UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza, page 6
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 23 times


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 01:20 PM by Alpha_Magnum
Originally posted by Retseh
Originally posted by sadchild01

stop making personal insults , its a violation Of T & C ......

trolls like you should be reined in and banned



Trolls are generally accepted to be those who make false and deliberately inflammatory statemements on posting boards, such as people who accuse Israel of committing genocide. Clearly an outrageous comment. And that was something my original post addressed - i.e. the topic/allegation.

Secondly I didn't insult the poster, read it carefully.

Thirdly, your post contains nothing about the original question and you also call ME a troll - both of which are clear violations of the TOC.

Back to the topic.

Israel is not committing genocide, the deaths of those children (if true) are an every day fact of wars around the globe, we simply accept it in African countries, and only cry foul when "developed" nations stand accused.

I still say that those original statements made by the OP were outrageous, unsupportable, and deliberately inflammatory - that's my opinion and I stand by it.


So now since I believe that Israel is committing a genocide. You said this...


Trolls are generally accepted to be those who make false and deliberately inflammatory (SIC)statemements on posting boards, such as people who accuse Israel of committing genocide. Clearly an outrageous comment.


1) Called me a troll
2) Called me a liar
3) Called me outrageous

I do believe all of these violate the ATS's rules since you engaged in an ad hominem attack against me and anyone else that considers Israel to have gone completely "MAD DOG"!


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 01:28 PM by UmbraSumus
reply to post by fnIrish




By this definition Israel is not committing genocide. There are Christians, Muslims, and Jews in Gaza and they have no way of knowing which is which during an airstrike


or religious group

The Palistinian conflict has a religious element , surely that is undisputable.
Yes there are also Jews and Christians amongst the Muslim majorty , there where gypsies / christians /homosexuals etc amongst the Jews during the Holocast.

Not knowing the identities of those you kill is no excuse , if anything it only makes my point for me.

A punch in the dark is not a victimless crime .



reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 01:39 PM by fnIrish
Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to
post by fnIrish



Not knowing the identities of those you kill is no excuse , if anything it only makes my point for me.

A punch in the dark is not a victimless crime .


In this case I was only qualifying Israels actions by the definition given above. Honestly, in my mind I was guilty of envisioning genocide as an attempt to erradicate a race, religion, nation, etc. from the planet. I really wasn't making a case of Israels actions being right or wrong.

Actually, since Israel IS a nation, and Hamas doesn't beleive Israel has the right to exist, by the above definition, Hamas is committing genocide on Israel.


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 01:54 PM by bodrul
reply to post by fnIrish



when the IRA was bombing England
did the RAF go in and bomb the shizers out of Ireland?
killing civilians


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 02:03 PM by fnIrish
Originally posted by bodrul
reply to
post by fnIrish



when the IRA was bombing England
did the RAF go in and bomb the shizers out of Ireland?
killing civilians


No. They began by mowing down a crowd of innocent people with machine guns. I don't follow where you're going with this.

Carefully read the definition of genocide above. Israels actions don't qualify as genocide by that definition. If you're using a different definition then I'd be interested to know what it is. A blue thing isn't yellow just because you call it yellow.


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 02:11 PM by UmbraSumus
reply to post by fnIrish





Do you not except the religious aspect to this conflict ?

It can be hard to miss .



Edit; add word

[edit on 9-1-2009 by UmbraSumus]


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 02:36 PM by sadchild01
reply to post by Retseh



still trolling eh???

you still deny that israel is committing genocide
and its coming froma american whos too blind to see facts ,

One can only hope Israel's genocide in Gaza makes it impossible in future for hypocritical, sadistic governments and their leaders, especially Israel's allies in North America and Europe, to defend Israel's occupation of Palestine. Those governments' sham efforts for a ceasefire have shown a clear willingness to allow Israel's leaders to murder as many Palestinians as they like. The corporate media, for once, have had little choice but to acknowledge the horror Israel has perpetrated.
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That horror overwhelms the relevance of questions about the nature and structure of protest and denunciation. But they are still worth bearing in mind. People in Europe or North America have the luxury of picking their allegiances á la carte. Despite occasional terrorist attacks there is no systematic imposition of violence on them as there has been on the Palestinians for 60 years now.

For the moment, the general progressive consensus seems to be that Hamas is entitled to fight in self-defence against Israel's genocidal violence. Before, the consensus was otherwise. What has changed over the last month is the scale of things. Even the corporate media can no longer conceal Israel crimes against the Palestinians.

If it is all right now for Hamas to act in self-defence, why was it not all right before? Most people now outraged at the Israeli genocide of the Palestinians were quiescent at Israel's low level genocide of the previous months, of the last few years, of the last decades. The destruction of the Palestinians was slower in the past but just as deliberate.

