Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

the Holocaust did NOT happen

page: 5
23
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join

posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 08:38 AM
link   
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by Kr0n0s
 


Enlighten me as to why thats insulting to you?

I'm curious. There's two parts of my statement there.

Racism is racism. Its abhorrent and uncalled for.

But ignorance.....can ignorance not be remedied through education?

I've seen many posts on ATS where people say things because its what they think they know, rather than the actual fact. Thats ignorance.

We're all about denying ignorance here. Its what we do, right? If I can help someones education I'm all for that.

So...you took offence...why exactly?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by neformore

But ignorance.....can ignorance not be remedied through education?

I've seen many posts on ATS where people say things because its what they think they know, rather than the actual fact. Thats ignorance.



Very well put, but on this topic you have at times demonstrated some ignorance of your own, or rather your perspective could do with a little up dating shall we say. History is not set in stone and it does need to be revised from time to time. The denialist movement works in a number of ways and one of those ways is to deflect us from the truth by keeping the debate divisive. To anyone with an ounce of education the extreme end of the revisionist movement is ludicrous, and that is just the point, it wouldn't get our goats up quite so much if it wasn't. They want us to bite, it's no fun otherwise.

As I have previously mentioned on this thread, to little avail, I have compiled some of the most up to date research carried out on the holocaust and brought it together for the benefit of the general membership. You may find it interesting, it is perhaps a little too involved for some, but I am sure that you can manage it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Discussing the numbers is futile, and they don't matter, what difference does it make how many suffered, people, individuals, families and especially children suffered. Wasting time discussing these trivialities only serves further to detract from the real issues involved.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:06 AM
link   
reply to post by neformore
 





I've seen many posts on ATS where people say things because its what they think they know, rather than the actual fact. Thats ignorance. We're all about denying ignorance here. Its what we do, right? If I can help someones education I'm all for that.


So, youre going to show me the light? Im a slow learner can I get some face/face tutoring?


I never said you insulted or offended me, youre making assumptions again. I dont get offended easily, I take things in stride

What I said was that you were making generalized insults, specifically aimed at people that have opinions that differ from yours.
You said you didnt, and I showed you where you did.
Now youre going to want to open a debate about whether that statement is insulting or not?

I dont think so.
Ill put it this way, "facts" regardless of the source are even open to interpretation.
Two people can read the same statement and could very well get two different ideas about what that statement said and im very headstrong, so no amount of debate on any particular topic is going to sway me from my interpretation of those "facts"
Have a good day though, hope you find someone to play your game with.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:16 AM
link   
Of course it happened.

Have the facts and numbers been manipulated for political purposes? Probably, since the victors always write the history of any war.

It seems that Hitler had some interesting partners in crime as well.

www.dailystar.com.lb...



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:22 AM
link   
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


I'll have a read of it.


Suprised I missed it first time round. So many topics, so little time.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jewcano

Why would any Jews die from a lack of sanitation or supplies? Did they always live in camps? Did they congregate hundreds if not thousands of miles from their original homes by choice? Did they cross borders of their own volition? Why would a doctor, or a shop owner or a teacher leave the comfort of their home and reside in such heinous conditions.


That's rubbish
Don't stick only in 6 millions jews who died in camps. How about 11.590.000 people that died in the Concentration Camps in total? Were they any less better then the children of Abraham? Come on, enough with this cry for over 60 years. Why always is this tendency of attacking everyone who comes with some doubts about the number? As far as I understood holocaust is not being denied but the 6 million figure is being disputed as to exaggerated. I too personally don't believe that nazis killed 6 million jews. However I'm a firm believer that it did happen. But not only to jews though. As a child I had a friend whose grandfather was a prisoner in Mauthausen camp and often we would sit down with him and ask to tell us stories about the concentration camps and the atrocities. It was the same for all prisoners. No special treatment reserved only for jews. What really upsets me is not the reaction of some people here who might be jews in their heritage. Is the hypocrisy of all these people who 'fight' for the 6 million to be accepted and at the same time are ok with the fact that the very same criminals (or at least few of them) who committed and were part of holocaust, came in the land of democracy and freedom as Paper Clip contingency. How many of them were die hard SS? How many of them had their hand stirred in blood up to their elbows? What about Josef Mengele with his 'excellent' resume in Birkenau Camp and other animals like him?

