UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza, page 7

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reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:08 PM by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to post by Retseh

It is regularly assumed that Genocide means the mass extermination on a scale of a Jewish Holocaust .

This is incorrect.

Genocide Convention Article 2 reads as follows....

Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

source

You do realize by those definitions Hamas and Hezbollah are guilty of genocide?

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:20 PM by Alpha_Magnum

reply to post by MikeboydUS

Since Hamas was created by Israel then I would have to charge Israel twice with genocide.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:26 PM by MikeboydUS

reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

That is misdirection.

Hamas is guilty of genocide as defined by the UN.

If they were before the Hague that excuse would not fly.

Humans and Hamas have free will and Hamas committed acts defined as genocide by the UN. There is simply no escaping it.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:30 PM by UmbraSumus

reply to post by MikeboydUS

genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, ...

It is a good point.

The intent is certainly there with Hamas and Hizzbollah , but would you also need the means to carry it out.

It surely must be more than intent.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:33 PM by MikeboydUS

reply to post by UmbraSumus

They have the intent and meet the a, b, and c specifications of the description.
The UN definition only requires one specification be met to define it as genocide.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:38 PM by Alpha_Magnum

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
That is misdirection.

No, it is not misdirection. It is reality. The Israelis and the USA created Hamas. Israel supplied weapons to Iran so they could have Hezbollah time the release of the hostages with Ronald Regan's arrival to the White House.

The USA and Israel and mainly the USA is the cause and the solution to EVERYTHING in the Mideast!

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:38 PM by wise words spoken

its not only that the usa needs to stop protecting israel we also need to stop giving them these bombs,guns,nukes,and robots but i believe the side with the rocks will overall win this battle for which israel has no business starving their own brothers and sisters then killing the children when palestinians attack because they are tired of feeling hunger/seeing the sick and injured die.. israel needs to know that the mountains produce lava like your mouth produces saliva, the experiments on high explosions, which is all caused by the son of man. this wisdom gos deeper than your scuba diver, this wisdom will also clear a mans vision

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:59 PM by Lazyninja

reply to post by Pyros

Just because Darfur is getting less media attention, doesn't make it any more of a genocide than what's happening in Gaza.

If you mean what I think you mean, that what's happening in Gaza is not true genocide somehow, because if the Muslims packed their bags and moved to America, the Jews would not hunt them down and kill them. Well think on this, if the people of Darfur got on a plane and hopped to Europe, I really doubt the Gangaweed would follow them there either.

It is still genocide if it's intentional, you cannot accidentally wipe out an entire people with stray bullets and bombs. Gangaweed cares little about public perception and covering up what it's doing, therefore it is genocide? unlike the Israeli government, who uses everything they have to portray them in a positive light, because they can afford to, and because for some reasons I can't fathom nobody dares piss them off, it doesn't even matter when their story is totally shaky.

Also the focus isn't on Darfur because the MSM and TPTB don't want it to be. Plenty of us are shocked at the callous way the developed world is ignoring the entire situation, and continuing to pour money into conflicts which aren't helping anyone like Iraq and Afghanistan. But because we don't each post a thread about Darfur we're not somehow not allowed an opinion about Gaza.

Please don't hold us to such high standards. Really we are just discussing current events. We have short attention spans and we're a bunch of news hounds, that's all.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Lazyninja]

reply posted on 10-1-2009 @ 11:05 AM by Alpha_Magnum

Originally posted by Lazyninja
If you mean what I think you mean, that what's happening in Gaza is not true genocide somehow, because if the Muslims packed their bags and moved to America, the Jews would not hunt them down and kill them. Well think on this, if the people of Darfur got on a plane and hopped to Europe, I really doubt the Gangaweed would follow them there either.

