the Holocaust did NOT happen

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posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by Osiris1953
 



I know...



I have often dreamed of meeting a holocaust denier...you know, after a few beers

Perhaps a dark alley....


Never mind a few beers, nor a dark alley. Right there in broad daylight in a public place stone cold sober. No problem, no regrets




posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


Dude, truth be told, you got owned! I read that whole debate, and I cant believe you would even send people to that thread
How you were awarded the win is amazing actually, and I don't have a side in the issue, but as far as a debate is concerned, YOU LOST!!!



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyR
 


Why don't you debate him.

Ten bucks says this guy or girl talks loud but walks small.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by MilitieTempliSalmo

One person killed by the "holocaust" and the reasons behind it is bad enough... but the 6 million figure is just ridiculous.


Is it really?

Heres some interesting maths about Aushwitz

And thats just one camp.

Think again.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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I don't think that anyone denies that a lot of people died, and suffered greatly
The point of the big denial is that 6 million Jews number.
Other details also do not track.
The alleged killing by gassing for instance. As raven mentioned, there were problems with lice. Thus the reason for shaving heads. The clothing was treated with the gas for lice.

Also the idea that people were killed by being placed in ovens is highly impractical. Consider the fuel that would take. It is enough that people were dying and needed to be cremated. The cremation chamber may have been referred to as an oven and started that story.

There have also been some really bizarre stories circulating which I won't get into. Truth is they never happened.

The other problem "deniers" have is that only the Jews get sympathy (and money) out of this.
How about the holocaust of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Seldom is there a tear for them. And no museum either.
And then there were those 40 or so million Russians that were "holocausted" when the commies got in power. No tears for them either. And no museum for them.
And the Pol Pot regime "holocausted" millions too. No tears for them And no museum either.

There have been lots of such "holocausts" thruout history, so what is so special about the Jews that they get all this special treatment?

They even wanted to copyright the word "Holocaust" to mean strictly this one event as pertaining to them. They wanted it to be illegal for anyone to use it otherwise.

And they wonder why they get so much flack from it.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 


but first of all you do forget that there were more victims from another nationalities than Jews alone. and the Auschvitz was the biggest one. try the jewsih writer Finkelstein - "holocaust bussiness". it is going to open your eyes.

but to make it clear I totally agree on fact of holocaust. but the numbers are wrong.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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The evidence is in the world almonac, the number of Jews from 1939 to 1945 stayed almost the same.
Meyers Handlexicon, Germany 1921 -- 11,600,000

World Almanac, 1925, pg. 752 -- 15,630,000, "In 1925 a census of Palestine gave a total of 115,151 Jews"

World Almanac, 1929, pg. 727 -- 15,630,000

National Council of Churches 1930 -- 15,600 ,000

March 24, 1933, jewish newspaper Daily Express -- 14,000,000 jews worldwide

World Almanac, 1933, pg. 419 -- 15,316,359, ["The estimate for Jews in the above table is for 1933, and is by the American Jewish Committee"

World Almanac, 1936, pg. 748 -- world jewish population = 15,753,633

World Almanac, 1938, pg. 510 -- world jewish population = 15,748,091, with 240,000 in Germany

American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 -- 15,600,000

World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population -- 15,319,359

World Almanac, 1941, pg. 510: World Jewish Population -- 15,748,091

World Almanac, 1942, pg. 849: World Jewish Population -- 15,192,089 ("Jews include Jews by race not necessarily by religion")

World Almanac USA, 1947, pg. 748: World Jewish Population -- 15,690,000

World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population -- 15,713,638

Statistical Handbook of Council of Churches USA 1951 -- 15,300,000

Encyclopedia Britannica's 1955 Book of the Year -- 11,627,450, "Jewish figures include all Jews whether members of a synagogue or not"

World Almanac, US News & World Report, 1983 population of jews -- 16,820,850

World Almanac, 1996, pg. 646: World Jewish Population -- 14,117,000

World Almanac & Book of Facts, 1989: World Jewish Population --18,080,000

World Almanac & Book of Facts, 2001: World Jewish Population -- 13,200,000



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 

I hate violence in any way...
But you got that right why they cry and believe they are so freaking especials.
I got and Idea Darfur people claiming US for themselfs, I'll support that before UN, or for that matter why not the palestinians moving and claiming New York State for all the trouble within 60 years or so since the ocupation of THEIR lands.
I got more people to nominate: Salvadorians could take Tennesse, or Mexicans could claim back Texas and some other states, because let's not forget a Holocaust is not only about direct violence it comes together with a depravation of other kind of human rights. Don't you consider economical ENFORCEMENT a way of violence... How many have die out of lack of means because the works of economical hitmen from the "United? States of (North)America.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 07:10 PM
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6 million is ridiculous... stop with that false claim for once!

