the Holocaust did NOT happen

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posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Kr0n0s

Yea, i saw the prison camps with starving slave workers on the film but after all, there was a war going on and people did starve, ordinary Germans starved just the same.



Nope. Not at all. You are just guessing now, aren't you? Just guessing and hoping no one will know any better so you will come across as being knowledgable, while you further your agenda.

Germans were not starving at all. That isn't to say that the average, working class haus-frau was able to make lobster thermadoyle (or whatever it's called) for tea, they were obviously on rations but they were far from starving. Germany was purposely trying to starve out Great Britain and they were extremely close to succeeding but even then, in comparison to the prisoners, or rather victims of the concentration camps, they were quite comfortable.




posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by tgidkp
...dont wanna anger anyone here, but...

the older i get, the more resentful i become of the "programming" i was given during my youth.


Well, by the sounds of it, you aren't too far from your youth, so I'd sit back and wait a while before deciding to "re-write" (arf!) what you have learnt.

The reason there has been this "desperation" as you put it for us to "buy into" the Holocaust is because it was relatively only yesterday, it was so devastating to our race (human race. The only race) and because it could so easily happen again and has happened again, see Croatia, Kosavo, Bosnia, Cambodia, Iraq etc etc.

It is desperate that we learn from this abhorrent travisty of our history. It is desperate that we are, to some extent, brainwashed into believing that it is the most sickening of crime before we are able to totally understand it. It is important that your generation is able to see genocide for what it is, immediately and feel absolute anger towards it so a stand can be made against it.

It astonishes me that you would find fault in the way we are taught about Nazi atrocities. Absolutely astonishes me! The reason it is possible for us to be taught in such a way is because we have over-whelming evidence and quite frankly, anyone who claims otherwise has a very transparent agenda.

Unless you are one of those people with an agenda, I would drop your "right on" teenage angst-esque petulance and instead of "re-writing" (hahaha) what you know, actually study it properly and see just how much evidence there is and see what that evidence tells you and see if you don't begin to feel a passion like you have never before felt, of hatred and anger of disgust for the human race and love for the human race and of wanting to be able to make sure any person or group of people can and will be protected from being targeted in the future.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by OhZone
 


The reason the Jewish holocaust is the one people focus on is simple. The level of cruelty the Jews were faced with en mass before their respective deaths. The length of time in which they were held in subhuman conditions, and that fact that this was all being done at the whim of the most evil man in modern history.


A far better speaker than I.
Please read & re-read Osiris1953 entire post.

To add also, people refuse to believe certain events in the past so they can justify repeating the offense.
Many still "hate" and wish to lash out.
Stop the hate and we can avoid another holocaust.

Peace



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by Founding
 


I think I can repeat myself a couple of times in a minute if they're allowed to continue to repeat themselves and feed the world with that false holocaust bs over and over again for the last 60 years.

Theres no debate, as there is no 6 million dead. Zyclon B was an anti typhus measure on prisoners clothes to prevent lice from causing an epidemic in the camps. There were never 6 million jews all put in camps if you do the math and some research it wouldnt even come near that number.

You want numbers if you're so keen of them? Ok... I'll give you some numbers and facts.

Fact 1. Individuals saying that survived the gas chambers in Belsen camp well... that would be a fine achievement, if only there was even ONE gas chamber in Belsen camp. There was no chamber in Belsen camp. www.fpp.co.uk...

fact 2. The numbers... oh the numbers. So many of them... 1 million... 1.5 million... 2 millions..... 4 millions. I wont bother. Here are the reports from Auschwitz. Seems like everyone has their own math laws and calculations - www.zundelsite.org...

fact 3. Ok, Since we're talking about Auschwitz, so there were coke ovens (mind you white-powder lovers that is not what I'm talking about
) - Just a background, Coke-fuel is a derived from distilation of low ash low sulfur coal. So lets do some math. Since the nazis were "obcessive" when it came to "everything must be reported and detailed etc" there are reports of coke deliveries in that camp. For instance detailed reports say that from feb 42 to october 43 that camp received 1032 tonnes of coke, something like 50 per month average which turns into 1800 tonnes for 3 years. So if 1 if the claim was one million it means that 1.7 (roughly almost 8) kg per body. You cant cremate a human body (let alone multiple cremations) and 1.7 or 8 kg of coke.

Ok lets get it straight... 3.5kg of coke barely boils water. Doesnt even heats the bricks. It would need about 30kg of coke per body... so that gives us around 66.000 bodies with 2000 tonnes of it.

