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the Holocaust did NOT happen

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posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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I think you might see a lot of anonymous postings on this thread.

There are untold stories but the fact is that a lot of jews were killed during this time and that is why so much offence is taken with a comment like this.

A simple no comment would have done to be honest and you know that is not offensive if you get my point.




posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:13 PM
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Osirus, drop the race card. Its worn out and meaningless. How exactly does it apply to anything I have said?
A fact is a fact. Do the research. That is if your programming will allow it. Oh yes, you said You closed your ears.
You see that is part of your problem. You only want to see/hear what you already believe. Closed ears=closed mind.

Blup, forget the gas chambers. They would be very expensive and inefficient. The Germans are smarter than that.
How do you know that these were for killing people? How do you know that they were not built after the war for the purpose of building the propaganda? Big tourist dollars.

Oh also on those piles of bodies. Do you have any idea of how long these people had been dead? Who took the pictures?

Make a mental movie putting yourself into the area during the war. Look at it from both sides. One day be a prisoner in the camp, doesn't matter if you are a jew or a pole or a russian or what; you are a prisoner and you are working in their war plant.
Next day be a German officer high up enough that you have a good view of what is going in in the war effort and understand the workings of events all the way down to those prisoners working in your factories there.

If you are really good at this you may come up with some enlightenment.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by OhZone
All of you pro-holocaust believers are so hung up on all the death info that you are as blind-sided at any religious believer.

What an incredible lack of brainpower you must have.
All emotion, no thinking.
Just going on reacting like Pavlov's dogs.

And we wonder how the world got into such a mess.


The only one that seems to be getting emotional and lashing out is you. The only one being racist is you. The only ones attacking the intelligence of others is you. You can claim ignorance all you want, but why would all the holocaust survivors just make it up. Oh that's right, can't trust them Jews can we?

Yes the allies did bomb their supply lines etc, but tell all of the people that saw their entire families getting lead to the "showers" that it never happened.

I don't believe everything I read in books, but I have personally interviewed US servicemen that served in WWII, as well as holocaust survivors, and believe me the holocaust was very real. Or did all those tricky Jews in Eastern Europe get together for a meeting in order to fabricate the holocaust. Get real. If any of what you said held any water there would be people coming out admitting that it was a hoax by now.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 


You are the one that brought race into this not anyone else. Maybe if you could post something that is personal attack, prejudice, and superiority complex free I could take you seriously. However, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Also, I'm quite certain gas chambers, and ovens weren't constructed for propaganda purposes.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 


Seriously... they may have hated just about everyone (the nazis)... but it was the Jews they REALLY wanted extinct.


I highly recommend following the link....


Anti-Semitic Material * Solving the "Jewish Question": Two April 1933 articles by Nazi leaders. * Neues Volk: Material from the party's racial policy office (1934-1941). * "National Socialist Racial Policy": A 1934 speech on racial doctrine. * A German Catechism: 1934 anti-Semitic material for the schools. * "Why the Aryan Law": A 1934 Nazi pamphlet on racial laws. * Advice for Nazi speakers on anti-Semitic propaganda: What to say in Fall 1935. * Ten Anti-Semitic Arguments: Advice to propagandists in 1936. * Zionism: Zionism as part of the Jewish conspiracy (1936). * "The Eternal Jew": Photographs from a 1937 Nazi anti-Semitic book. * Hitler Youth Material: What HJ leaders said about race in 1937. * "The 'Decent' Jew": A 1939 essay denouncing the Jews. * "The Panic Party": A 1939 satirical article on Jewish emigration. * The Jewish World Plague: A chapter from Hermann Esser's 1939 book. * Ahasver: A section from a book on the fall of France. * The Jewish Problem: From a citizen's handbook to the Third Reich. * Jud Süß: An ad for the 1940 anti-Semitic film. * Jud Süß: The program for an anti-Semitic film (1940). * A review of the film The Eternal Jew (1940). * People and Race: Material from a Nazi racial monthly. * "When you see this symbol...": A 1941 anti-Semitic flyer. * "The Jews in World Politics": Part of a 1942 pamphlet on the Jews. * Racial Policy: Parts of a 1943 SS booklet on racial theory. * The Jewish World Parasite: A pamphlet from 1943. * Pestilential Miasma of the World: A 1944 book by Robert Ley. * 1944 discussion material: A call to annihilate the Jews.



Source







Mod Edit: Image Hotlinking – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 8/1/2009 by Mirthful Me]

[edit on 8/1/09 by blupblup]


+8 more 
posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by OhZone
So I'm horrible because I don't believe that 6 million jews died.
Lots of people died from assorted causes.
Some were executed.
Some died from disease brought on by lack of sanitation and lack of food since the Allies bombed the transport lines.
Strange you all cannot understand just how the situation there became so bad that people died simply as a result of the lack of supplies.


