Numbers Don't Lie-Israel Is Being Careful., page 2

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reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:46 PM by jam321

reply to post by drwizardphd

Cluster Bombs, White Phosphorus shells, 500lb bombs, cutting off of humanitarian aid, overcrowding, cutting off food, water and power. Need I go on?

Clusters and White Phosphorus shells- Have this been proven a fact?

500lb bombs- Weren't people alerted to evacuate before they dropped bombs?

Humanitarian aid- Isn't Israel allowing 3 hour cease fire each day to allow in food and water?

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:57 PM by gallifreyan medic

Well by using your off target way of thinking.
Certain people were very careful with what they did on 9/11.

I know its a stupid reply but so is what you are saying.

The figures however few/many doesnt excuse whats been/being done.

[edit on 8/1/09 by gallifreyan medic]

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 10:00 PM by jam321

reply to post by gallifreyan medic

Well by using your way of thinking.
Certain people were very careful with what they did on 9/11.

The numbers don't lie, do they?

edit: BTW, it is not a stupid reply. Glad you posted it.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by jam321]

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 10:08 PM by Cadbury

Originally posted by jam321
Are you saying Israel is responsible for all of those dead and injured?

Did I say that? Hamas aren't innocent and I condemn their killing of Israeli civilians. But at the moment it's Israel who've been hammering one of the most densely populated areas on the Earth by land, air and sea. If you're 'being careful to not kill civilians' then you don't pelt them with tank shells and bomb them with American missiles, even if your enemies are there among them. That's just common sense. To do so would not be careful.

Vould you please explain how Israel is slaughtering them?

When a lethal weapon of some type is fired at someone (intentionally or not) and it kills them they die. What happens when lots of weapons are fired and lots of people die the dictionary explains thusly:

Slaughter [slaw-ter] - 9 dictionary results

1. the killing or butchering of cattle, sheep, etc., esp. for food.
2. the brutal or violent killing of a person.
3. the killing of great numbers of people or animals indiscriminately; carnage: the slaughter of war.
–verb (used with object)
4. to kill or butcher (animals), esp. for food.
5. to kill in a brutal or violent manner.
6. to slay in great numbers; massacre.
7. Informal. to defeat thoroughly; trounce: They slaughtered our team.

Hope this helps...

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 10:10 PM by Cadbury

Originally posted by jam321
Weren't people alerted to evacuate before they dropped bombs?

Evacuate where? The countryside? The beach? Israel?

Humanitarian aid- Isn't Israel allowing 3 hour cease fire each day to allow in food and water?

Yes, but on one of those 3 hour cease-fires they shot and killed a UN aid worker and now they've withdrawn.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 10:20 PM by gallifreyan medic

reply to post by jam321

Hmmm.
You didnt get what I was saying then.

I have edited it so you can get where Im coming from.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 10:33 PM by jam321

reply to post by Cadbury

But at the moment it's Israel who've been hammering one of the most densely populated areas on the Earth by land, air and sea.

If they were hammering them there would many many more casualties. That shows they are being careful.

When a lethal weapon of some type is fired at someone (intentionally or not) and it kills them they die. What happens when lots of weapons are fired and lots of people die the dictionary explains thusly:

You are correct on the killing part. I don't agree with the slaughter.

Evacuate where? The countryside? The beach? Israel?

Well they could evacuate to Egypt but Egypt won't let them in. Anyway that's a different story. What I meant is that Israel calls them to evacuate the buildings and houses before they drop the bombs. Another example of them being careful. What other nation in the world do you know that does this?

Yes, but on one of those 3 hour cease-fires they shot and killed a UN aid worker and now they've withdrawn.

Haven't read up on that thoroughly and am still looking around to see who are the ones giving out the humanitarian aid during these 3 hours.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 10:40 PM by jam321

reply to post by gallifreyan medic

The figures however few/many doesnt excuse whats been/being done.

I am not excusing it. Go back and read my opening post. There is an asterisk that says that even one death is uncalled for. I wish there was no death. What I am arguing is to show the people who are posting on these threads that Israel is trying to wipe out the Palestinians, slaughtering them, and similar other words along these line are wrong. Israel has the capabilities to do that in one day if they really wanted to do so.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 04:53 AM by jam321

1.5 million people in Gaza about 4,000 to 5,000 injured and killed in 13 days

What percentage of the population does that account for?

