Numbers Don't Lie-Israel Is Being Careful., page 1

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Topic started on 8-1-2009 @ 05:56 PM by jam321

It is always said that numbers don't lie. We shall soon find out if you agree with that saying.

The population of Gaza is about 1.5 million.

The U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), which feeds half of Gaza's 1.5 million people,

The total dead in 12 or 13 days of fighting is about 765.

Hamas officials said the Palestinian toll in Israel's 13 day-old offensive rose to 765 dead.

The total wounded in 12 or 13 days of fighting is about 3,000 to 4,000.

The Hamas ministry of health said 34 percent of the dead and 35 percent of over 3,000 injured were children.

All 3 quotes from same source

The total number of dead and wounded in Gaza over 12-13 days of fighting is about 4,000 to 5,000.

What percentage of the population does that account for?

I admit that

*both sides are responsible
* even one death is uncalled for
* killing of innocent civilians may have been committed by both sides, intentionally or not
*the madness needs to stop
*many of these controversial shootings or bombings should be investigated by an impartial group.

However, the numbers above prove that Israel is not going all out trying to slaughter and kill as many Palestinians as they can. If that were true the the numbers up above would be way way up higher than what they currently are. There has to be a reason that the numbers are not higher considering that Israel is fighting in a heavily populated area, bombing buildings, and fighting street by street.

That reason is because Israel is being careful. Furthermore, many people think or assume that the dead and wounded count are the people killed or injured by Israel, but are they? Couldn't it be possible that some of the injured and dead were injured or killed, accidentally or not, by the forces that are fighting Israel?

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 06:02 PM by masonwatcher

Life is cheap for you.

Over 700 dead and 4000 wounded, no problem for you.

Gaza medics describe horror of strike which killed 70

Growing evidence emerged today of the bloodiest single incident of the Gaza conflict when around 70 corpses were found by a Palestinian paramedic near a bombed-out house.

Mohammed Shaheen, a volunteer with Palestinian Red Crescent, was in the first convoy of ambulances to reach the site of the blast in Zeitoun since it was first occupied then shelled by the Israeli army.

His testimony confirmed accounts, first reported in The Telegraph, from survivors of the extended al Samouni clan who said they feared between 60 and 70 family members had been killed.

"Inside the Samouni house I saw about ten bodies and outside another sixty,'' Mr Shaheen said.

"I was not able to count them accurately because there was not much time and we were looking for wounded people.

"We found fifteen people still alive but injured so we took them in the ambulances.

"I could see an Israeli army bulldozer knocking down houses nearby but we ran out of time and the Israeli soldiers started shooting at us.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

You see the figures you post are numbers of casualties that make it to the hospital and recorded by the Red Cross.

The Death count is unknown because a survey has not been conducted yet. That is why people call it a slaughter.

[edit on 063131p://pm3109 by masonwatcher]

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 06:16 PM by jam321

The Death count is unknown because a survey has not been conducted yet. That is why people call it a slaughter

Well maybe people should reserve their judgement untill all the facts are in. Obvisiously by what you wrote calling it a slaughter is premature seeing that the death count is unknow. That means it may be higher or it may not. Unknown.

As far as life is cheap and no problem for me stuff. Read where the asteriks are where I said even one death is uncalled for. The point I am trying to make here is that Israel is not slaughtering people as many people say.

Appreciate your thoughts.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by jam321]

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 06:18 PM by 04326

reply to post by jam321

I just started another thread which may give a wider perspective on the numbers and the backgrounds... I don't want to hijack things so i won't post the link but you can access it through my profile and is titled:
Why do they hate the west so much

many thanks.

[edit on 8/1/09 by 04326]

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 06:48 PM by huckfinn

Thank you to the OP. Some things must be done, but they are done with care and compassion to the greatest extent possible.

If the Israel or the West was really what many describe, this whole planet should be a smoldering heap by now and we'd all be too worried about our own survival to care about what was happening 7000 miles away.

Nevertheless, It will be done.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 08:51 PM by jam321

04326, I will look at what you gave me.

Huck, appreciate the comments. What you say about Israel and America is very true. If we were as barbaric as most people want to portray us, many countries wouldn't exist and the ones that do would be next on the list. I am sure there are some bad people in the Israeli army doing things that they shouldn't, but to say that the army is slaughtering the Palestinians is just not true.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 08:57 PM by Cadbury

UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza

How is that 'careful' or 'compassionate?'

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:04 PM by jam321

reply to post by Cadbury

How is that 'careful' or 'compassionate?'

1,495,000 out of 1,5 million are still not on the dead or injured count. I would say that is being careful. Look, I am not celebrating or proud that those Palestinians are injured or dead. I am just trying to show that if Israel really wanted to slaughter or kill Palestinians at free will, the casualties would be a lot higher.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:07 PM by tankthinker

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:15 PM by Agit8dChop

News reports in the begining stated some residents in Gaza were recieving phone calls advising them to leave the house in 24hrs. The man stated he was from the Israeli defense force.

www.news.com.au had a report on this and I posted it in another thread.

The bombs being dropped this time appear small, liveleak.com carries alot of the fighting footage.

I get the feeling Israel understand they cany just drop 2000lb bombs in a city, they are dropping much smaller missiles and striking definitive targets with great accuracy.

