the Holocaust did NOT happen

Being as my grandparents left Germany in the middle of the night to secretly board a ship to Shanghai to evade collection and death in one of the camps. I don't think there is any room for debate on whether it happened or not.

I have many family members who were lost during those hellish times, anyone that denies such a factual history of the world are either just plain haters or just dimwitted. I'll let them decide which one they are for themselves.

I've read about 12 pages of this thread, and I just couldn't keep going without replying. I'm seriously going to puke if I read someone else saying Hitler was Jewish, or a Rothschild. Anyone who believes this, go read a book.

How can you reasonably discuss any topic when every second post is based on myth.

Anyways go read a book. I recommend Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer. It's thick but don't be scared. Knowledge doesn't hurt.

Also, try a Hitler biography. I prefer the one by John Toland, who sticks to the FACTS.

The thread linked to earlier by Kilgore Trout is a good one. Go check it out and comment. But, please no "Hitler is Jewish" nonsense.

I won't even ask where you got your education.

Despite the German attempts to destroy indictable war crime documentation as WWII ended, despite the embarrassed silence of millions throughout Eastern Europe, and despite attempts by anti-Semites worldwide to minimize or dismiss the Holocaust as a Jewish exaggeration or fabrication - it happened and there is no possible question of it or it's scale.

More and more is being unearthed, literally, every year. Red Cross and Russian archives, closed to the public for decades, new mass grave sites, and many underutilized sources have become increasingly available to historians.

Anyone traveling anywhere from Germany outward to countries like Poland, the Ukraine, Slovakia, Hungary, etc can talk to people in towns where they either witnessed or were told by relatives of mass murders by organized town mobs given bullets by the Nazis with instructions to use one each to put to the head of every Jew in the vicinity.

Open bonfires of Jewish corpses and huge mass graves were monthly occurrences. The evidence is still being dug up by researchers.

I studied Russian in University, and have spoken with dozens of these people
when a mutual language exchange was possible. The shame has cast a pall on Eastern Europe for well over half a century. A collective hatred where ordinary farmers and townspeople participated in collective lynch mob responsible for an estimated murder of maybe a million Jewish fellow citizens.

The fact that such a disgraceful revisionist history as Holocaust Denial can be accepted by so many now, particularly ones claiming advanced education, forebodes poorly for our culture.


Mike

Why is it that if someone questions the actuality of the Holocaust they are branded as a anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi


even as many repliers to this thread have stated many evidential factual arguments to the actuality behind the Holocaust they will always be wrong because they will be called racist.
Truth has no race and is in no way racist.

And most of the posters of ATS all go on and on about how the gov't lies and manipulated history, and yet you cant believe that they could do it this time.

reply to post by sensfan

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I can say honestly, I wouldn't be an American if it weren't for the Holocaust. In fact, I probably would never have been born. My great grandparents fled here just before Hitler invaded, and some of our family refused to leave and were never heard from again.

I would encourage anyone who doesn't believe, to go to Russia and visit the old Jews living in poverty, still displaced from the war. Their stories will tear your heart out, and even at their age, they still cry talking about how as children, they witnessed their entire families executed in front of them.

Just the amount of bitterness still present in some (not all) Jewish communities, should be enough to tell those who don't believe, that something horrid happened on a massive scale. I've met quite a few of them personally. The United States owes much of it's Jewish, Russian and Polish population to the Holocaust, and if you've ever lived in Florida where there's a large Jewish community, you would know what I'm talking about. The older Jews are still extremely protective of their own and shut off from non-Jews because of the Holocaust. I've also witnessed and experienced this for myself on several occassions.

You all may be interested in this...

www.adelaideinstitute.org...


it's the end of free speech in Australia.

reply to post by OhZone

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I can't believe I'm reading this? Are you serious? I guess the question is: Do you really think that the Nazi's didn't kill millions of Jews on purpose? Do you believe that there were no concentration camps? Do you believe that there were no ovens for people or gas chambers? Or are you just arguing the ammount of people that actually died?

reply to post by dreaken1993

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Not everyone is labled as such for the mere act of questioning the numbers... There are many researchers who make their academic careers by researching that very thing. What gets some labled, correctly I might add, is the reason behind the questioning of the numbers.