Everybody has the right to question an information. The funny thing is that we comply with the main motto in this forum which is to Deny Ignorance and we selfs are the first to show the dumbest ignorance ever. Do I question the 6 million figure? YES !!! Do I have the right to do that without being called a denier, a Nazi, a racist. a antijew, antisemitic...blah blah blah? YES and YES again. We fight not to be called and act like sheep but when it comes to the ideology we've been instructed with since day one we're born and raise questions that logically don't fit with our efforts to be open minded, then upon 'us' is being applied a rude and harsh behavior which tents to wipe out all opposition to the subject. This is called double standard and No, I'm not ok with it. I consider my self an educated man and I will never stop to question everything that doesn't fit with my understanding, education and free spirit. It doesn't make me less human, less sensitive and less tender. It only makes me an individual mind.

In accordance with what I've said: I do accept the mass murder of jews during the WWII. I do believe that it was an extermination of jews, maybe not planed but still an act that did happen. I do strongly believe that a lot of people suffered in those death camps and just few made it alive to tell us those macabre stories. But according to what I've read, study, researched and seen, I don't believe jews were the only victims and I don't believe the 6 million number. That's all.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Telos]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 09:56 AM
link   
I can only come up with a few as to why it would NOT of happened. I'm not saying it didn't, but I try to see both sides, so I can understand why, as humans, we either would do it, or would lie about it. Either one makes no sense.

Anyway...

Starting in the late 1800's a push was being forged for the creation of an Israeli state, which subsequently was accomplished due to the sympathy generated from the Holocaust in 1948.

Hitler himself was Jewish being born of a Jewish woman, maybe that's why he killed himself. Reminds me of "Clayton Bigsby" from the Dave Chapelle show, the black KKK guy. Kind of weird that someone who himself was Jewish, would want to kill his own, but then again biblically speaking they don't really seam to care for their own....Herod ordered all of the Jewish children to be killed under 2 years old, being afraid he would loose his power.
I'm not saying that of Jewish people, just biblical stories.

also perhaps...

God was punishing them. It wouldn't be the first time that they were killed in large numbers by the allowance of God. Moses was ordered to slay all of the men and male children in the camp of the Israelites after they worshiped the golden calf. God also opened the ground and sucked a bunch of them in after murmuring against god. None of the generation that entered the desert from Egypt were allowed into the promised land. That's a lot of people. They had millions in their camps.

Anyway...those are a couple

Peace



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 10:20 AM
link   
For those of you who have thanked me for my post, both private and public, I really do have to thank you. I was kind of afraid to do it, but I'm glad I did because it seems like the people who really matter have taken note.

It also seems like the deniers did not read it. This surprises me. Maybe they just don't have anything to say? Has ignorance been denied? Apparently not, but... it is interesting that people have posted AFTER my post saying that the Holocaust is questionable.

Regardless, if anybody has any questions feel free to post/message them. Neformore made a good point that only the Jews get questioned within the people who suffered throughout the Holocaust. It also seems like more people tend to believe the actual number was less than 6 million. The way I learned it was 6 million Jews plus millions of others. How many human lives is that, anyway?

Bl0rg, people DO care about the Polish citizens who perished in the Holocaust! I do! I'm sure many other people do!!

Again- The Jews had nowhere to go directly after the war and many countries would not accept them. Where do you suppose they went? They could NOT go back to their countries of origin.

Also, many leaders of the countries that were attacked during WWII were NOT Jewish.

Where did some of you learn all of this? Comic books?

I'm not calling anybody racist here, and since I am actually part of the race being targeted, it seems like somebody is making up an argument just to make themselves look correct when they know they are not.

Candyfloss had a really good post too on page 4. Starred. The attack at the Jews was more direct and clear than any other. Rather than "not fitting in with the Aryan ideal" they just hated the Jews. Even the blond haired, blue eyed, Danish Jews.

Kr0n0s, the Jews DO marry outside of their circle. I don't plan to marry a Jew. None of my uncles or aunts did. Plus, if they wanted to, why not? Christians will marry only other Christians sometimes, too. You should also spell correctly if you want to look informed, for one.

I don't know if parents teach their children this or what but to me, and to most people, the Holocaust is pretty much clear fact. It's undeniable. Media from many countries reported on it exactly when it happened. Your own troops not only "believed" in the Holocaust, but helped stop it. Are you doubting your country? Half the world?

If your parents taught you this, it's fine, because some parents also don't let their kids watch Harry Potter or read certain books or eat ham or play video games. But if this is really you talking, and if you did enough resource from sources that are worth more than tabloids, you should know better.

Telos- nobody denies that other people died in the Holocaust besides Jews. Everybody knows that. It's no better than what happened to the Jews. It's just as horrible.

As I am an atheist, God wasn't punishing anyone. Unless he was working through the Nazis. Which makes the Nazis kind of like Jesus, right?