I still don't see why people are saying that Israel is trying to destroy the Palestinians. The numbers don't show that. Furthermore, in the West Bank there are 2.5 million Palestinians who are not involved in the fighting.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 05:38 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Life is cheap for you.
Over 700 dead and 4000 wounded, no problem for you.

When most of those dead are terrorists, as in this case, then I definately have no problem. The others are dead because the Hamas terrorists hid behind them, then I have a problem with the Hamas terrorists and NOT the Israelis who were defending themselves.

Your statement about life being cheap ....

Seems that Israeli life is cheap to YOU.

Originally posted by Cadbury
UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza
How is that 'careful' or 'compassionate?'

Looks like Hamas and the Palestinian terrorists don't care about the lives of their children. Otherwise, they wouldn't be putting them in danger by provoking Israel to respond. They provoked, knowing that their children would be put in danger.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
You know you're absolutely right. Most of the Palestinian population is still alive, so we should just be O.K. with the deaths of a few hundred people.

You do realize that most of those people are Palestinian terrorists .. don't you? You do realize that the Palestinian dead wouldn't be dead except for the fact that the terrorists among them were provoking Isreal to respond .. don't you?

Originally posted by Cadbury
Yes, but on one of those 3 hour cease-fires they shot and killed a UN aid worker and now they've withdrawn.

You do know that BOTH SIDES broke the three hour cease fire ... don't you?

[edit on 1/9/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 07:39 AM by huckfinn

Originally posted by Cadbury
UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza

How is that 'careful' or 'compassionate?'

EVERYONE in Gaza could be dead or dying...That's how. This is easily within the capabilities of Israel. Gaza could be made extinct...do you even get it. Israel, like the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, is wearing kids gloves.

Two days ago, Cambodia celebrated 30 years of the fall of the Khmer Rouge. 1.7 million dead in 4 years. That was Cambodians killing other Cambodians.

Give me a break. I am not moved.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 08:25 AM by Gazrok

The lack of all-out genocide does not equate to "being careful"....

Bombing a school and killing a bunch of kids because a Hamas militant "might" be inside is ANYTHING but careful....

I'm all for Israel defending itself...but I'd have to disagree with any claim of them being "careful" in how they are doing it... Personally, I think they are being far more ruthless than their enemy...and show a disgusting lack of concern for civilian casualties.....

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 08:52 AM by huckfinn

Yes the school was unfortunate, it probably should have been evacuated. Those children should not have been at school. Hamas' decisions were made with the expectation of a military response from Israel.

Perhaps if the United Nations and other's would stop playing political and emotional games with the lives of Palestinian people you wouldn't have to watch children die such brutal deaths. It seems to me that the political and religious philosophies of many people in this world are far more important than the lives of their children.

I wonder how many more children and babies will die before groups like Hamas and their supporters realize that their idea of victory is not obtainable. I think Hamas already knows this and like Hitler did for Germany has decided that the Palestinians in Gaza deserve death.

Israel is a patsy, the fall guy...the real blame is reserved for others.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 09:08 AM by Cadbury

Originally posted by jam321
If they were hammering them there would many many more casualties. That shows they are being careful.

Again, here is the dictionary definition for 'hammering' in the context in which I meant it:

1. To hit, especially repeatedly, with or as if with a hammer; pound. See Synonyms at beat.

[...]
5.
a. To defeat soundly.
b. To inflict a heavy loss or damage on.
v.intr.
1. To deal repeated blows with or as if with a hammer; pummel: "Wind hammered at us violently in gusts"

What's to disagree with, Sir?

You are correct on the killing part. I don't agree with the slaughter.

You have a right to disagree and voice your opinion but the dictionary clearly defines the term "slaughter." A great number have indeed been killed no matter how many the total population of Palestine amounts to.

Evacuate where? The countryside? The beach? Israel?

Well they could evacuate to Egypt but Egypt won't let them in. Anyway that's a different story.

Well if Egypt won't let them in then they can't evacuate to Egypt, can they? Why even say that? And no, it's not a different story at all. You said they were told to evacuate, I said 'evacuate where?' You gave no reasonable answer.

What I meant is that Israel calls them to evacuate the buildings and houses before they drop the bombs. Another example of them being careful. What other nation in the world do you know that does this?