Now the bricks have a lifespam of 3000 cremations. You can search anywhere you want but theres no evidence of bricks being replaced at Auschwitz 2 (birknau the infamous extermination camp). Since the camp had about 46 "ovens", that gives us... about 46 ovens at 3000 cremations max with no replacements = 138000 cremations.

At Auschwitz 1 there are even records of bricks replacements at a "double oven" there... there were 3 double ovens there, so the math is 6 (2 ovens each) plus 2 (since one was repaired) times 3000 ( 6 +2 x 3000 ) = 24000. So we have the first 138000 + these new 24000 which gives you a total capacity of 162000 bodies for those ovens.

Now it takes a bit more than one hour to cremate a human body TODAY, with OUR MODERN cremators. All the ovens at Auschwitz were "on duty" for 600 days. They could not run all day long 24 hours a day because of maintenance. So it leaves you with about half a day of useful time to cremate ppl, so lets say 1 body an hour, 12 hours. So here we go... 12 bodies a day, for EACH oven (54 - 46 + 6 and even +2 throwing you a bonus there) ... math goes as 12 bodies times 600 days, times 54 ovens (52+2 replaced... should be 52 but 54 even helps a bit more) - we get 12*600= 7200 bodies (per oven for 600 days)... now 7200*54 = 388.800 bodies (total of all ovens). Kinda short of a million that its said to have been CREMATED there. There was simply no capacity for it.

Fact 4. Zyclon B. Doesnt make sense. If you put hundreds of ppl in a room, airtight, so tightly packed with 10 by 20 room for each ppl, they would all suffocate in an hour. Why gas them? Oh and the fact that had no "showers" that would turn things a bit suspicious and human psychology has to be rewritten since we're talking about hundreds seeing they're going to be gassed



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by candyfloss
 


Interesting post, mate. Do you remember if her ex-boyfriend might have been Rudolf Hoess (Höß in German)? The Commandant of Auschitz. Although, I don't think he was actually a sadist, I don't think he was won to shoot people for fun or take enjoyment in their deaths. I have read his diary but there was so much sadism and murder going on in that period and especially those situation that you kind of lose track of the real psychopathic or sociopathic monsters.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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So they're going to be gassed, and they do nothing about it... they just go... like it was some form of both-part agreeing like a contract.

Ok, so then they claim for Cyanide poisoning. Fine. But Cyanide takes a lot more time cause we have to wait for the room to decrease to safe levels even with masks on. And yet... witnesses talk about no protection and say those cold hearted nazis were even "eating and smoking as they dragged the bodies out". Doesnt make any sense again. Slower, Cyanide is expensive, and dangerous.

Fact 5. The open air cremations. Ok, so basically it takes like 200kg of wood to cremate a body. So something like 20.000 tonnes of wood per 100.000 bodies. Lets say one tonne a tree. Takes about 20.000 trees to cremamte 100.000 ppl over 3 years its like 18 trees a day. 18 to be cut and sawed and transported yadda yadda yadda... all this for each 100.000. And to make things worse, there was no ash, wood or bone in those open pits they like to talk about, that they say it makes the difference between the first calculations and the number lacking to reach a million. Then they said nazis utilized used motor oil and lets say we're cheap in our calculations and we say ... 40kg per body. At something like 0.85 kg/lit It would take almost 5 million litters of motor oil for every 100.000 bodies. So... for a million you would need...

Fact 6. Treblinka. They say nazi used diesel engines to kill the prisoners with carbon monoxide. Nice but if you're familiar with diesel, you know that they work with a surplus of oxygen and dont produce enough CO2 to kill unless running at full power always.

Also in Treblinka, 870.000 exhumed and cremated in the space of four months... would require as previously stated, 200kg of wood per body. Continuing with the 1 tree / 1 tonned ratio, we get something like... 174.000 trees... 1426 per DAY and 89 per HOUR to be chopped and sawed and transported for a 16-hour day, non stop. 100 loggers would have about 70 minutes to chop and saw and do whatever they do to the wood and restart the process. Weird there is no soil disturbance with human or wood ashes. Then of course desperation leeds to desperate measures and pro-holocaust activists have cemented over the place just to ensure no evidence was ever investigated again. - www.scrapbookpages.com...

Fact 7. Well in the end the math is right. The official death book and red cross figures come clean in numbers that are WAY BELOW than the numbers we all get drowned in every year. So the realistic numbers account for causes such as natural death, typhus epidemics, and a sudden stop in supplies due to allied bombings.