I think the bold text area above actually sums up everything on this forum having to do with this ongoing war. Since the Palestinians are unable to leave Gaza due to the reality that the Israelis have converted it into a concentration camp and also the Israelis are literally hunting them down and killing them in that very concentration camp you have completed proof that it is indeed a genocide!

reply posted on 10-1-2009 @ 11:55 AM by lunarminer

Please note that the article says, "as many as 257 children have been killed" this is what we call a SWAG (Some Wild Assed Guess) number. I could just as easily say, "as many as 10 million martians were killed", it doesn't mean anything. The use of weasel words in a news article is not ethical reporting.

reply posted on 10-1-2009 @ 11:58 AM by lunarminer

reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

Yet, the Palestinians continue to launch rockets at Israel. Somehow it is OK to kill Israeli civilians? What is the saying, "Don't start nothin', won't be nothin'".

reply posted on 10-1-2009 @ 12:10 PM by Kailassa

Originally posted by fnIrish
I personally agree that there is a religious aspect. I know it is knit-picking but they way I am reading the defenition, there would have to be only one religion affected in order to qualify. There is no way an airstrike can make that guarantee. Again, in my mind I guess I thought there was some number/body count necessary to be considered genocide. I don't know what that number would be. Certainly more than what would basically fit into a commercial airliner.

First, that counters Mike Singhs accusation that the Hamas is committing genocide. Five dead people from firework-powered bombs hardly fill the last Cesna I flew on, let alone a commercial airliner.

Second, that counters claims that the Nazis committed genocide against the Jews, as they killed people from many different religions, not only Judaeism.

reply posted on 10-1-2009 @ 12:13 PM by Alpha_Magnum

Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

Yet, the Palestinians continue to launch rockets at Israel. Somehow it is OK to kill Israeli civilians? What is the saying, "Don't start nothin', won't be nothin'".

FALSE::

According to the Israelis HAMAS (a creation of Israel) continue to launch rockets at Israel

According to the Israel they are not at war with Palestinians but in fact at war with Hamas (a group that Israel created and funded)

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert Said:

"Netanyahu established Hamas, gave it life, freed Sheikh Yassin and gave him the opportunity to blossom," he said, adding that the current political situation in the Palestinian Authority came about "because of the nonsense that was done while Netanyahu was prime minister."

[edit on 10-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

reply posted on 10-1-2009 @ 06:31 PM by Jezus

Why all the discussion of semantics?

holocaust
genocide
slaughter
mass murder

Cal lit what you want.

Vulnerable people, who can not escape, are being systematically exterminated by a more powerful organized force.

OUR TAX MONEY PAYS FOR THE WEAPONS THAT KILL THESE CHILDREN.

reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 12:38 PM by george_gaz

Originally posted by IceColdPro
Hamas came around in the 80's due to the actions of Israel creating a breeding ground for so called "terrorists"

Do you have a source for that information because I cannot find information pertaining to such events that suggest your below scenario lead to the foundation of Hamas. History of Hamas.

If the US military came into your community, blockaded you in there from both sides so you couldn't leave and pushed you in overcrowded and dyer conditions and then stopped aid from getting in, etc, Would you sit idly by whiles your family and children's quality of life is reduced and you are trapped? Or would you rally support to make a change by ANY MEANS NECESSARY to end the blockade.

This is what Hamas is doing.

So are you justifying what Hamas is doing?
Below ... is an example of what Hamas have been doing.

List of Hamas suicide attacks
The criteria used for this list: deliberate attacks committed and claimed by Hamas against civilians using suicide bombers.

1994
Afula Bus suicide bombing April 6, 1994 Afula 9 killed - Hamas claimed responsibility
Hadera central station suicide bombing April 13, 1994 Hadera 6 killed - Hamas claimed responsibility
Netzarim Junction November 11, 1994 Netzarim 3 killed - Hamas claimed responsibility

Source

And they seemed to up their game in the early 2000's:

2001
Netanyah bombing March 4, 2001 Netanya 3 killed
Mifgash Shalom attack March 28, 2001 Mifgash Shalom gas station, Kfar Saba 2 killed
Kfar Saba bombing April 22, 2001 Kfar Saba 1 killed -
Kenyon HaSharon bombing May 18, 2001 HaSharon shopping mall, Netanya 5 killed
Binyamina train station bombing July 16, 2001 Binyamina 2 killed
Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing August 9, 2001 Downtown Jerusalem 15 killed
Nahariya train station bombing September 9, 2001 Nahariya train station 3 killed
Ben Yehuda Street Bombing December 1, 2001 Downtown Jerusalem 11 killed
Haifa Bus 16 attack December 2, 2001 Haifa 15 killed