"The evil Jews made up the numbers of killed, most of the supposed killed are living in Brooklyn" That's a denier, and should be labled as such...

"The numbers of killed may be wrong because this number got added to the total by mistake in 1950, and wasn't caught 'til now." That's legitimate research, and should be labled as such.

Ask yourself, why are you questioning the numbers?

Holocaust denial is, most unfortunately, a real growth industry these days...It started shortly, within months, after the fall of Hitler's thousand year Reich, and continues on today, as an attempt to rehabilitate Hitler. Most of the blame was layed on his henchmen/cronies. Since then it's transformed itself into virulent hatred of Jews, and not coincidently, Israel. Though the rehabilitation aspect is still somewhat in evidence.

Again, ask yourself this, what's your reason for questioning?

It did happen

2nd line

thats the only thing no one is denying the holocaust just the actuality behind it, and to all the people that say if you need to see proof jsut got to a holocaust death camp memory places like the one at Auschwitz, only thing is the chambers were improved and replecated by the aliies mainly rusiia and france troops so thats out of there, and to go talk to the survivors, now there stories may be true but usually arent evidence that the gas chambers were really for the extermination of people, and to go ask people who had to move from their homes that dosent have nothing to do with the actuality with the gas chambers or actual numbers of dead

either way there are many things that dont add up and thats just it no one is denying it or anything like that

the only thing i know is zionist backed the holocaust to gain isreal and power to call anyone who questions their acts as anti-Semitic

jews werent the only ones who died in the holocaust, serbs, slavs, roma, christians, and anyone non Aryan

reply to post by dreaken1993

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Unfortunately, there are many deniers who do precisely that...not all of them, just the more rabid amongst them. There is a book, it's an older one, but still relevant to this conversation; it's called Denying the Holocaust: The growing assault on Truth and Memory. It was written by Deborah Lipstadt. In it she discusses the phenomanon of Holocaust denial. It'll give you a very good overview, and an insight into these people. I urge you, and others to read it. As I said, it's a bit dated, 1994 is when it came out; but no less relevant for that. I'm sure Amazon has it...

[edit on 5/8/2009 by seagull]

but i havent seen anyone denying its happening on here so the argument is irrelevant

So you don't give a crap who reported the events? Both LARGE NUMBERS of US and USSR troops were witness. So was general Eisenhower. I don't know if I must be angry or just pity you.

what the hell are you talking about thats the problems with talking about such a touchy subject the inner bitch comes out in all of you, it is a discussion. not a talk about how we dont care that millions of people, not just jews, died, it is a discussion about how we think the thing might have went down. theres no way for us to truely know what happened there. truely. history is never accurate.

People get touchy on Holocaust Denial because the raising of the question is something created and promoted by outright Jew haters for the purpose of generating more hatred.

Yes gypsies, communists, political dissidents were also murdered. Their total is a fraction of the millions in the systematic genocide of Jews in Europe. 90% of them in Poland, Germany, Austria, and neighbouring Eastern European nations. All civilians, women and children alike.

As documented and verifiable as anything that has ever happened.

And yet there are still people so sick, they derive satisfaction in trying to disprove it.

What does that tell us about these people?


Mike

They don't trust anyone.

That's a start.

No, they give their trust to anyone that tells them something they want hear.

It's called stupidity. It's contagious.



M

Post examples of this.

You must have plenty.

You are the best example I can think of.

Say, do you know what trolling is?

Want an example?


M

reply to post by mmiichael

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No,

I want you to back up the claim you just made with some corroborative evidence.

Should that evidence exist in abundance; you should have no difficulty in locating, citing and posting it here to substantiate your claim.

On ATS we have a higher standards than most sites, I'm sure you know that by now.

If you don't post corroboration in your reply to this post then I will assume you don't have any, and are here to issue provocations to the members.


[edit on 12-5-2009 by Exuberant1]