Time To Tell The Truth About Israel …Without Fear Of The Mind Police , by David Icke

reply to post by crmanager

The US is not the source of evil in the world. Israel DID NOT have MOSSAD cause EVERY trouble in the Middles East as claimed. Aids was not a CIA created disease and God BLESS America and Israel.

I advise you only rant at me for things I have actually said.It'll make you look less like a fool.

Operation Northwoods was mentioned to show you that leaders,even in so called civilized worlds,think about harming their own people to get what they want.


Oh.And you still haven't answered my question.

Before 9/11 would the American people have given their support to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq?

An added question just as important;without 9/11 what justification/reason/excuse would have been used to invade Afghanistan and Iraq?



[edit on 12-1-2009 by DantesLost]

Originally posted by DantesLost

Are you referring to the Arabs?

If so this is incorrect.Only the Bedouin are nomads.

Then are Palestinians Arabs, or are they Bedouins?

Originally posted by DantesLost
Leaders attacking their own people to get what they want is an age old method.It is also a great way to get the people to support you.

Would the people of America have supported their governments invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq before 9/11?

Would you believe that Hamas and Fayyad kill more of each other, including innocent civilians, than Israel has done in their efforts against Hamas over the years?

Originally posted by DantesLost
An added question just as important;without 9/11 what justification/reason/excuse would have been used to invade Afghanistan and Iraq?

[edit on 12-1-2009 by DantesLost]

You assume we would still have wanted to invade those countries if 911 didn't happen.

But I would say Afghanistan would have still happened, and that Iraq would have not. You my friend create your own conclusions based on fringe scenarios.

I think it is more plausible and well within Bushes personality to have attacked Iraq out of total spite for the Muslin world “for how dare they do something like 911 on my watch…I’ll show them”…mentality

reply to post by Xtrozero


I have been talking about something similar in another post.

The problem stems from the name Arab.

The first Arabs came from the Assyrian Empire,9th century BC.
It is a name given to a group who can include all kinds of cultures not just one,and there have also been tribes/groups of Arab Jews and Arab Christians.

Other Arabs came from the Arabian peninsular,and it usually refers to those who are of the Muslim faith and come also from North Africa and parts of the Middle east.(as opposed to those who are Persian)

Throw into the mix those Palestinians who are descendants of the Philistines (a group settled in Canaan before the Israelites) and you can see why people get confused.


Bedouin's are descended from the people of the Arabian peninsular.

Palestinians are descended from,amongst others,the Philistines and the 2 groups of Arabs mentioned above.

reply to post by Xtrozero

Would you believe that Hamas and Fayyad kill more of each other, including innocent civilians, than Israel has done in their efforts against Hamas over the years?

No.
Because I know how many each group has killed.
Look up my thread,The Truth About Israel,for more information.


And if 9/11 didn't happen then what reason could the Bush administration give to justify the invasion of Afghanistan.Bearing in mind it would have to be something that a few other countries would support.

Originally posted by DantesLost
reply to post by crmanager

 

The US is not the source of evil in the world. Israel DID NOT have MOSSAD cause EVERY trouble in the Middles East as claimed. Aids was not a CIA created disease and God BLESS America and Israel.

I advise you only rant at me for things I have actually said.It'll make you look less like a fool.

Operation Northwoods was mentioned to show you that leaders,even in so called civilized worlds,think about harming their own people to get what they want.


Oh.And you still haven't answered my question.

Before 9/11 would the American people have given their support to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq?

An added question just as important;without 9/11 what justification/reason/excuse would have been used to invade Afghanistan and Iraq?



[edit on 12-1-2009 by DantesLost]

What color is the sky in your world? Maybe just a little RED!?

Without 9/11 there would be no need to invade Afghanistan. Oh wait a second, the beloved savior of the left Clinton turned Afghanistan into a 18,000 hole golf course going after Osama with a few cruise missles? DIDJA forget that littel ditty?

If Clinton invaded like he should have in 1993 after the first WTC bombing (Oh wait, that bombing was just an excuse to invade and was an attempt by the NWO to start a war)or 1998 after Somalia or October 12 2000 when the Cole was bombed or the Kenyan and Tanzanian bombings then you would have LOVED this friggin war. Who looks foolish now?