Now... Can I see the reports and the files on all 6 million people that died please? Or even a wall with the 6 million names written there like a monument to the victims of the holocaust (like the us have those walls full of names of every war)

Dental records would be too much to ask right?

The nazis reported EVERYTHING from EVERYONE, from medical to personal belongings - everything about EVERYONE in concentration camps were highly detailed and files were made about every single one.

So... can I see the 6 million files please? Even if they're fake...

Now for the "survivors"... look, the only reason there are "holocaust survivors from the death camps" is because nazis wanted them to "survive"... if there was really a mass killing there wouldnt be any jew here to complain, and as you might think logical, from 33 to 45 its like 12 years they had to ensure "no survivors from any camp".

So... all this "6 million death toll" was taken by the media without any question or scrutiny and basically it turned out to be something so untouchable that the very questions about it could get you in serious trouble, and basically puts the rest of your life at stake for asking too much.

There are ppl in history who killed far more ppl than Hitler or the third reich, see Mao or stalin for instance... they simply dwarf the Third Reich's numbers still theres no "holocaust" nor this almost "supernatural evil" we see and feel when the word "nazi" is spoken.

Will all this I dont intend to get the blame off of them, just to get the facts right... it was bad, it was awful, terrible things were done and nothing cant take the blame off from those facts but... why do you need to come up with a ridiculous random number like 6 million out of nowhere with no proof what so ever to substantiate those claims?

EDIT: to put it clear... again yes there was mass killing but not has we're told. Its like that famous quote "Its life Jim, but not as we know it"

[edit on 9-1-2009 by MilitieTempliSalmo]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by MilitieTempliSalmo
 


Hey how about you stop repeating yourself and challenge someone to a debate. Everything is open for discussion so there is nothing holding you back.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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hasnt this topic been discussed alot of times already? i believe this is highly redundant lol


and to the OP

That is very unfair of you to make the topic so freaking sensationalist just to get attention.

Whats up with that? I Find it very cheap and I think you should have to take "NOT" out of it.

This is akin to a thread like "Jesus Killed people!!!"

then saying "I dont think jesus killed anyone, but some other guy did, and hes wrong"

Very cheap sensationalist tactics.
two thumbs down


and i consider it "BAITING" in the highest form ,
shame !!!

[edit on 9-1-2009 by muzzleflash]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 07:28 PM
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I will try to explain as best I can.

I am relatively new to this board, and became caught up in a few threads about 9-11.

I responded and arrived on Church street when the South Tower fell. The details of reality will never escape me. I was part of that day, and it will always be a part of me.

Many proclaim 9-11 did not happen. Many claim explosive charges were set to knock the buildings down. Missiles were used and no planes were involved and those passengers are still alive. The U.S. Government planned the entire thing and F.D.N.Y. assisted by allowing people to die.

I tried to explain to these people first hand facts and reality . . . they refused to think otherwise and stuck to their imagination.
So be it.

Now let's rewind to the 1940's.
Here is an example:
Japan performed many acts of atrocities . . . many people deny it to this day.
www.vspa.com...

All those involved in War against mankind commit some form of atrocity.
People probably began to deny reality and debate“The numbers” days after the crime. As a race, we tend to forget history and then repeat it. We tend to skew the truth to fit our individual righteous beliefs.

The more things change . . . the more they stay the same.

Did millions of people die during “The Great War” . . . Yes.
Is it intelligent to debate “I don't think six million Jews were killed. More like five maybe.” . . .
. . . I think not.
You want to debate numbers? I say: “How can you?!”

Were millions exterminated, Raped then murdered, starved to death, experimented on, blown to bits, committed various acts of suicide, forced to work to death, succumbed to diseases or just plain died inside . . . no-longer to be the person that once lived because your loved ones were taken away to be incinerated..

You want to argue it actually happened? I say: “Are you insane?”

Ethnic cleansing did just not happen in the 1930's. As a race, we always did it, are doing it, and seem to be stupid enough to continue doing it until, as a race of people, blow like a old steam boiler.

Anyone who argues: “The Holocaust did happen!” or, “It did NOT happen! . . . are only arguing with similar minds.
Both persons in that debate are the cause of the above problems.

The correct question is . . . and always has been: “How do we stop it from happening again?”

Peace.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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Some of you should reflect on the fact that holocaust denial is a criminal offence in many European countries. And even in those countries where it isn't an offence, your ISP would consider it behaviour so outrageous as to merit disconnection altogether.

Free speech has its limits.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 07:52 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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Mao, Stalin, and the Japs (killed 40 mil from 1900-1950)


But yeh, if you have families members that experiences it, then you know it was real.

6 million isn't really a hard number to believe anyways.

[edit on 1/9/2009 by die_another_day]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by OhZone
Not too long ago there was no such thing as calling someone "racist".
I have understood the use of this term today as making a false statement about someone of another race.
However, the way it works is that anyone making any statement about another race is now called a "racist".
Somewhere along the line reason has been lost. It has become taboo to say anything about any race, even your own.



