What can WE (members) do to cool things off?

The Israel/Palestinian situation is really bringing out the worst in people on ATS these days and it's not just in those threads. I've never seen the staff having to delete so many post and issue so many warnings before. I would participate if a couple things changed. First off, if someone criticizes the Israeli government's actions they are NOT anti-Semitic. Second, if a person criticizes Hamas they are not a warmonger that supports genocide. I have seen more people hurling blanket labels and insults lately than at any other time since I first started lurking here back in late 2004. It seems that people are embracing ignorance in regards to this issue. I long for the days when debates among members were backed up with fact or at least educated speculation was presented without the need for name calling. I saw a post in another thread where a member was ranting about how ATS embraces the hatred of Jews and he was going to the Jewish Defense League about it. Most members know full well that racist and hateful posts are removed by the staff and I feel that they do a damn good job as well! We as members need to do something to "cool the flames" so to speak between ourselves. The staff can only do so much as they are human too and cannot mediate all of the mass amount of squabbles that are going on. This is not confined to the ME Issues forum it seems to be spreading to other forums as well. Members seem to be flaming each other more than usual. Yes, we will always have trolls, off topic posters, and the occasional really pissed off person but we need to change.

I pose this question to you ATS. What can we as members do to help bring the tension back down? I understand that the Israel/Hamas issue brings a lot of emotions to a boil. I would suggest more stringent rules for the ME Issues forum. Maybe along the lines of the posting rules for the debate forum. IMO the ME forum is going the same route that the 9/11 forum went and it's not good. Think about how this makes our community look to people who visit the site for the first time. They may have come here looking for information on UFO's or the Kennedy assassination then they take a look at the ME forum and see us at our worst. I think it's really time that we as members did something to cool the tension before this place explodes.

I've been watching the lunacy for the last week and can give a suggestion.
Go somewhere else. Take a break. Play some music. Get some haagen-daas or something.
If you aren't capable of keeping your cool or being polite to others then leave it alone for a while.
The world will get along without your opinion til tomorrow. .

Lets just let the fight go on a watch.. Who ever wins wins and then it is over...

Its really not a little thing you are asking here. Just think, over there, in the ME people are killing each other every day. Its hard not to get emotional about that.
I do agree tho that at least we need to step back and take a look at ourselves and to monitor what we say and do in the midst of the turbulence.
Thanks for the reminder.

In a thread I posted, I was carefull to also put a link to the israeli side of the story, which seems to have somewhat defused some of the tension, as both sides have had info presented - even though my own feelings are weighted in a particular direction.

Apart from that, I'm not rising to any of the more "forthright" posts, and keeping quiet if I get annoyed by something.

In other words, I am taking responsibility for my own posts, taking a break when I might say something regrettable, and pretty much ignoring those who wish only to be inflammatory.

reply to post by etombo




FACT of the matter is no one wins

Originally posted by wayno
Its really not a little thing you are asking here. Just think, over there, in the ME people are killing each other every day. Its hard not to get emotional about that.

And that is the crux of the issue...

That is what makes people fired up.

I am on no side, but i fight where i see lies, propaganda and dis-info being spread.
If people want to argue/debate fiercely....let them.
They have the RIGHT.


All within T+C's of course.


Edit for T+C comment.


[edit on 9/1/09 by blupblup]

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X
I pose this question to you ATS. What can we as members do to help bring the tension back down?

1. Remember that you are 100% responsible for your posts.
2. Be the change you want to see.
3. Stay out of the Israel/Palestinian threads (my personal choice).
4. Don't respond to emotional outbursts.
5. Report posts you think break the T&C.
6. Remember that WE aren't going to win the war here on ATS
7. Remember that you are NOT going to change people's minds on this.
8. Address the issue, NOT the poster.
9. Don't allow yourself to get "baited". Ignore the bait!
10. If you feel yourself "heating up", STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Very good lay out for a possible plan, but , since the time of the last genocidal war has taken place, it is hard not to get wrapped up in the effects of this particular war.
Thus far 276 children alone have been killed, though I know I "Personally" can't do about this situation, and do remain calm under such topics of discussion, I do want figure out the "How's and the Whys" of such atrocities.

But for the most part, you are correct with your solution analogies of teh whole "Posting" attitudes...

"Great OP!! Needs to be dealt with regaurdless."

reply to post by ShAuNmAn-X

The UN security council passed a resolution 14-0 asking for an end to the fighting and a cease fire. Both sides have rejected it.
I ask a simple question- If the UN has no control over it, what can we do, other than pray?

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

The UN security council passed a resolution 14-0 asking for an end to the fighting and a cease fire. Both sides have rejected it.
I ask a simple question- If the UN has no control over it, what can we do, other than pray?

Well said!!