German records captured by the soviet army in april 1945, the total death toll in the total of the death camp system over ten years was about 410.000. Auschwitz alone was 73.000 from which 38000 were jews.

So... I ask again, whats the point in a "debate"? We're talking about actual calculations, actual events, actual documents, actual findings... what can be debated over facts?



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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My Father was in Europe during WWII
THe only time he would say much about any of it was when he was drinking and the things he talked about would make horror movies look like a Disney show. The camps were there. People stacked like lumber. They herded these people up. They starved them until they could not do anything to defend themselves. They killed them in many unspeakable ways.

My Grandfather was German. His family served in the German armies during WWII. They also would not talk about their time in the war unless drinking. Then they would tell stories that no one..let alone a kid of 10 years old should hear. They didn't like what they seen but like many they said they did what was ordered of them or they would have been shot.

You could not get my dad and those men in the same room together. The last time it was tried my Father almost killed some of those men. All these men I speak of went to their graves as honest men. and why would anyone want to lie about it to begin with?

The Germans of the time were excellent record keepers. They wrote reports in great detail. I'm sorry but it cannot be denied what happened. I wont argue the numbers of those killed in the Holocaust. It really doesn't matter anymore. It happened, it was wrong. But it happened.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by Bl0rg
reply to post by elliotuk90
 


I try not to post in Holocaust threads because people can't listen to any arguements. But this post. It make me litterally LOL.

Furthmore, being a Polish citizen. We lost more than 6 million people and people don't cry for us. Actually in fact, nobody cares. The holocaust was commited on our soil.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Bl0rg]


We care (Britain) and in fact feel really quite angry and embarrassed that we let you down. Chamberlain has a lot to answer for but ultimately, he was a peace time Prime Minister. He didn't have the knackers for war, like Churchill.

But yeah, in Britain, we are taught in school how we failed Poland. Brits love to feel ashamed about ourselves for something or other, you see;-)

EDIT: PS. Yeah, that post made me chuckle too. I can barely believe that it is a real post, it is almost satirical! Hehe, I really, really hope he did go off to speak to the "correct authorities":-)

[edit on 9-1-2009 by triplesod]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by DrumJunkie
 


Exactly my point. It was done. It was terrible, and it should be put to rest. I agree with you.

It should be put to rest. Enough with the holocaust thing. Its not to be constantly used as an exchange currency for someone to keep victimizing themselves and blackmailing the world using always the same excuse to fit their personal agenda.

Now for the numbers... well... they pull off their numbers first when they see fit and how they see fit and the world has to wake up and see for itself that we shouldnt eat everything we're given without first asking what it is and where does it come from.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by candyfloss
reply to post by sebarud
 


You misunderstand ,I said AGENDA ,no dispute about actual figures.I don't think you know alot about the Nazis.



That's very obnoxious of you, Candyfloss. Extremely arrogant!

What on Earth makes you think s/he doesn't know a lot about the Nazis?

I think what you are really trying to say is "you don't know as much as me about the Nazis".



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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What defines a Jew back in the WW2 era and what defines a Jew now? Out of those 6Million Jews... how many were Poles(3million)., Czechs, Ukrainians, Russians(1million) a.k.a. Slavs? How many of those Jews were Germans(160k), Belgians, Dutch, etc?
When I tell someone that 30 million+ Slavs died in the conflict they brush it off like its nothing, Stalin wasn't a Slav, he was a Georgian so he was not murdering his own people. Being a Slav I'm tired of this entire 6 million dead Jews situation. No one cares about our losses and not many know about it or care to know about it. Here are a few interesting points...

#1 30million Slavs dead... Total dead in ww2... 72.7 million, you do the math.
#2 Total Civilian Deaths; (Slavic Nations).
Russia: 11.4million
Poland: 2.36 million
Yugoslavia: 514,000
Czechoslovakia:43,000
Bulgaria: 3,000

Total Civilian Slav deaths: 14,320,000
Total Civilian deaths in Europe: 23.3 million.

Let's not forget the 20 million dead Chinese.

The Holocaust did happen this I know, but one thing, my dad who was born in '47 tells me is this... Up to Stalin's death the number of Jews killed was at the 3 million mark, after his death it shot up to 6million. I don't know how true this is as I don't have the news papers from that era. All I want for people to notice is the fact that yes people died.. But who was really systematically targeted? The Slav ,the Jew or the Asian... 5:1 Slav to Jew... 4:1 Asian to Jew.

