Originally posted by sos37
Well, then, if that report is true, then I'm pleasantly surprised I must say, and I applaud Mr. Obama. It sounds like he also understands you cannot deal with a government that is hell-bent on the destruction of another nation.

So why does he deal with Israel?

Originally posted by CreeWolf
He isn't even President yet!

Great move Mr. Barack Obama! Lets acknowledge this savage organization which openly advocates the destruction of Israel and all other "non-Muslims".

Perhaps, tomorrow, you can have tea with Mr. Ahmadinejad and next week share a Cerveza with Mr. Hugo Chavez.

This is just the beginning of Mr. Obama's "Hugs for Guns" foreign policy. Yup! America's castration begins!

kill all non-muslims? there are jews,christians and muslims living in gaza.Minority yes but they are hardly condemned or attacked by hamas.As to the destruction of israel,one of the leaders of hamas said they would recognise the state of israel in an interview and stop rocket attacks if they..guess what? stopped occupying gaza's land, lifted the embargo and stopped controlling their borders.I guess thats too much to ask though,israel take takes takes and has never given anything in return

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Solomons]

It is ridiculous, in a world torn apart by ideologically based wars, that some how talking to your enemies becomes synonymous with surrender, or something equally ridiculous.

You should always talk to your enemies, and carry a gun while doing so.

Originally posted by loam
How did you arrive at the conclusion that I'm "giddy" with the expectation that you will change your tune?

Because of questions like this.

Originally posted by loam
So does this mean you now disapprove of Obama's current position?

With the information I have, I disagree with him. Yes. I wouldn't say I disapprove, because he has a lot more information than I do. And I trust him to make the best decision or at least listen to those in a position of knowing better than I do. But in my opinion, diplomacy - talking with even our "enemies" (and I don't mean having tea or shaking their hands or making "deals") - is the best way to get to peace.

"Terrorist" is a subjective word. The US invaded a sovereign country and killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people... Who's the terrorist?

But everything in my first post holds true. I think breaking with the Bush doctrine and Bush policies is the way to go.

I think there probably will be a time when Obama or Clinton has talks with the leaders of both sides. Perhaps during the next cease fire.

Great point, Amelie.

[edit on 10-1-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

What's inconsistent? I said I disagree with him. To disapprove implies a negative judgment. I can disagree with someone without negatively judging them or their actions.

BH has a lot of ATS points... he must be right

anyways ... talking with Hamas is stupid .. the only talking i would do is with a nice pistol whipping.

You do not talk with terrorists.. if you think you should for peace, I have news for you noobs, they would kill you without thought .. just like everyone else.

Obama is gonna destroy this country and Ive said that from the beginning. Wake up and smell the coffee, and stop acting like you know it all.

Seeing as how the people of Gaza DEMOCRATICALLY VOTED HAMAS to power, that legitimizes the need for direct diplomacy. Because they were overwhelmingly elected they should be recognized as a legitimate political party, with the right and duty to fight and defend it's territory and it's people. But democracy only counts when it's someone we like I suppose, and even then, maybe not. We have been known to back despotic regimes.

Saddam Hussein, the Shah, Hitler, Pinochet...Hell I could go on, but I think my point is clear. In this case, diplomacy with Hamas is legitimate.

Another good decision by Obama.

Ignoring things and pretending these people will go away is not the way to secure your nation or protect your people.

You can guarantee that all nations defending the actions of Israel (the current US administration) will face an increased level of danger now.

Israel could learn a lot from the rest of the world. The words restraint, communication and compassion immediately spring to mind. Oh, and "learning from your own history" is also a good thing to state.

Unfortunately, while I hope that Obama does live up to all his hype, I am not yet convinced that there will be any remarkable change, due to the "other government" that none of us sees.

But, maybe that's the big "change in Washington" that he keeps referring to? Perhaps he intends to disburse this "government within government".

Originally posted by Cio88
BH has a lot of ATS points... he must be right

anyways ... talking with Hamas is stupid .. the only talking i would do is with a nice pistol whipping.

You do not talk with terrorists.. if you think you should for peace, I have news for you noobs, they would kill you without thought .. just like everyone else.

Obama is gonna destroy this country and Ive said that from the beginning. Wake up and smell the coffee, and stop acting like you know it all.

I see one guy here acting like he knows it all. And that's you.

The guy hasn't even taken office yet, and you are certain that he's going to "destroy America". How much has Bush done while in power?

I'm sorry, but you have zero credibility.

Originally posted by loam
But for my question, do you feel you made that previously clear?

Yes, I feel I made it absolutely clear. You asked if I disapproved of his position, and I answered that while I wouldn't use the word "disapprove", I do disagree with him.

And that wasn't clear to you?

Now that you have made yourself clear...I'm curious why you think speaking with Hamas makes sense?

I have already answered that, too. Was that answer also "not clear"?

Without dialog and communication, the two sides of a conflict are left ignorant as to what the problem or perception is on "the other side". I think it's important to at least be aware of the position and perceptions the other side holds in order to even begin to approach some sort of diplomatic resolution.

Is THAT clear to you?

excellent points made by projectvxn!



[edit on 10-1-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Hamas, like Israel, has refused to honor the U.N. ceasefire resolution. One of the main reasons they cited was the fact that when other countries like the U.S., France, Great Britain, Egypt and some other Arab nations met with each other, they were not invited to the table.

Hamas maintains that it will consider a cease-fire when they are recognized as a legitimate authority in Gaza and when Israel re-opens Gaza's borders, which they have closed to prevent the movement of arms into the region.

Hamas' first demand can be met by inviting representatives to the next round of negotiations. That might mean meeting with the U.S. Secretary of State or some lesser representative, most likely the latter.

From what I see posted today, Obama appears to take essentially the same line as Bush--no negotiations without a ceasefire. So that means a standoff--no negotiations without a ceasefire, no ceasefire without negotiations.

IMO Obama may have to go part way toward recognizing Hamas and at least invite them to the negotiation table. I understand his position and Israel's, but someone has to move this process forward or there will be a stalemate forever.

This is of course, as has already been said, a NO BRAINER.

Communication is the ONLY final solution to conflict. Violence begets violence begets violence. To ignore the humanity in ones enemy is folly. I salute the President Elect for considering a SANE approach to world conflict over war.

Talking to Hamas does not equal acceptance of their ideologies or support for their actions in any way shape or form. To make such an assertion is willful ignorance.

I am amazed at how many here are such strong supporters of violence against a group like Hamas because Hamas is a violent organization. The hypocrisy and illogic of such arguments is blinding.

One comment made in this thread that was particularly entertaining for me was Deltaboy's:

Obama shaking hands with Osama is a really good thing. Kind of like Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam. Obama will be popular.

I love the fantasies created in peoples heads to help them demonize those they disagree with or misunderstand. I highly doubt Obama would EVER shake hands with Osama, and I do not believe for one second he would take such an action for the sake of popularity. To make such a comment belittles oneself more than the intended target of said comments.

[edit on 10-1-2009 by Animal]

Originally posted by Cio88
BH has a lot of ATS points... he must be right

anyways ... talking with Hamas is stupid .. the only talking i would do is with a nice pistol whipping.

You do not talk with terrorists.. if you think you should for peace, I have news for you noobs, they would kill you without thought .. just like everyone else.

Obama is gonna destroy this country and Ive said that from the beginning. Wake up and smell the coffee, and stop acting like you know it all.

I'm not so sure Obama's going to destroy the country anymore because he's proving that he can stand against the real problem which are those in Congress. But I do think trying to talk with Hamas is futile.

Oh, and BH is a "she", not a "he".