You generalised a group of multiple millions with a lazy and offensive stereotype, ie Jews are liars.

If the thought of someone else labelling you as racist confuses you, maybe you ought to try getting your head around something more simplistic than this debate.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Kr0n0s

However, by that time the nazis were supposedly killing even more indiscriminately because they had nothing to lose, so why wasnt she "exterminated immediately"


Simply because victims of the camps were made to give all they had to offer before they were thought of as worthless and killed. A young, healthy girl earns her days by working. If she was older or even a bit younger, there is every chance she would have been killed immediately.


EDIT: See this quote from Anne's Wiki page...


"Of the 1,019 passengers, 549—including all children younger than fifteen—were sent directly to the gas chambers. Anne had turned fifteen three months earlier and was one of the youngest people to be spared from her transport. She was soon made aware that most people were gassed upon arrival, and never learned that the entire group from the Achterhuis had survived this selection. She reasoned that her father, in his mid-fifties and not particularly robust, had been killed immediately after they were separated.[36]

With the other females not selected for immediate death, Anne was forced to strip naked to be disinfected, had her head shaved and was tattooed with an identifying number on her arm. By day, the women were used as slave labor and Anne was forced to haul rocks and dig rolls of sod; by night, they were crammed into overcrowded barracks."

wapedia.mobi...


*SNIP*

Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 9/1/2009 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by Niall197
Some of you should reflect on the fact that holocaust denial is a criminal offence in many European countries. And even in those countries where it isn't an offence, your ISP would consider it behaviour so outrageous as to merit disconnection altogether.

Free speech has its limits.


November 2005:
David Irving, the controversial British historian, has been arrested in Austria on suspicion of giving speeches in which he allegedly denied the existence of the gas chambers in the Nazi death camps.

February 2007:
Ernst Zundel sentenced to 5 years for Holocaust denial.
A German court on Thursday convicted Ernst Zundel of 14 counts of incitement of racial hatred and sentenced him to five years in prison, the maximum allowed under German law for denying the Holocaust.

April 2007:
Laws that make denying or trivialising the Holocaust a criminal offence punishable by jail sentences will be introduced across the European Union under a proposal expected to win backing from ministers tomorrow.
The proposed legislation will also apply to inciting violence against ethnic, religious or national groups with offenders facing up to three years in jail.

To answer a recent post
If I were an Admin here, I would have locked the thread.
I can understand debating Bigfoot, UFO's or Government plots but . . .
This topic is not for cheap entertainment . . . and it should not be up for debate any longer.


Originally posted by MilitieTempliSalmo
6 million is ridiculous... stop with that false claim for once!

Now... Can I see the reports and the files on all 6 million people that died please? Or even a wall with the 6 million names written there like a monument to the victims of the holocaust (like the us have those walls full of names of every war)

Dental records would be too much to ask right?


Millions died and people want dental records for each one of them as proof.
You going to "Debate" people that have minds such as that?
If you do . . .
Re-read my post or . . . "Good luck" to you.
You're going to need it.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


You write very well for someone who is only 18 years of age.

Unusually well.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 


The reason the Jewish holocaust is the one people focus on is simple. The level of cruelty the Jews were faced with en mass before their respective deaths. The length of time in which they were held in subhuman conditions, and that fact that this was all being done at the whim of the most evil man in modern history.

Yes others were killed besides the Jews, most everyone here has acknowledged that. However, the attempted removal of an entire race of people is unacceptable. No matter who is perpetrating it. This just happens to be the first instance in modern times when people were absolutely horrified by how dark a human soul can get, and how many people Hitler slaughtered for the hell of it. To him the "Jewish Problem" was very real, and despite your seemingly logical assumptions, if you truly doubt that Hitler was incapable of such horrors, you sir are wrong.

The problem isn't that this holocaust is remembered, the problem it isn't talked about enough. We as a people have become so complacent and apathetic about the issue, because in 2009 it was a long time ago. We've become so complacent that some how people don't even want to believe it happened. I'm a skeptic by nature but even skepticism has a lines you should not cross. If everyone would take a minute to actually wrap their minds around the fact that this happened, and understand the gravity of it, people would be more apt to be concerned with and do something about the brutality that is going on today and in the recent past.

Any time there is genocide anywhere/when something should be done about it, it should be remembered and learned from so that maybe it won't happen again. History repeats itself you know. If you truly, truly believe that this is some overblown hoax, and that the ovens, "showers", and other instruments of death are only there as propaganda tourist spots you have completed overlooked one of the most horrifying yet important periods of the twentieth century. Even if you think it is just a story, you have missed the moral and importance of this story.


This is my final post in this thread. May all of you be well.



[edit on 9-1-2009 by Osiris1953]





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