Kr0n0s, did you even read the post about my family? Really, I'd be thrilled if you commented. Or maybe you just don't want to face the facts.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 11:04 AM
link   
reply to post by ravenshadow13
 



Good for you love,you kept your counsel well inspite of infuriating circumstances.Always remember that there are many of us who sympathise and understand and will always support people like yourself.The Holocaust should never and will never be forgotten.I think what some of us older members don't realise is that perhaps with the passage of time the impact of the Holocaust has been lessened a little and what with total idiots like people who post on Stormfront etc writing their BS it twists slightly what we always took for granted would be a known and undisputed truth.But take heart Ravenshadow in the fact you've got friends here..best wishes to you Candy



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 11:08 AM
link   
reply to post by Telos
 




www.writing.upenn.edu...

Re-extermination of Jews 'not planned'-that it is why this whole issue is so morally repugnant -it was planned at Wansee,please read above transcript for details..



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 11:18 AM
link   
reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


What do you think Nazi means? It even comes from Hebrew.


Nassi is a Hebrew term meaning "Prince roughly". In Antiquity, it was the title given to the leader of Sanhédrin. This title was created into when Sanhédrin lost confidence in the capacity of the priests of high row to be used as leaders. In Antiquity, 13 Adar was always announced by Nassi. Certain important Jewish personalities carried this title, for example Rabbi Yehouda HaNassi. In the modern use, Nassi also means "President". It is the term used in modern Hebrew to appoint any Head of democratically elected State.


That's a little odd no?

[edit on 9-1-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 11:19 AM
link   
reply to post by OhZone
 


From where they did get the resources?From Mama America for example!



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 11:25 AM
link   
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


What?


Nazi Look up Nazi at Dictionary.com 1930, from Ger. Nazi, abbreviation of Ger. pronunciation of Nationalsozialist (based on earlier Ger. sozi, popular abbreviaton of "socialist"), from Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei "National Socialist German Workers' Party," led by Hitler from 1920. The 24th edition of Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache (2002) says the word Nazi was favored in southern Germany (supposedly from c.1924) among opponents of National Socialism because the nickname Nazi (from the masc. proper name Ignatz, Ger. form of Ignatius) was used colloquially to mean "a foolish person, clumsy or awkward person." Ignatz was a popular name in Catholic Austria, and according to one source in WWI Nazi was a generic name in the German Empire for the soldiers of Austria-Hungary. An older use of Nazi for national-sozial is attested in Ger. from 1903, but EWdS does not think it contributed to the word as applied to Hitler and his followers. The NSDAP for a time attempted to adopt the Nazi designation as what the Germans call a "despite-word," but they gave this up, and the NSDAP is said to have generally avoided the term. Before 1930, party members had been called in Eng. National Socialists, which dates from 1923. The use of Nazi Germany, Nazi regime, etc., was popularized by German exiles abroad. From them, it spread into other languages, and eventually brought back to Germany, after the war. In the USSR, the terms national socialist and Nazi were said to have been forbidden after 1932, presumably to avoid any taint to the good word socialist. Soviet literature refers to fascists.



Source



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 11:29 AM
link   
Can anyone find a thread on ATS where someone has actually denied the holocaust? Like, where they say 'it never happened'? I'm struggling to find an example of this on the board.

Not saying it hasn't happened. I just can't see where it has and we're talking a lot about 'holocaust deniers' here.



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 11:39 AM
link   
reply to post by OhZone
 


Why is it no one mentions the 20 million uncle joe killed????



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 11:46 AM
link   
reply to post by Telos
 




Everybody has the right to question an information. The funny thing is that we comply with the main motto in this forum which is to Deny Ignorance and we selfs are the first to show the dumbest ignorance ever. Do I question the 6 million figure? YES !!! Do I have the right to do that without being called a denier, a Nazi, a racist. a antijew, antisemitic...blah blah blah? YES and YES again.


Thats a good point, this is a conspiracy site and the very basis of that idea is to take closer looks at official stories both in the present and in the past to see if there are any inconsistencies in the stories or to find possible reasons why something would be orchestrated and who would benefit from a staged event, like people theorize about 9/11

It seems like that for every incident thats ever happened, there will always be someone that believes it happened differently or didnt happen at all and for the most part that isnt a problem.