And if you're hiding in a basement or building or something with your family and can't see the leaflets? What if you've seen the leaflets and have evacuated to one of the 'safe' UN buildings and you've been bombed and killed by Israel there too? I repeat; this is not careful on Israel's behalf even in the slightest. They're bombing places where civilians have evacuated to as well as where they've evacuated from. Nowhere is safe.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Cadbury]

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 09:19 AM by Cadbury

Originally posted by huckfinn
EVERYONE in Gaza could be dead or dying...That's how. This is easily within the capabilities of Israel. Gaza could be made extinct...do you even get it.

So because Israel haven't committed absolute genocidal holocaust unto Palestine you consider that reason enough to assert that they're 'being careful?' That is absolutely ridiculous. 'Look! We were careful and “compassionate” because not everyone in Gaza is dead or dying!' If IDF wiped them all out what would you call that 'taking things a little bit too far?'

Insanity!

Two days ago, Cambodia celebrated 30 years of the fall of the Khmer Rouge. 1.7 million dead in 4 years. That was Cambodians killing other Cambodians.

Give me a break. I am not moved.

Regardless of those numbers it still doesn't even remotely excuse the numbers of dead and wounded we see here in this present conflict. Not even remotely. 257 children dead in 14 days (as well as many other civilians) and you ask me to 'give you a break?' Why don't you give yourself a break and give it a rest?

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Cadbury]

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 10:01 AM by huckfinn

reply to post by Cadbury

I didn't say you should excuse Israel, I said you should find comfort in knowing this could have been much, much worse.

I don't think that 100 dead is okay, I think you have no idea just how bad this could have been.

Israel and Hamas are at war. War is where people die horrible deaths. If you don't want people to die horrible deaths, don't start wars.

You are still not realizing that what you are seeing is as good as you could have expected to see, given the circumstances. Some things are going to happen whether you want them to or not, what you are witnessing in Gaza is as good as you could have expected.

Do you see my point? I am not saying 1 dead baby is okay. What you are seeing in the world, not just military activtiy, but also financially and economically and politically and socially is all muted desolation.

Something, Inanna threatened it once, is trying to open up the gates of Hell so that the dead roam the earth and consume the living.

Your outrage for what is happening lacks a true understanding of what could really be happening and a rejection of the difference in Magnitude of a real War.

But I am sure you are determined to continue to express your unenlightened anger.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 10:11 AM by jaamaan

Maybe you forget to take the Depleted Uranium into account.
The dust of their ammo will make sure many more will die.

And i dont think this offensive is ment to kill them all, i think its just met to terrorise these people and make them leave slowly but truly.
So far they made quite some progress in the last decades.

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:02 AM by Gazrok

I wonder how many more children and babies will die before groups like Hamas and their supporters realize that their idea of victory is not obtainable.

Sadly, probably many hundreds more... However, that still doesn't excuse the kind of warfare being waged by the IDF, when their resources allow for much more surgical precision than they are practicing... Of course, when one is executing a revenge operation vs. a military operation, I suppose concern for civilian casualties goes out the window...and we should all be cool with that, right?

Not this fella... Hamas is no better in their use of human shields, or the deliberate firing of rockets into civilians, but two wrongs don't make a right, and Israel had the chance to take the high road here, but has not done so...

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:21 AM by Cadbury

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Cadbury
UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza
How is that 'careful' or 'compassionate?'

Looks like Hamas and the Palestinian terrorists don't care about the lives of their children. Otherwise, they wouldn't be putting them in danger by provoking Israel to respond. They provoked, knowing that their children would be put in danger.

CNN announces that Israel broke cease-fire

reply posted on 9-1-2009 @ 11:26 AM by airteck

I listened to an interview with a person in charge with the UN that decided to pull out of Gaza. His opinion on Israeli actions were directed to the fact that the UN notifies Israel of all locations being used as aid stations(AKA the schools) as well as any convoy movements accurately with GPS. Yet he stated one mistaken attack at one of these locations could be acceptable, even a couple, but 4 to five attacks on these locations and conveys(causing the death of a UN contractor) is unacceptable. Hence the pull out. He also stated that the biggest offense Israel is making is keeping the media at bay on the true situation.

CBC Radio One was the broadcast I was listening to and should be able to be verified.

They are not being careful, they are being reckless and causing un-called for deaths. They also have reports from the Red Cross on attacks on their members...... guess those big red crosses are targets.

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