UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza

Countries that commit genocide against others generally don't supply them with medical aid, food aid, and financial aid. All while the residents of said nation are firing rockets at them.

Just what would you have the Israelis do, they have been suffering a barrage of 80 to 90 rocket attacks daily (now down to about 5 by the way) - if nothing else this military action has given their own citizens some respite.

But since when was anyone concerned about Israelis, right?

So now since I believe that Israel is committing a genocide. You said this...



1) Called me a troll
2) Called me a liar
3) Called me outrageous

I do believe all of these violate the ATS's rules since you engaged in an ad hominem attack against me and anyone else that considers Israel to have gone completely "MAD DOG"!

reply to post by fnIrish

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or religious group

The Palistinian conflict has a religious element , surely that is undisputable.
Yes there are also Jews and Christians amongst the Muslim majorty , there where gypsies / christians /homosexuals etc amongst the Jews during the Holocast.

Not knowing the identities of those you kill is no excuse , if anything it only makes my point for me.

A punch in the dark is not a victimless crime .

In this case I was only qualifying Israels actions by the definition given above. Honestly, in my mind I was guilty of envisioning genocide as an attempt to erradicate a race, religion, nation, etc. from the planet. I really wasn't making a case of Israels actions being right or wrong.

Actually, since Israel IS a nation, and Hamas doesn't beleive Israel has the right to exist, by the above definition, Hamas is committing genocide on Israel.

reply to post by fnIrish

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when the IRA was bombing England
did the RAF go in and bomb the shizers out of Ireland?
killing civilians

No. They began by mowing down a crowd of innocent people with machine guns. I don't follow where you're going with this.

Carefully read the definition of genocide above. Israels actions don't qualify as genocide by that definition. If you're using a different definition then I'd be interested to know what it is. A blue thing isn't yellow just because you call it yellow.

reply to post by fnIrish

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Do you not except the religious aspect to this conflict ?

It can be hard to miss .



Edit; add word

[edit on 9-1-2009 by UmbraSumus]

I personally agree that there is a religious aspect. I know it is knit-picking but they way I am reading the defenition, there would have to be only one religion affected in order to qualify. There is no way an airstrike can make that guarantee. Again, in my mind I guess I thought there was some number/body count necessary to be considered genocide. I don't know what that number would be. Certainly more than what would basically fit into a commercial airliner.

reply to post by Retseh

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still trolling eh???

you still deny that israel is committing genocide
and its coming froma american whos too blind to see facts ,



mods rein this troll

Apparently you and your external source didn't read the Geneva Convention agreement either. At least you're "source" was unbiased.

and you provide no source at all

please don't give american propaganda like fox news/cnn .....

The source was provided on page 5 by another poster. What unbiased source for information would you suggest, other than American news.? Al Jazeera, maybe?

I think Israel should have just ignored all the missles being shot over their way. They can't win any "war" and they should know it.

This needs to stop now!

Missiles kill what? 2-5 people if they are lucky (and thats a stretch)
I am sure more Israelis die in automobile accidents than in Hamas rocket attacks, so they should just ignore it.

Sure after a few years of ignoring it, Hamas will step up the rockets to next generation and then the missiles will kill what? 5-10 people if they are lucky (and thats a stretch)

I am sure more Israelis die in automobile accidents and heart attacks than in the new Hamas rocket attacks, so they should just ignore it.

Sure after a few more years of ignoring it, Hamas will step up the rockets to next generation plus chemicals and then the missiles will kill what? 500-1000 people if they are lucky (and thats a stretch)

I am sure more Israelis die in automobile accidents, heart attacks, stokes, murders, poisonings, assasinations, bombings and bad coffee than in the new Hamas rocket attacks, so they should just ignore it.

Sure after a few more years of ignoring it, Hamas will step up the rockets to next generation NUKES and then the missiles will kill what? 5000000-10000000 people if they are lucky (and thats a stretch)

I am sure more Israelis died in WWII, so they should just ignore it.

Just ignore it... I mean after all...


Think about the children.

BBC,Russiatoday,Countercurrents.org, THe Hindu

Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;

Article 8(2)(b)(iv) draws on the principles in Article 51(5)(b) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, but restricts the criminal prohibition to cases that are "clearly" excessive. The application of Article 8(2) (b) (iv) requires, inter alia, an assessment of:

(a) the anticipated civilian damage or injury;
(b) the anticipated military advantage;
(c) and whether (a) was "clearly excessive" in relation to (b).

