11yo girl Dies - God Vs. Science, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times
Topic started on 8-1-2009 @ 05:02 PM by zysin5


This is an extreme case. But it is biblical... i.e., they are following the bible literally. And the parents where not open for questions.
To me this is murder and neglect!

How can anyone expect a prayer to heal someone who has a serious illness as this little girl did?

Please tell me that? How can a prayer heal someone this sick?
This is comming from a person who belives strongly in mind over matter, and healing with ones energy. But there are times when modern medications need to be consulted now and then!!
Prayers and thought can not cure everything! Science and religion at some point have to come together, and bind together if we are to move onto the next age of human kind.

So many people in this world, sit on their butts, and pray.. While so many bad things happen!! Get off your duff and do something about it!! No lets pray to God to save us~!!

Bullocks!!

[edit on 8-1-2009 by zysin5]


reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 05:31 PM by muzzleflash
reply to post by zysin5



ya good idea, lets make the government go shove pills down everyones throat !




seriously, i support the right of stupid religious nuts to let their kids die 100%

i dont want them breeding!


reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 05:35 PM by muzzleflash
reply to post by zysin5



your suggestion is that we have no freedom of religion anymore?

or freedom of opinion?

because i DEFINITELY wont let them shove pills down my kids throat!
if any pills go in my kids body, im gonna know exactly what it is first, and then decide if its worth the RISKS (because ALL medication has risks!)


they are my blood its my choice, not yours

go dope your own kids up and leave the other people to their own religious insanity


reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 05:42 PM by muzzleflash
Originally posted by ravenshadow13
However, I think the odds are in the favor of Western medicine, and that often patients left to heal by God or on their own suffer.


I agree and disagree.

I agree that religious nuts have almost no chance for medical "miriacles".

But I disagree that western medicine is as good as everyone pretends it is. Its a fact that half the medications are poison and cause more pain than they "treat".

Because its also a fact "western medicine" doesnt CURE anything. Its not profitable. They only "Treat" things , meaning they never get cured only the Symptoms are temporarily relieved (and many side effects can occur)
Lifelong treatment plan = huge pharmacorp profits$$$

Honestly the only thing I trust putting in my kids generally is Tylenol, because I know for a fact its very safe and effective. And the odds are on my side with that very well known drug.

And yes, if my children had diabetes I would be seeking professional medical assistance because I am pretty smart and I want my kids to live.

But I also believe I shouldnt be forced to.

Because if you can force me to make my kid take diabetes medications; than you can also force my children to take horrible poisons like that so called HPV Vaccine (which has been recalled already due to how dangerous it really is).

Get my point? We need to have a middle ground here. Going to either end of the spectrum is bad.

People shouldnt be forced to take medications, but they should be informed about them in a fair truthful manner.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by muzzleflash]



reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 06:45 PM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by muzzleflash


A child has died and your not upset about it. Kinda makes me wish i was a christian cos then i might have the satisfaction of 'knowing' that youll burn in hell for that point of view.
I would agree with you if it was one of the parents who had got ill and died, if they are willing to sacrifice their own life in order to keep to some ridiculous set of laws then good luck to them, i wont shed a tear for they die though, they brought it on themselves. But a child's life has been wasted due to someones ignorance and your not upset? whats wrong with you.


reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 06:53 PM by Anonymous ATS
We have to remember that all things were created by God for the Glory of God in fulfilling the purpose of God. All the technology given to us has been given by God. He is the Author of LIFE. He is the Author of Love. Doctors and medicines are not all bad and can be used to glorify God. However, that's not always the case. This little girl died as a result of ignorence and negligence on the part of the parents(NOT GOD). That's why God gives us a brain, so we can think. I've witnessed miracles without medicine, and miracles with modern medicine and treatments. She should have been taken to a doctor. As for you who scoff at Christians, be not decieved, God will not be mocked. And the day will come when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus Christ is Lord. I pray that some reading this post will bow and confess today while you can. Isaiah 55:6 says "Seek the Lord while He mey be found, call on Him while he is near". The day will come when it will be too late. The bible says Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven draws near. I beg you to fall on your face and beg God to forgive you and heal you of your fallen depravity. If your not sure God is real read "The Evidence That Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell. Or "The Case For A Creator" by Lee Strobel. And listen to Ravi Zaccharias. These guys know their stuff. And most importantly read the Bible and ask God to reveal himself. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. I challenge you to do this. I did.


reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 07:10 PM by antar
Zy, it is not just a religious thing,
My Mom moved to Pahrump Nevada some years ago and on the land where she lived was a little old lady whom the owner of the property let stay in her mobile home on the property. She had alzheimer's, and was also completely blind with cataracts. Her eyes were glazed over with film and yet her light shone so brightly, that people came from far and wide to sit with her.