Oy vey!

I'll stick to addressing the first part of your post because if I address the rest of it I'll end up calling you a schmuck and detail your cognitive shortcomings.

Why would any Jews die from a lack of sanitation or supplies? Did they always live in camps? Did they congregate hundreds if not thousands of miles from their original homes by choice? Did they cross borders of their own volition? Why would a doctor, or a shop owner or a teacher leave the comfort of their home and reside in such heinous conditions. I'll tell you why my intellectually impaired fellow ATS member, because they were forced to under duress of arms; by jack booted thugs that had been brainwashed into perpetrating one of the most inexcusable acts perpetrated in modern history. The only thing more disgusting about the holocaust itself is when some anti-Semitic bigot reaches out from the safety of his mother's basement and denies the obvious instead of denying ignorance. I'm sure there's a video game calling you right now, I suggest immersion into you pathetic fantasy world lest the blight of knowledge and understanding infect the void that is your cranium.

Well, at least I didn't call you a schmuck.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by OhZone
So I'm horrible because I don't believe that 6 million jews died.
.


No if it was simply a difference of opinion it wouldn't be horrible at all. It is the simple fact that you started your post with a racist statement. That's it in a nutshell, that's my problem with your stance. Your opinion is obviously skewed.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by OhZone

All of you pro-holocaust believers are so hung up on all the death info that you are as blind-sided at any religious believer.

What an incredible lack of brainpower you must have.
All emotion, no thinking.
Just going on reacting like Pavlov's dogs.

And we wonder how the world got into such a mess.


We don't wonder anymore - people like you.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:31 PM
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A REMINDER-

There will be no more posting to the poster. Ad Hominems Stop Now.

Remain on topic and discuss the facts surrounding the topic, "the Holocaust did NOT happen".

There will be no further warning and subsequent posts in violation will be actioned.

Thank you.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:36 PM
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Comment about my own experience in my family saved for another time, as warning post occurred as I was typing mine.

[edit on 1/8/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


I understand your frustration, and your family has my sympathies, however, you might want to give us a little more of your grandmother's story if it all possible. It could potentially help the topic at hand. That is if you are up to it. Her account even told through you has great weight in my opinion. Up to you though.



Did not notice your edited until now, still up to you. Even if it isn't directly from the source it is a good indication that the holocaust happened, which is being disputed now for some odd reason. Again, up to you, and even though you removed it, thank you for sharing as much as you did.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Osiris1953]



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Only if Forum Moderator says it's okay. I don't want to be off topic or get the post deleted or anything... if FM says no you can PM me and we can talk about it. I would start a thread but I would need support/I wouldn't want it to get banned.

I mean... it's not... it's not like a conspiracy theory or a hypothesis... it's the story of my grandma's life so... I don't really know if it would get deleted or anything.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


A personally related post is not off topic, as was said, it is a good indication that the Holocaust occurred.

My warning was mainly for the personal attacks regarding members...



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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Not too long ago there was no such thing as calling someone "racist".
I have understood the use of this term today as making a false statement about someone of another race.
However, the way it works is that anyone making any statement about another race is now called a "racist".
Somewhere along the line reason has been lost. It has become taboo to say anything about any race, even your own.


How did they get where they were is obvious. The reasons also should be obvious. Let a war happen on US soil and see how many people are transported to work camps and prison camps.

So you all have a belief that Hitler just upped and began to harrass the Jews? Certainly you must be aware that these people have been expelled from every country they have ever lived, starting with 1500 years or so BC when they were expelled from Egypt. Why do you suppose that is?
What exactly is it about them that causes them to get expelled?
YOu have to know that it is not their religion as they are very to themselves about it. THey do not come knocking on your door tyring to convert you.

Maybe you are unaware of this:

jews declare war on germany
"Long before the Hitler government began restricting the rights of the German Jews, the leaders of the worldwide Jewish community formally declared war on the "New Germany" at a time when the U.S. government and even the Jewish leaders in Germany were urging caution in dealing with the new Hitler regime.

The war by the international Jewish leadership on Germany not only sparked definite reprisals by the German government but also set the stage for a little-known economic and political alliance between the Hitler government and the leaders of the Zionist movement who hoped that the tension between the Germans and the Jews would lead to massive emigration to Palestine. In short, the result was a tactical alliance between the Nazis and the founders of the modern-day state of Israel - a fact that many today would prefer be forgotten."

The article continues with more interesting info.
A search of "jews declare war on Germay" will bring you more articles. I haven't looked at them so cannot say if they have any more info.

Holocaust=US dollars to support Israel.
Also are you aware that German citizens have been paying "reparations"
to Israel and it seems that it is to go on forever.
The article on this site is dated 2009.

reparations continue 55 years after the fact
When is enough enough?