2002
Jaffa Street bombing January 27, 2002 Jerusalem 1 killed
Café Moment bombing March 9, 2002 Rehavia, Jerusalem 11 killed
Passover massacre March 27, 2002 Park Hotel, Netanya 30 killed
Matza restaurant suicide bombing March 31, 2002 Haifa 15 killed
Rishon LeZion attack May 7, 2002 Rishon LeZion 16 killed
Netanya Market bombing May 19, 2002 Netanya 3 killed
Rothschild Street bombing May 22, 2002 Rishon Lezion 2 killed
Shawarmat Jamil Sokolov Street bombing June 11, 2002 Herzliyyāh 1 killed
Patt junction bus bombing June 18, 2002 Jerusalem 19 killed
Emmanuel bus attack July 16, 2002 Emmanuel-Bnei Brak bus 189 9 killed
Neve Shanan Street bombing July 17, 2002 Southern Tel Aviv 5 killed
'Frank Sinatra' bombing July 31, 2002 Hebrew University, Jerusalem 9 killed
Meron Junction Bus 361 attack August 4, 2002 Meron Junction 9 killed
Tel Aviv synagogue attack September 19, 2002 bus 4, bear the Great Synagogue, Tel Aviv 6 killed
Geha road bombing October 10, 2002 Bar-Ilan interchange, Geha road 1 killed
Jerusalem bus 20 suicide bombing November 21, 2002 Kiryat Menahem, Jerusalem 11 killed

Source

And yet you come across as if you justify such actions?

I certainly do not justify what you allegedly claim led to the foundation of such a terrorist organisation but I would hope you would agree that that still does not justify the allowance to cause mass murder.
I will research the formation of Hamas a little further but your source would be a great starting point

[edit on 11-1-2009 by george_gaz]

reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 12:42 PM by Alpha_Magnum

reply to post by george_gaz

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Opposition Leader Binyamin Netanyahu blamed each other on Monday for the rise of Hamas, highlighting the growing tensions in the Knesset over how Israel should regard the new Palestinian unity government.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert Said::

"Netanyahu established Hamas, gave it life, freed Sheikh Yassin and gave him the opportunity to blossom," he said, adding that the current political situation in the Palestinian Authority came about "because of the nonsense that was done while Netanyahu was prime minister."

Let the buggery begin!

reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 12:50 PM by Wehali

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
While Israeli attacks seem completely unacceptable, the actions by Hamas are also are unacceptable.

But Hamas was set up by the CIA, Hamas does exactly what Israel wants
them to do. How can you expect the Palestine people to fight Hamas while
being bombed into smithereens by Israel?

Isn't it glaringly obvious to anyone with half a brain, that the only reason
Hamas exists, was created, is to offer Israel an excuse to destroy the
palestine people? The people of Gaza have absolutely no operational ties
with Hamas.. it's a terrible construct created to trick public opinion into
watching the war without acting, even supporting the war, although I can
not imagine any person with a heart to support what Israel is doing.

If palestinians had ANY control over Hamas, they would have ceased
launching those newyear firecrackers at Israel backyards, many years ago.

[edit on (11/1/09) by Wehali]

reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 12:54 PM by george_gaz

reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

O ... K I am not quite sure what, if anything, that is attempting to prove other than that Netanyahu released Yassin, which it seems was in return for two captured Mossad agents in Jordan.

It says:

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Opposition Leader Binyamin Netanyahu blamed each other on Monday for the rise of Hamas

Yet you have only posted one side of the story

what did Netanyahu use to blame Olmert for the rise of Hamas?

PS ... I am not into buggery, but I guess I shouldn't knock it until I have tried it

reply posted on 11-1-2009 @ 12:57 PM by Alpha_Magnum

Originally posted by george_gaz
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum

O ... K I am not quite sure what, if anything, that is attempting to prove other than that Netanyahu released Yassin, which it seems was in return for two captured Mossad agents in Jordan.

It says:

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Opposition Leader Binyamin Netanyahu blamed each other on Monday for the rise of Hamas

Yet you have only posted one side of the story what did Netanyahu use to blame Olmert for the rise of Hamas?

PS ... I am not into buggery, but I guess I shouldn't knock it until I have tried it

The part you deliberately left out...

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert Said::

"Netanyahu established Hamas, gave it life, freed Sheikh Yassin and gave him the opportunity to blossom," he said, adding that the current political situation in the Palestinian Authority came about "because of the nonsense that was done while Netanyahu was prime minister."