With her long shiny silver hair and sweet smile she totally trusted the people that were her caretakers and they would place their healing hands upon her eyes and perform healing for her.

From time to time she could see a little better and you would have thought Jesus was healing the blind according to the healers.

Well Mom went over to meet the enlightened woman, and as soon as she took a look at her she said BS! She has cataracts on her eyes! The healers said "And we are healing her..." No! Said my Mom and she grabbed a phone, made an appointment and within 2 weeks the little lady could see perfectly.

The reason she sat silently, was because she had alzheimers, she needed meds to help her. Mom helped her to become whole.

You and I know that healing and naturopathy have their place, and we both respect it, however you and I also know when medical help is important too. I too think its a crock of sheet. I do not want to be the one to say, take the kids away though either, would you? Where would it end?



reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 07:22 PM by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by muzzleflash


Good for you! Never allow a doctor to give you or any of your family any medication unless and until they have explained the reason for the drug, the side effects(You're right, ALL DRUGS HAVE SIDE EFFECTS), and how long you or your family member will have to take it. Ask if there are any alternative treatments. What are the other options? (For example, with adult onset diabetes, a disorder that is often controlled with oral drugs, excercise, proper diet, and weight loss will often bring the blood sugar back under control. Of course you may have to take the oral med for a short time. The same goes for elevated cholesterol, and high blood pressure. In other words, get away from the computer and do something!

When you go to the pharmacy to pick up your medications, the pharmacist should review the meds with you, if it is something you have never taken before. (My pharmacist does this with me, and he knows me, knows I'm an RN, and that I know my drugs almost as well as he does.) Then, when you get home, get on the internet, and check for yourself. Be careful doing this. Avoid the drug company sites, but also avoid those sites which dispense nothing but horror stories. My suggestion would be medscape.com and a couple of others that actually give out decent information.
In response to parents who depend on prayer to heal their child of diabetes, or heart disease, or the common cold, I have this to say.
You, as an adult have the right to accept or refuse medical care based on your religious beliefs. But if there is a PROVEN TREATMENT available for a particular disease, which your child has, and you choose not to use it, then you are guilty of neligible homicide at the very least. If I was the prosecutor I would go for 1st degree murder. Why? Because God gave man a brain capable of accumulating great knowledge. Mankind has learned to treat a great number of diseases, and to actually cure some of them. Guess what? The knowledge to develope these treatments came the God you claim told you to pray for your child and withhold treatment. I believe you could have given your child insulin, and if God chose to heal her, then He would have done it.
To those of you who want to know if I have ever seen evidence of divine intervention, I will say that I have seen a few times that someone I thought was going to die totally screwed with my head (as well as the rest of the nurses) and recovered. Was it a miracle? As far as we were concerned it was. Especially when I ran into that person at Walmart a year later, and although they were still weak, they looked remarkably healthy.


reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 07:39 PM by zysin5
reply to post by antar



Well for those of you like Antar who know me.. Im very much into healing, and NO I DO NOT trust doctors. I have been a child of all religions, and world seeking soul. I found very much solace in Scientology teachings about phyc drugs, and the ill effects it can have on people.

Im very much into mind over matter, and I have not been sick in 3 years.
No colds, no flue. Im in perfect health. And its becasue I don't take tons of stuff and put into my body. So no science doesnt have all the answers.
Yet neither does religion.

There comes a time, where even a druid such as myself would seek western medications for sertin types of illness.

Due to this story.. The child could have been saved, by modern medications. All on the up and up in my studies.
So don't get me wrong here folks, and come at me like I want governments to shove pills down your kids throats..
I prefer you try mind over matter, and when that doesnt work.
GO see a doctor!!

Mind over matter doesn't always work. Healing doesnt always work.
And Im not saying that to try to discredit anyone.
I personal know in my life many shamans, druids, pagans, ect ect.
who live by this. Yet there is a time when modern medication should be thought about.. Or given its due.

I belive Science and religion can come together to create a new age of this world. I wish thats what 2012 was all about really.. Is the shift from 1 way of thinking into a more broad reasoning awakening.

I have studied all religions in great depth. I can heal myself, and others.
But if someone came to me, with this kind of sickness.
I would never treat them.. I would tell them to seek other help.

As our minds can only take us so far.. Sometimes we all need a little help.
Even God.


reply posted on 8-1-2009 @ 07:48 PM by TruthParadox
reply to post by muzzleflash



It's not about the parents, it's about the child.
Freedom of religion should not extend the choice to drastically decrease someone's chances of living.
Yay parents have the right to be dumbasses - but what about their children?
Once it crosses that line it should be dealt with.
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