Here is the history or the reparations:
reparations

"The passions and propaganda of wartime normally diminish with the passage of time. A striking exception is the Holocaust campaign, which seems to grow more pervasive and intense as the years go by. Certainly the most lucrative expression of this seemingly endless campaign has been West Germangs massive and historically unparalleled reparations payoff to Israel and world Jewry for the alleged collective sins of the German people during the Hitler era. Since 1953, West Germany has paid out more than $35 billion in reparations to the Zionist state and to millions of individual "victims of National Socialism."

How did this remarkable program get started? How lucrative has it been? What does it suggest about the "six million" figure? And what are its social and political implications?"

Past my bed time.
I'll check with you tomorrow.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by OhZone]



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by sensfan
 


hi sensfan, wings vs sens cant beat it!

i don't think you'll find too many people that think the holocaust didn't happen at all? what many do think is that it has been grossly exaggerated. there were nearly 60 million deaths during WW2. even if there were 6 mil. jews killed, it would still not equal the 8-11 million russian civilian deaths. point is many people died from many different causes. plague and other diseases claimed many lives, as did starvation, freezing and even allied bombings. to single out one group to benefit and favor from this situation isn't rational.

one fact about the holocaust that makes it controversial is the fierce defensive effort to deny anyone from researching it. men have been, i believe still are today, imprisoned for attempting further knowledge of the truth in this significant part of history. you are allowed to freely research and investigate any part of our past you wish without question, but not the holocaust? this makes no sense and leads people to believe there is something being protected. truth stands up to any and all scrutiny and needs no defending. why would someone go to such extremes to hide the truth?

there is a law in the U.S., probably elsewhere too, that hindrance or destruction of evidence to a crime is equal to an admission of guilt. until these suspicions are lifted and researchers are aloud to produce real findings, this will never be concluded. many believe that hitler was funded by the jewish rothchild family, wall street and bank of england. this is probable due to evidence of these jewish bankers funding both sides of every war. they profit well from wars so it's not to hard to believe they start and fund them. rothchilds claim to be jews, yet they allow their slaughter? actually, they're zionists who care little for jews or anyone else. this is what people hate.

this is where people are confused and think others hate jews. jews have lived peacefully among muslims, germans, russians anywhere really for thousands of years. the hate has come in the last 60 yrs of zionist leadership ruling their government, as well as americas, and have been rightly despised by much of the world. currently, hate for the 60 years of oppression and genocide of the palestinians.

there is so much dirty history of zionism from their dirty tricks in WW1 to trying to sink the uss liberty while murdering american servicemen. what's sad is all the fighting between jews and the world as well as the holocaust and palestine, these are a very specific part of what zionism is. they are no accident.

anyway, good thread!

jz


+2 more 
posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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PART I
First I'd really like to thank a handful of members for their support, even in the brief amount of time I went downstairs to drill my dad for the details- dates and numbers I always seem to forget.

This is my family's story. Of course Raven is not my real name. I'm 18 years old. I try not to talk about these things because, in all honesty, they are depressing. I also assumed people already knew about this and that there was no point repeating it. I was raised Jewish, and I suppose I am culturally like my mom, but I don't believe or follow Judaism. My dad was raised traditional, almost orthodox. My mom is more culturally Jewish- she is an atheist and believes in ETs (but no encounters, just a hypothetical thing). The grandmother I will be speaking of is my dad's mother. When I was little, my dad's dad died, and I never really got along with that side of the family to begin with- their accents were thick and strong and half the time I didn't understand what they were saying to me. They were (unlike many people think about Jews) not very wealthy. My grandpa was not keen on investing in much of anything, and my grandma listened to what he said.

I don't know when I first learned about the Holocaust. I think it happened gradually from the time I was born by overhearing conversations. I always wondered why my dad's family was so much smaller than my mom's. But there was no point in time when I "learned of" the Holocaust. When I got older, I traveled and heard my grandma speak. She spoke in public schools in many towns in my area, colleges, museums, and most recently she spoke at a government building regarding her experience and also about the current conflict in Darfur.

I'd like to note that ATS is the first place in my life that I have encountered people who don't believe in the Holocaust as I learned it.

This is the story that I was told by my father and grandmother about what happened in her life. This is the story that thousands of people have heard in schools and meetings all over the country, it is on record in the Holocaust museum, and in numerous other Holocaust archives. So I will tell it here and I don't want to ever explain again on this website or have to defend myself. That's why I rely on a lot of support from other members because honestly, I'm just a kid, I don't need to argue about things that are close to my heard. And after I am said and done, if you think I'm lying, then I think it shows poor character.