What has happened in the last couple of weeks means people can no longer continue life-as-usual without becoming accomplices to the genocide. But the current massacres will end eventually. People will drop the protests and go back to their normal routine. Unless they continue to urge justice for the Palestinians they will indeed become accomplices to the genocide that has been supported for many years now by Israel's allies, the governments of the European Union and of North America.

The current outrage will probably subside quickly. The international betrayal by Western Bloc governments of the Palestinians will almost certainly continue. People in North America and Europe may protest and lobby from time to time. But their protests, campaigns and lobbying will be futile because their anti-democratic, anti-humanitarian governments are determined to deny for ever any use for the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights except as a wall adornment. The Palestinians will fight on for self-determination and justice to the bitter end, for all practical purposes more or less alone.

That reality makes it important for other peoples, faced for the time being with less extreme forms of imperialist extortion from the governments of North America and Europe, to take stock. They are up against the total hypocrisy and absolute sadism of Western Bloc governments and leaders along with the deep complicity of the Western Bloc corporate media. And they are faced also with the complete whimsicality of international solidarity. The case of Nicaragua is categorical in this regard.

A majority of Palestinians supported Hamas since before the elections in 2006. But progressive opinion still tended to reject the right of the Palestinians led by Hamas to armed self-defence. In Nicaragua, nationally a majority of people voted for the FSLN in the recent municipal elections. But progressive opinion still gave credence to claims of fraud by the imperialist aligned opposition.
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mods rein this troll


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 02:58 PM by sadchild01
Originally posted by fnIrish
Originally posted by sadchild01
Originally posted by fnIrish
Apparently you and your external source didn't read the Geneva Convention agreement either. At least you're "source" was unbiased.


and you provide no source at all

please don't give american propaganda like fox news/cnn .....



The source was provided on page 5 by another poster. What unbiased source for information would you suggest, other than American news.? Al Jazeera, maybe?


BBC,Russiatoday,Countercurrents.org, THe Hindu

Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;

Article 8(2)(b)(iv) draws on the principles in Article 51(5)(b) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, but restricts the criminal prohibition to cases that are "clearly" excessive. The application of Article 8(2) (b) (iv) requires, inter alia, an assessment of:

(a) the anticipated civilian damage or injury;
(b) the anticipated military advantage;
(c) and whether (a) was "clearly excessive" in relation to (b).

It's looks like Genocide!

ther violations of International Law by Israel in Gaza which fail to spare the civilian population, including, but not limited to, the following failures to act in accordance with the International Law of Armed Conflict while his "Perfectly Proportionate" judgment, yet again, exonerates Israel:

* Ignoring the prohibition against attacks that target or indiscriminately harm civilians and the requirement to distinguish at all times between civilians and combatants.

* Failure to adhere to the prohibition against disproportionate attacks by not launching any attack that may be expected to cause harm to civilians or damage to civilian objects that would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

* Failure to ensure the unhindered movement of medical personnel and ambulances to carry out their duties and of wounded persons to access medical care. Any restrictions on movement for genuine security grounds must be temporary, subject to regular review, and imposed only to the extent absolutely necessary.

* Failure to refrain from using "human shields" and by compelling Palestinian civilians to remain inside homes or other structures taken over by the IDF for military operations.

* Failing to take all necessary steps to ensure that the civilian population has access to sufficient food, medical care, and other essential humanitarian goods and services.

* Failure to allow journalists and humanitarian agencies access to Gaza and ensure that any restrictions on access and movement for genuine security grounds be temporary, subject to regular review, and only imposed to the extent absolutely necessary.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by sadchild01]


reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 03:07 PM by fnIrish










reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 04:24 PM by Pyros
What kills me about threads like this is that so many people can invest so much time and energy beating their chest and crying "foul" when the Israeli (read Jews) defend themselves.....and then try to apply that to the word "genocide" to the situation......when a real genocide (Darfur) is happening not far away and there is ZERO reciprocal interest or outrage on this message board on the part of these posters, like the one's above.

Read up on the activities and tactics of the Janjaweed. THAT is genocide. You want to cry about the systematic murder of a people and the theft of their land? Write me a few posts about Darfur. Then maybe you anti-Israeli rhetoric might sound legitimate......maybe.

Oh, but wait. The Janjaweed and ruling powers in Sudan aren't european jews, now are they. Why, they're arab and african muslims! I guess that means, for a lot of the people who post here, they get a free pass.

Some people on this board are using the word genocide either because they want to sensationalize a situation, because they have an unsavory agenda, or simply because they are ignorant of the term and its true meaning.

What is sad is that I truly suspect that a fair amount of posters on this board cry for the "Palestinians" not because of their plight, but because they are a convenient outlet for the posters true feelings. I would really just rather not listen to those crocodile tears.

I'll give Hamas at least one thing to their credit: their not afraid to tell us their true feelings about jews.
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