It's very difficult to prevent determined people from killing each other, or members of the audience from supporting their side.

Somebody's getting rich in the armaments supply business, as usual.

If the postings on ATS stay as bad, and members who have been warned off continue with the flaming, then I suppose the only appropriate sanction is suspension. Put them in the Sin Bin!

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X

I pose this question to you ATS. What can we as members do to help bring the tension back down?

Go back and read this post by Benevolent Heretic. It can't be said any better than that. Learn it. Know it. Live it.

Contrary to the opinions of many, the only agenda ATS oficially has is the free flow of open, reasonable, T&C compliant, polite discourse. No one gets sanctioned for their opinions. The problems arise with the presentation. We understand the passions that get inflamed with topics like this. We saw it most recently throughout the election cycle.

We get accused of being anti-Israel, pro Israel, anti Christian, Christian fundamentalist, Nazi, reptilian, CIA, NWO, and about anything else you can imagine. Every time someone fails to adhere to the T&C and they're called on it, we're accused of suppressing their "side", or being "anti" whatever their position is. All of us on staff have applauded posts with which we may disagree, and dinged posts where we agree in principle but the post is way outside acceptable according to the T&C.

Stick to the T&C, period. We won't always catch every violation in a timely manner, but nothing will be resolved by responding in kind to an inappropriate post. Ignore it, or alert on it.

Litter on the highway isn't cleaned up by throwing more litter on it. And a littered highway isn't license to dump more trash. If you're caught dumping, you'll be fined. Saying, "Hey there was already trash there" isn't going to be an excuse to beat the ticket.

It's an important issue which we want people to be able to discuss. But violating the rules will result in a post ban, and repeated violators run the risk of a perma ban. If you can't debate an issue in a courteous and thoughtful manner, find another issue.

It's a discussion forum. Discuss in a way you'd conduct yourself in person in a public forum observed by educated and courteous people.

It's hard not to get emotional over the issues of the Middle East...not just the current madness between Israel and Hamas, but elsewhere in the ME as well. You, and I, wouldn't be human if we weren't emotional about it...you just have to know when your emotions are getting the better of you.

If you think a post of yours is too emotional and likely to incur the wrath of not only members but the staff? It probably is...step back, go play with your kids, take a walk, play WoW; take a break.

Take a look at Benevolent Heretics post above and follow those words of wisdom, and you won't go wrong...she nailed it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I have to agree. Originally I started to participate thinking I might learn something about the issue that was otherwise ignored by the MSM. I found out that the MSM rules the information, and there are those who adhere to it like it was engraved in stone by the finger of God (I know, not funny.)

In my humble opinion we are never to be certain of the 'facts' delivered by ANY side in the matter. So I try to stay clear of it; although early on that was very hard to do...

I like the idea of tighter rules being applied to the Middle East Forum, along the lines of the 9/11 Forum.

As the OP said, it seems like the vitriol is spilling out across the board. Maybe clamping down on the rhetoric in the ME Forum would help keep that to a minimum. I'm sure the situation is already pushing the resources of the staff to a max, but it would be nice to be able to keep my head down and avoid the worst of the anger just by staying away from those topics.

I also love budski's suggestion about making sure to link a source from each side of the conflict when you start a thread – it's much easier to decide against making an angry or outraged reply when you know that the person you're arguing against is at least aware that there is another way to look at the issue.

This is such a volatile issue with emotions running high; I just decided to stay out of this one all together. Keeping my mouth shut for a change!

Paz y amour
whaaa

reply to post by whaaa


You are wiser than I. I;m not going back 'in' those threads until I can get a feel for which are sincere zealots and which are something else entirely.

Some thrive on anger as a means of entertainment, like a drug.

The only way to cool down is not to get involved, imo.

reply to post by ShAuNmAn-X


One word ...









[edit on 9 Jan 2009 by schrodingers dog]

I ranted on Skeptic's thread a few days back, just before the launch of the ME forum. The gist of said rant was to take a harder editorial stance around these 'stories' as they start to break, but before they overwhelm the site like GFL did. The election was eventually nicely handled, but way too late.

I think, certainly since the election if not before, ATS is on a list for paid-trolls with an agenda -- web based 'guerilla PR' co.'s that are hired to go onto boards to frame an issue (or people of groups/mindsets with marching orders). They are here to inflame and derail legitimate stories the members are tryng to break here/discuss. They in turn inflame some of the legit Mems and here we are.

Mods hands are tied with the 'everyone has an equal voice' motto and intelligent threads like Budski's and Skyfloating's turn into free-for-all vitriol spews.

There has got to be a better way and I think that way is going to involve more than a handful of us taking a thoughtful stance by not getting emotionally baited, or not engaging at all. The site is still going to get overwhelmed for the duration -- and in the instance of the new Middle East forum the duration could be forever.