My grandmother was born in a small town called Jasina in an area that is now the Czech Republic. It is part of sub-Carpathian Lithuania, near Poland. My grandma's father (my great grandfather) owned a farm and the general store in town. My grandma had lots of animals when she was little- horses, dogs, cats (I think one's name was Mitsy). She walked to school every day and learned to speak Czech and Polish, as well as some English there. She had a mother (who I was named after), father, two sisters, and three brothers. There were gypsies in her town and her family always gave them food to eat. They were fairly wealthy for their town but didn't have much, and new shoes were a big deal back then.

When my grandma was 20, things started to change. Jasina became a ghetto and they couldn't really go anywhere, but things weren't too bad yet. In April 1944, when my grandma was about 20 and a half, Jasina was evacuated and she was separated from most of her family. She was sent to Auchwitz first, and as they were marching to the cattle cars, she was separated from her father who died in the camps. At this point in the story when my grandma tells it she always cries and I could try to put in the same emotion that she does regarding what he said to her but I just can't.

At Auchwitz she was separated from her mother and sisters. She tells the story of how they made two lines and one line led to a room where they shave your head and take your clothes, and the other led right to the gas showers. In Auchwitz they gave very little food, and here she saw Josef Mengele, who she said was very handsome but also very cruel. One day in line-up she smelled something horrible and asked somebody near her what the smell was. She was told it was the smell of her parents burning.

My grandma was in the famous death march out of Auchwitz. She was taken to a work camp 35 miles away where they put her on cattle cars. The trip on the cars was long, hot, and reeked of the diseased and dead people in the cars with her. People just went to the bathrooms everywhere, there was no food, it was totally dark.

From the cattle cars, she went to two different work camps- Gelsenkirchen and Essen. I think here she was still with her niece, who was about her age. They somehow managed to survive. Many older women and mothers who had been separated from their children gave my grandma some crumbs of bread. They had old bread, weak soup, and some other beverage, but only about half a bowl every two days.

From the work camps she went to Bergen-Belsen. While working either here or at the work camps she had broken her arm, which typically meant she would be killed as she was useless for the Nazis. However, one woman Nazi was kind to her and kept her as a translator because my grandma knew 6 languages at that point (7 now, she speaks English). They casted her arm but lice got underneath and ate at her flesh. She said the itching was horrible and she got infected.

Luckily, Bergen-Belsen was liberated in April 1945. She went to Sweden and stayed there for awhile and learned English. Then she came to America and met my grandpa and settled in New York. She crocheted and designed knitting and crocheting designs for magazines.
To be continued...



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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PART II

My grandma has dentures because of her poor nutrition in the camps. She has no tattoo number- this is because near the end of the war the Nazis stopped tattooing because they did not want a record of the number of people that they killed. Also the people, especially Jews, that were sent right to death did not get tattooed. If you don't believe that, I can get you a source.

My grandma's two sisters, mother, father, and nephew died. Her brothers survived but one served as slave labor for a long time. Her niece survived and lives in Israel today.

My grandma stayed in Sweden but there were many countries both before and after the war, including the USA at certain points in time, who would not immigrate Jews or survivors. This explains my pro-Israel stance for those of you that I have been nagging in the forums recently. And why the negativity around the word 'Zionist' makes me throw up in my mouth a tad.

I'd like to close with a conversation I had with my dad last year. We were coming home from grandma's apartment and I asked him about death and his pro-religious standpoint. I asked him if he wanted to be cremated, and told him how much space coffins take up in the ground and how I don't want to rot, etc. He said "I don't want to be cremated." I laughed and asked why, told him it was stupid.

He said "because my family members died that way."

That's pretty much all I have to say... questions are welcome, but I may have to ask my dad for the answers. I.. uh... really really really dislike you non-believers because, honestly, why would we make this up? We're not even getting sympathy for it, no money, no nothing...

The above is the truth. Deny ignorance.

--I'd also like to add that if this post changed just one person's mind out there, then my life is a lot more meaningful.


[edit on 1/8/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Fantasic story of determined survivors. The evidence is there if your willing to look for it and the truth of the holocaust is real. Those who tend to try to debunk history seem to be upset that the Jewish people make sure that we can't forget the facts, They live by the motto " Never Again "! It pains me to hear those that have a chip on their shoulders over what the Jewish people have accomplished by being a close knit community. It irks folks that they actualy take the time to master things like the law and accounting and know how to read and keep a balance sheet. Working together is how they do it and that fact makes folks envious and jealous of the success! I will always consider the Israelis our alies,no matter what!
Zindo



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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Thank you, Zindo. I really appreciate your commentary and support. You're right- the evidence and truth is there for people who are willing to look for it.

I don't know if these people think the Holocaust Museum in DC is a scam or what, but I know I cried when I went there, especially when I walked into the cattle car that they restored.



posted on Jan, 8 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Yes, thank you for sharing your families story. It takes a lot of guts to share things like that, especially when there are people who choose to deny something that is really undeniable.





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