It's looks like Genocide!

ther violations of International Law by Israel in Gaza which fail to spare the civilian population, including, but not limited to, the following failures to act in accordance with the International Law of Armed Conflict while his "Perfectly Proportionate" judgment, yet again, exonerates Israel:

* Ignoring the prohibition against attacks that target or indiscriminately harm civilians and the requirement to distinguish at all times between civilians and combatants.

* Failure to adhere to the prohibition against disproportionate attacks by not launching any attack that may be expected to cause harm to civilians or damage to civilian objects that would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

* Failure to ensure the unhindered movement of medical personnel and ambulances to carry out their duties and of wounded persons to access medical care. Any restrictions on movement for genuine security grounds must be temporary, subject to regular review, and imposed only to the extent absolutely necessary.

* Failure to refrain from using "human shields" and by compelling Palestinian civilians to remain inside homes or other structures taken over by the IDF for military operations.

* Failing to take all necessary steps to ensure that the civilian population has access to sufficient food, medical care, and other essential humanitarian goods and services.

* Failure to allow journalists and humanitarian agencies access to Gaza and ensure that any restrictions on access and movement for genuine security grounds be temporary, subject to regular review, and only imposed to the extent absolutely necessary.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by sadchild01]

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Let's keep to the topic folks.

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Q: Why would "Hamas" refuse to agree to a cease-fire, given that they have absolutely NO chance of standing up to the military superiority of Israel?

A: "Hamas" is really an extension of the CIA, just like al-Qaeda, and this "crisis" provides a convenient diversion to what's really going on in the world (i.e. the global economic crisis).


My personal opinion:

1)'Hamas' was founded and is actively funded by the CIA/TPTB.

2)The CIA rigged the Palestinian election as to make it look as if the Palestinian majority voted for 'Hamas', a "terrorist" organization.

3)The CIA paid terrorists to carry out ineffectual terrorists attacks (considering the brutal retaliation of Israel) in the name of "Hamas."

4)This, in turn, provided ample justification for Israel to kill innocent and unarmed men, women and children, all the while knowing this would cause an international outcry and further divide the people of the world (in a sense of those for and those against Israeli actions).

In summation, I strongly feel that the CIA/TPTB have their dirty little fingers pulling the strings on both sides of this conflict. Much like I felt about 9/11.

Nothing, IMO, would divert people from the economic crisis, and it's ramifications, more than the intentional slaughter of innocent children.

What kills me about threads like this is that so many people can invest so much time and energy beating their chest and crying "foul" when the Israeli (read Jews) defend themselves.....and then try to apply that to the word "genocide" to the situation......when a real genocide (Darfur) is happening not far away and there is ZERO reciprocal interest or outrage on this message board on the part of these posters, like the one's above.

Read up on the activities and tactics of the Janjaweed. THAT is genocide. You want to cry about the systematic murder of a people and the theft of their land? Write me a few posts about Darfur. Then maybe you anti-Israeli rhetoric might sound legitimate......maybe.

Oh, but wait. The Janjaweed and ruling powers in Sudan aren't european jews, now are they. Why, they're arab and african muslims! I guess that means, for a lot of the people who post here, they get a free pass.

Some people on this board are using the word genocide either because they want to sensationalize a situation, because they have an unsavory agenda, or simply because they are ignorant of the term and its true meaning.

What is sad is that I truly suspect that a fair amount of posters on this board cry for the "Palestinians" not because of their plight, but because they are a convenient outlet for the posters true feelings. I would really just rather not listen to those crocodile tears.

I'll give Hamas at least one thing to their credit: their not afraid to tell us their true feelings about jews.

Can somebody tell me how many of those 257 children were killed by Israel and how many of the children were killed by Hamas?

The reality of the matter is that you can't. You can assume but you can't prove Israel killed all of those children and many on this thread are making it out to be that way. Even the loss of one child is tragic, sad, and no doubt unnecessary. But to blame only one side for all of those deaths is also unnecessary. Both sides are liable. Bullets have no names no matter which side fires them. My prayers to the family of all of those killed in this battle.