Being as my grandparents left Germany in the middle of the night to secretly board a ship to Shanghai to evade collection and death in one of the camps. I don't think there is any room for debate on whether it happened or not.

I have many family members who were lost during those hellish times, anyone that denies such a factual history of the world are either just plain haters or just dimwitted. I'll let them decide which one they are for themselves.

I've read about 12 pages of this thread, and I just couldn't keep going without replying. I'm seriously going to puke if I read someone else saying Hitler was Jewish, or a Rothschild. Anyone who believes this, go read a book.

How can you reasonably discuss any topic when every second post is based on myth.

Anyways go read a book. I recommend Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer. It's thick but don't be scared. Knowledge doesn't hurt.

Also, try a Hitler biography. I prefer the one by John Toland, who sticks to the FACTS.

The thread linked to earlier by Kilgore Trout is a good one. Go check it out and comment. But, please no "Hitler is Jewish" nonsense.

Originally posted by Mulberry
I did history at university and we as historians were not allowed to question if it happen at all, pretty amazing if the main methodology of historical research is to ask the question why and when and if. People were frightened and most where bending over backwards to prove how they believed in it


I have a reading list for my holocaust course most if all were either Jewish or pro Jewish, hardly objective is it, no debate all closed down.


However the killer is this, the evidence for the holocuast is so minute, in that it comes from thousands of different sources where one has to speak and read a mired of languages, from Russian to Serbo Croat etc, it means that all the holocaust research is open to massive interpretation because of the disparate nature of the so called evidence, there is no definitive proof in a single sense that it actually happened, but holocaust historians get their view from all these disparate sources, thats why they never play the number game because there is lot of holes in this, thats why they want to make it a crime to deny the holocaust, because it is so easy to disprove in a free historical research without political or social interference . This is from the words of my course tutor and there was shock and silence in the room. I knew this of course, i was questioning as a historian, i was not prepared to accept spoon fed what some idiot told me..

I won't even ask where you got your education.

Despite the German attempts to destroy indictable war crime documentation as WWII ended, despite the embarrassed silence of millions throughout Eastern Europe, and despite attempts by anti-Semites worldwide to minimize or dismiss the Holocaust as a Jewish exaggeration or fabrication - it happened and there is no possible question of it or it's scale.

More and more is being unearthed, literally, every year. Red Cross and Russian archives, closed to the public for decades, new mass grave sites, and many underutilized sources have become increasingly available to historians.

Anyone traveling anywhere from Germany outward to countries like Poland, the Ukraine, Slovakia, Hungary, etc can talk to people in towns where they either witnessed or were told by relatives of mass murders by organized town mobs given bullets by the Nazis with instructions to use one each to put to the head of every Jew in the vicinity.

Open bonfires of Jewish corpses and huge mass graves were monthly occurrences. The evidence is still being dug up by researchers.

I studied Russian in University, and have spoken with dozens of these people
when a mutual language exchange was possible. The shame has cast a pall on Eastern Europe for well over half a century. A collective hatred where ordinary farmers and townspeople participated in collective lynch mob responsible for an estimated murder of maybe a million Jewish fellow citizens.

The fact that such a disgraceful revisionist history as Holocaust Denial can be accepted by so many now, particularly ones claiming advanced education, forebodes poorly for our culture.


Mike

Why is it that if someone questions the actuality of the Holocaust they are branded as a anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi


even as many repliers to this thread have stated many evidential factual arguments to the actuality behind the Holocaust they will always be wrong because they will be called racist.
Truth has no race and is in no way racist.

And most of the posters of ATS all go on and on about how the gov't lies and manipulated history, and yet you cant believe that they could do it this time.

It did happen

2nd line

thats the only thing no one is denying the holocaust just the actuality behind it, and to all the people that say if you need to see proof jsut got to a holocaust death camp memory places like the one at Auschwitz, only thing is the chambers were improved and replecated by the aliies mainly rusiia and france troops so thats out of there, and to go talk to the survivors, now there stories may be true but usually arent evidence that the gas chambers were really for the extermination of people, and to go ask people who had to move from their homes that dosent have nothing to do with the actuality with the gas chambers or actual numbers of dead

either way there are many things that dont add up and thats just it no one is denying it or anything like that

the only thing i know is zionist backed the holocaust to gain isreal and power to call anyone who questions their acts as anti-Semitic

jews werent the only ones who died in the holocaust, serbs, slavs, roma, christians, and anyone non Aryan

but i havent seen anyone denying its happening on here so the argument is irrelevant

So you don't give a crap who reported the events? Both LARGE NUMBERS of US and USSR troops were witness. So was general Eisenhower. I don't know if I must be angry or just pity you.

what the hell are you talking about thats the problems with talking about such a touchy subject the inner bitch comes out in all of you, it is a discussion. not a talk about how we dont care that millions of people, not just jews, died, it is a discussion about how we think the thing might have went down. theres no way for us to truely know what happened there. truely. history is never accurate.

People get touchy on Holocaust Denial because the raising of the question is something created and promoted by outright Jew haters for the purpose of generating more hatred.

Yes gypsies, communists, political dissidents were also murdered. Their total is a fraction of the millions in the systematic genocide of Jews in Europe. 90% of them in Poland, Germany, Austria, and neighbouring Eastern European nations. All civilians, women and children alike.

As documented and verifiable as anything that has ever happened.

And yet there are still people so sick, they derive satisfaction in trying to disprove it.

What does that tell us about these people?


Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael


What does that tell us about these people?

They don't trust anyone.

That's a start.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by mmiichael


What does that tell us about these people?

They don't trust anyone.

That's a start.

No, they give their trust to anyone that tells them something they want hear.

It's called stupidity. It's contagious.



M

Originally posted by mmiichael



No, they give their trust to anyone that tells them something they want hear.

Post examples of this.

You must have plenty.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by mmiichael



No, they give their trust to anyone that tells them something they want hear.

Post examples of this.

You must have plenty.

You are the best example I can think of.

Say, do you know what trolling is?

Want an example?


M