Never have I seen topic or event that stirs so much emotion than Hitler and the concentration camps does.
From a conspiracy standpoint people want this topic off-limits or at the very least, handled with silk, fur lined gloves.
Anyone that dares interpret the historical records differently than the mainstream norm, risk being called a racist, a nazi or any number of other buzz words to try and immediately discredit them.
Hell there are people on this board that are even prevented from discussing this topic in a certain way, due to the laws of the country they may live in.
To have a differing opinion on the holocaust or to interpret the evidence differently than others or to even argue the 6 million number is to high does not make that person a racist.

Why is saying this acceptable. "Theres no way in hell 1 million Rwandans died over the last 20 years , id put the number closer to, say 600k."
And saying this is not. "The number of jews killed during WW2 is said to be about 6 million, that number seems a bit inflated and I would put the numbers closer to 2.5 to 3 million" (These were just examples)
Here at ATS, some would label that comment as racist, however, in some European countries, that comment is illegal and could land you in prison.

If the US passed a law that made it illegal to question the 9/11 commissions official ruling and also made it a crime to say, i believe that 1900 people died, instead of the official 2990, people would be literally up in arms.
To me, there should be no difference, whether its questioning 9/11 or questioning Nazi Atrocities during WW2, its our right to ask questions, its our right to be skeptical.
When they try to FORCE a person to have a certain opinion, theyre just complicating the issue even more.





[edit on 1/9/2009 by Kr0n0s]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 12:03 PM
link   
reply to post by Kr0n0s
 



Why is saying this acceptable. "Theres no way in hell 1 million Rwandans died over the last 20 years , id put the number closer to, say 600k."
And saying this is not. "The number of jews killed during WW2 is said to be about 6 million, that number seems a bit inflated and I would put the numbers closer to 2.5 to 3 million" (These were just examples)
Here at ATS, some would label that comment as racist, however, in some European countries, that comment is illegal and could land you in prison.


Perhaps it's just me, but there is a difference between questioning whether the number killed is accurate and someone questioning whether the Holocaust actually happened.

reply to post by Nammu
 


I would like to give you a direct link to the post where it was stated that someone doesn't believe the Holocaust actually happened, but sadly the post was deleted by the mods. You can find the thread here though, and it does still contain a few quotes and references to it being posted.

Edit: Fixed link

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Jenna]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 12:05 PM
link   
reply to post by ravenshadow13
 




Kr0n0s, did you even read the post about my family? Really, I'd be thrilled if you commented. Or maybe you just don't want to face the facts.


ravenshadow13
No, i didnt read it sorry.. Maybe ill go back and check it out, ive been really busy today and just popping in and out.

Oh also, would you like to show me some examples of my horrible spelling and grammar?
Really though, its kind of tiring when i see people point out minor grammatical errors in a post but if I made a post where the grammar was so bad that you couldnt understand it, then please point it out to me so I can translate for you.
I type very fast and sometimes my fingers get ahead of my brain

other times though, im just to lazy to punctuate properly or backspace to edit typos.

Do you even read my posts too?
You seem to be assuming that im a "denier" and if thats the case then you really havent read all of them because thats just not the case.
I have never said that I didnt believe that holocaust happened, ive never said it aloud and ive never said it here either.
You guys
so quick with your labels..




You should also spell correctly if you want to look informed, for one.


Also, please, for the sake of all the other readers here as well, show me the posts that contain the huge spelling mistakes, I need to fix them so others cant try and use that to discredit me like you did






Perhaps it's just me, but there is a difference between questioning whether the number killed is accurate and someone questioning whether the Holocaust actually happened.


That is exactly right Jenna but there are some countries whos laws disagree.

Aside from that though, you made my point for me..
I have never questioned whether the holocaust happened or not, people are just making assumptions.
What I questioned is people believing EVERYTHING thats said about it and not being allowed even a chance to discuss it without people calling that person a racist or denier.



[edit on 1/9/2009 by Kr0n0s]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 12:11 PM
link   
reply to post by blupblup
 


Your telling me that they would choose a word that meant "a foolish person, clumsy or awkward person" to be known as over "prince"?

Don't you think that if that got around, that the other kids would make fun of them?

Usually people want to be called strong names not "clumsy".

I believe, and I will have to find the source, that Hitler even refered to the Sanhedrin as his counsel.

Anyway...Peace



[edit on 9-1-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



posted on Jan, 9 2009 @ 12:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nammu
Can anyone find a thread on ATS where someone has actually denied the holocaust? Like, where they say 'it never happened'? I'm struggling to find an example of this on the board.

Not saying it hasn't happened. I just can't see where it has and we're talking a lot about 'holocaust deniers' here.


There are a number of members denying the motives behind it, the number of people killed, and severity.

That is bad enough





new topics

top topics



 
23
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join