Israel, this time are trying hard to avoid civilian casualities and appear to be striking significant targets.

I hate Israel and what they 'have' done, but this time in Gaza they appear to be doing things with a bit more.... morals!

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:16 PM by drwizardphd

Originally posted by jam321

1,495,000 out of 1,5 million are still not on the dead or injured count. I would say that is being careful. Look, I am not celebrating or proud that those Palestinians are injured or dead. I am just trying to show that if Israel really wanted to slaughter or kill Palestinians at free will, the casualties would be a lot higher.

You know you're absolutely right. Most of the Palestinian population is still alive, so we should just be O.K. with the deaths of a few hundred people. I mean who cares, they kill each other all the time over there, right?

Do you realize how absolutely moronic that sounds. How would you feel if Russia took over 90% of the continental US, forced everyone into Florida and then started cluster bombing us? I guess it would be alright as long as most of us survived, in your eyes.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:18 PM by jam321

reply to post by Agit8dChop

You earned my respect with that comment. Your honesty speaks highly of you.

Starred.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:19 PM by munkey66

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Cadbury

How is that 'careful' or 'compassionate?'

1,495,000 out of 1,5 million are still not on the dead or injured count. I would say that is being careful. Look, I am not celebrating or proud that those Palestinians are injured or dead. I am just trying to show that if Israel really wanted to slaughter or kill Palestinians at free will, the casualties would be a lot higher.

they havn't finished yet, plus Israel still has to be careful of how they go about doing things.
just one UN school at a time is all it takes, you don't need to kill them all in one go, when they have no shelters left, when they have absolutely no infrustructure left, no power or running water, when sewerage is over flowing into the streets, you don't need to bomb them all, disease will help the proccess along all by itself.

sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of seeing any child killed because adults have less common sense than a child. at least a child will walk away and cry, not turn around and kill.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:23 PM by jam321

reply to post by drwizardphd

First, appreciate you comment.

Now to the issue. Please don't play the guilt trip card. Throughout the thread I have said that this is not a thread to celebrate those who have died or were injured. It is sad,tragic, and horrific no matter which side your own. This thread is just to show and prove that Israel is being cautious as can be. Could there have been mistakes made that injured or cost a person their life? Most certainly, it is a war. I am not calling for Israel to kill everybody, I am not calling for Israel to kill more so please don't make it sound like I am. Thank you.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by jam321]

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:27 PM by jam321

reply to post by munkey66

sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of seeing any child killed because adults have less common sense than a child.

Your rant is always welcomed. You are right it is not over yet. You know I share your sentiment above. I wish both sides would look at those children that have been killed because of their desire to hurt each other. Just look at them children and ask themselves if it is really worth the life of even one child. Maybe then they will realize that it isn't.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:31 PM by Cadbury

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Cadbury

How is that 'careful' or 'compassionate?'

1,495,000 out of 1,5 million are still not on the dead or injured count. I would say that is being careful.

It's only been 14 days. Because a larger number or perhaps even their entire number aren't dead yet I don't really think that suggests Israel is 'being careful.' No matter how many Palestinians there are -- even if there were 2 million -- 257 children (according to the UN) and all the other dead in a mere 14 days doesn't seem very careful to me at all.

Look, I am not celebrating or proud that those Palestinians are injured or dead.

I didn't think you were proud or celebrate their deaths and injuries and neither did I say it.

I am just trying to show that if Israel really wanted to slaughter or kill Palestinians at free will, the casualties would be a lot higher.

They may not be slaughtering or killing them at free will, but they're still slaughtering and killing them.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:34 PM by drwizardphd

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by drwizardphd

This thread is just to show and prove that Israel is being cautious as can be.

I disagree. If Israel was being cautious, it would enter peace talks instead of recklessly invading.

Originally posted by jam321

Could there have been mistakes made that injured or cost a person their life? Most certainly, it is a war.

It is not a war. It is a disproportionate response to a small terrorist operation. Hamas is not a defensible organization, but Israel is far more guilty. They are guilty of stealing land, abusing human rights, and by this point, genocide. Israel struck first by putting the Palestinian people in such a desperate situation that they ELECTED Hamas to try and save them from Israeli oppression.

I respect your point that if the Israelis wanted to massacre Hamas, they would have killed many more than they have by now. However, what they are doing is slowly subduing the Islamic population by killing just enough to keep their "war" sellable to the gullible west.

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:36 PM by jam321

reply to post by Cadbury

They may not be slaughtering or killing them at free will, but they're still slaughtering and killing them.

Are you saying Israel is responsible for all of those dead and injured?

Vould you please explain how Israel is slaughtering them?

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:40 PM by drwizardphd

Originally posted by jam321

Vould you please explain how Israel is slaughtering them?

Cluster Bombs, White Phosphorus shells, 500lb bombs, cutting off of humanitarian aid, overcrowding, cutting off food, water and power. Need I go on?

reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 09:42 PM by jam321

reply to post by drwizardphd

I disagree. If Israel was being cautious, it would enter peace talks instead of recklessly invading.

You have a right to disagree and I share your view about peace talks. However, we are where we are. If you and I were in charge they probably would be sitting at a table talking peace.