I hope I did not offend anyone on this topic... I hate this topic for the reasons above. Yes I've lost family during the war. I've been to those places... Treblinka, Oswiecim(Auswitz), Bierkanau(sp) and I've been to the Forest of Katyn. I'm just really tired of the Jewish people always being the victim and the greatest one at that, and yes I have ONE Jewish friend who is a Russian, and ONE Jewish friend who is a German, and they got along fine. I'm the Atheist Pole in between.

Again my intent was not to offend anyone, if I did I'm NOT sorry, I guess the truth does hurt.

Engafan



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Hallo,
I just want to say Holocaust did happen but not exclusively to Jewish people but to all European nations .I'm from Poland were is locate nazi Aushwitz...my Grandmother was in this camp for 1.5 year working very hard everyday.The concentration camp was create for slave work force not to kill people..but because lack of food,nutritions ,illness and long days of hard work kill a lot of them.Aushwitz was not only one camp,..next to my city was Gross Rosen,,also it was Treblinki and few more.Aushwitz was the biggest one. Millions died (Jew,Polish,Russians,Chechs,Germans ,French,ect)Poland and Germany was 2 country in Europe were was the biggest Jewish community.After war
was chaos in europe millions missing,relocated,archives and public records in many cases was destroyed,so polish government start some kind of census program,government workers walked from door to door and ask for names DOB ect. What happen is many jewish survivors asked for name did not give them real jewish name ( they were afraid this could happen again)so they said typical polish last names.
Now for example former polish president Mr Aleksander Kwasniewski(typical polish last name ) is really Stoltzman(typical jewish name).so when government finished census they couldn't count few millions jews .
Thats how all those numbers pop up in our modern history.This was horrible time for everyone ,it is amazing how now Jewish people say nothing about many polish people killed by nazi for helping them in Getto ,there is no word of thank you from Israel to Poland for that.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Saint]

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Saint]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by mlmijyd


So why the fixation on here, the media, film, religion, education, about the holocaust and why are we not posting the "50million Chinese did not die" inflammatory Threads?




When you say "we", I'm sure you mean people in the West, ie Europe and America?

The reason is, this was happening in our cities, our close and immediate family were the victims and the perpatrators. Our family fought and died in the war that surrounded it. It is strongly in living memory and we see the results to this day and the evidence is huge and solid and everyone can and has seen it.

I'm sure in China the European, Jewish holocaust is discussed less and the atrocities done on to them by the Japanese much more.

That's straight forward enough, isn't it?

Plus, we have a clear villain here in Hitler and to a lesser degree, his henchmen, we do not have that for the Japanese/Chinese wars. In many ways the war in Europe and its atrocities are extremely iconic which helps it get a much stronger grip on our imagination and fears.

Not to mention we know exactly what kind of things Mengele was doing, we even have photographs.

EDIT: Also, I believe there is a kind of snobbish racism/xenophobia happening here, where many people feel more shocked that something so terrible could happen in such a wonderfully civilised place as Germany/Europe, while fobbing off what happens in Asia in a kind of "oh, well, you expect it from them, don't you?" way. Know what I mean?

[edit on 9-1-2009 by triplesod]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 


Look okay it did happen but however, it was not for sure 600,000. 00 maybe a few 10,000 of thousand but not 600,000.oo milion if so where is the proof?



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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Osiris1953- Don't forget the fact that surviving Jews around the world made a decision to not let the world forget, no matter what. I have been first person stories since I was a child.

To all:

This thread makes me weep for the future. So many people who will say anything to deny something they don't like despite overwhelming evidence. A person who posts blatant bigotry. Another who posts something as a fact that can be proven wrong with a simple search (Hitler having a Jewish mom).

These types of things and ignorant people are the reason that Jews will not let the world forget.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


What do you think Nazi means? It even comes from Hebrew.


Nassi is a Hebrew term meaning "Prince roughly". In Antiquity, it was the title given to the leader of Sanhédrin. This title was created into when Sanhédrin lost confidence in the capacity of the priests of high row to be used as leaders. In Antiquity, 13 Adar was always announced by Nassi. Certain important Jewish personalities carried this title, for example Rabbi Yehouda HaNassi. In the modern use, Nassi also means "President". It is the term used in modern Hebrew to appoint any Head of democratically elected State.


That's a little odd no?

[edit on 9-1-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



What are you on about.? It appears that it is you who doesn't know what "Nazi" means. Just because one word sounds vaguely similar to another does not mean there is any relation between them.
It is an abbreviation, or shortening of National Socialism (German - Nationalsozialismus) for the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

Bizarre that you would think whatever bonkers thing you were thinking.





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