able to criticize Hamas at all for some reason. They can't even bring themselves to say that Hamas stating that they want to kill Jewish children all over the world, is wrong and immoral. There are exceptions and some that will criticize. But the vast majority won't. They either divert and won't even comment on it, or they trash the information as being propaganda or from the MSM even when neither is true.

I am sincerely baffled why there is such extreme resistance to admitting anything that Hamas has done is wrong. Its like these people are rooting for a football team, but won't admit their running back sucks regardless of stats.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 12:50 PM by BO XIAN

reply to post by johnny2127

Thanks for your kind reply.

As a sociologist, psychologist and Christian . . . it is still somewhat mystifying to me . . .

--ONE PARTIAL explanation is the DECADES OF CALCULATED BRAINWASHING by the powers that be through the MSM, Hollyweed etc.

--Another PARTIAL explanation is each human's selfish, rebellious, idolatrous, lazy etc. tendencies to expect something for nothing; feel like they are ENTITLED; want what they want when they want it . . . . etc. and to arrogantly think that their way is supreme. Makes them ripe for manipulations from hell.

--Another PARTIAL explanation may be . . . the busy-ness that individuals have allowed the powers that be and fleshy priorities have addicted such a large percentage of the masses . . . no one has much time to hardly think, much less prayerfully ponder and discern even basic REALITY--much more so, TRUTH, GOD'S TRUTH, OBJECTIVE REALITY in the midst of all the delusions, deceptions, charades, brainwashing, disinformation etc.

Perhaps the key issue . . . is that . . . God is determined to demonstrate that even the best form of government OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE

APART FROM HIM

WILL STILL END UP IN HORRIFIC EVIL.

imho, of course.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 02:31 PM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by heyo
You guys weren't even attacked and you went to war with iraq, oh, i mean, saddam.

You are showing a SEVERE lack of understanding of the situation and history.

Early 1990's - Iraq went to war against Kuwait - our ally. It was an unprovoked war against Kuwait - an attempt to take over their oil fields. Kuwait asked for our help and we went in, with UN approval.

Saddam LOST. When he lost he had to agree to UN conditions. The no fly zone for example. The Oil for Food program for another. UN inspectors for yet another example. It was explicitly stated in the conditions that if he broke them, then the UN would come in and force them to be compliant.

Saddam BROKE the conditions over and over. He continually failed to adhere to the UN demands. The US went into Iraq because of Saddam failing to meet the conditions, over and over, and dispite being warned.

The war in Iraq is really a continuation of the Gulf War.

Blame Saddam. He invaded Kuwait. He lost. He failed to meet UN requirements afterwards.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:20 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Jenna

Jenna, my thoughts too...

I've read through the pages, and see the same old arguments, mostly religious-based.

I happen to think that RELIGION is a common mental illness of the Human Race, and it happens to be so unfortunate that Human Beings are STILL unable to break out from under this insanity.

Before I get flamed, allow me one more chance to explain --- It is a given that EACH faith, whether they be Christian, Jewish or Muslim (I did those alphabetically, BTW) they each believe in one 'god'. The curious aspect of this, to me, is that they --- those three religions, actually believe in THE SAME 'god' !!!!

It is the INTERPRETATION that seems to be the problem....AND, that has led to schisms even within each of the three 'faiths' I've referred to, so much that 'sects' have broken off, and branched out, and actually fought each other over their own interpretation of the "truth"!!!!

What a shame, what a shame!!!

It's a little bit like school-yard children arguing over a corner of the sandbox. It is petty, and unnecessary, and a total waste of time, lives, and resources.

Shame on all of you who participate in this travesty!! Shame!!!

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:41 PM by amazing

reply to post by johnny2127

Great O.P. Hamas is a terrorist organization that wants nothing more then to kill. That is the sole purpose of this organization. Period. In fact Terrorist is even becoming a cliche these days. They are criminals, thugs, and suicidal. It's crazy that anyone would stand up for them in any way. It's like saying that a serial killer should be released because he helped another inmate. Faulty logic.

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