We had all the reason we needed to flatten these countries years before 911.

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

You are right you did have a nice cop out.

Why are all complaints against the "Jewish" ethnic cleansing going on.

Why no posts against the Destruction of Chechnya by Russia, the destruction of Georgia by Russia, the fact Russia has turned off the heat in Europe, the factthat Iran has shipped arms to Iraq to kill US soldiers, the...

You don't like the JEWISH nation.

Oh I forgot. You LOVE jews but hate Israel.

There is a complaint towards Mossad in Georgian government trying to trick Russia into WW3. EU backed by evil Condoleezza Rice to respond with their anger at Russia and yeah if you don't pay your bill you don't get energy. Its no more different with energy companies in western countries handling civilians with multiple missed payments. Anyway thank god Russia didn't start invading Europe just to help America/Israel to get into Iran. Bye!

Originally posted by DantesLost
Palestinians who are descendants of the Philistines (a group settled in Canaan before the Israelites)

Palestine is named from the Philistines, but the Palestinians are not their descendants. The Philistines were a sea-faring people from Greece or Crete. (or that area) The were not Semitic, nor did they speak Arabic or Hebrew, or Egyptian but had their own language which is now extinct. The claim that the Palestinians are the original settlers of Gaza is a myth. The country is named for a group of people that are now extinct.


people.cornell.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...

The difference being that the Western nations like the U.S. or Britain need to justify their actions to the people. Without 9-11 I doubt if the U.S. would have invaded Afghanistan, and especially not Iraq. Did a splinter group within the U.S. government guided by the GW admin carry out 9-11, or did the GW admin simply allow it to happen, perhaps even aiding the attack? That is a good question, but we do know that the first attack against the WTC was carried out by Muslim extremists, and the evidence is considerable that Muslim extremists planned, and carried out the second successful attack against the WTC. The bigger question is did these Muslim extremists who carried out 9-11 play into the hands of the NWO types or one of the NWO groups who happened to be in power at the time? I would say the second situation is most likely.

Yes, it is most likely that Muslim terrorists often play into the hands of the different NWO groups, but that doesn't change the fact that these Muslim terrorist organizations are still doing exactly what they want to do, which is kill innocent people to support their cause. What role does Israel have in the policies of the NWO types, possibly some, but very little.

These terrorist groups answer to no one. They do what they want without provocation. Hamas started this war, Israel is answering in self defense. Hamas has shown that they will do what they want, including murdering their own people, without regard of the consequences. Hamas doesn't want the press inside of Gaza, because Hamas doesn't want the world to know what they are up to, how much they are responsible for putting innocents in harms way to further their political cause.

Israel's ground invasion is the only answer, to remove the cancer that is Hamas, and then, maybe the people of Palestine can live in peace. Maybe the people of Palestine might learn to thrive in Israel. Odds are that the people who support Hamas don't want to see Palestinians ever live in peace with Israel.

Should Palestine learn to live in peace with Israel, on who will the radical Muslims have to blame the west as the root of all evil? As the oil reserves dwindle, and the income from oil begin to dry up as well, a technological savvy Israel may become the source of income and wealth in the Middle East. What will those who want to spread Islam at all costs do then?

Western nations are not the only ones who scheme to control the world.

As a slight aside, there is a good article here telling just one of the stories of a palestinian forced to leave his home.

POET - there is an awful lot you are missing out about WHY people in the mideast view the west with extreme suspicion.

Read up about how western powers decided to carve up the mideast between them in the 1920's to control the oil, the oevrthrow of Mossadegh in Iran for the puppet shah, the arming of both sides in disputes and the constant attempts to control and interfere, as well as the supply of WMD's to certain countries.

dbates


As I have just pointed out on another thread,it is just one theory that the Philistines were the Sea Fairing people.Another is that they came from mainland Greece,some say from the fall of Mycenae.Others say they came from Crete or Cyprus.

It even mentions this in one of the links you gave.




crmanager

What color is the sky in your world? Maybe just a little RED!?

Yes.But only because I live near Man Utd's football ground.

If Clinton invaded like he should have in 1993 after the first WTC bombing (Oh wait, that bombing was just an excuse to invade and was an attempt by the NWO to start a war)or 1998 after Somalia or October 12 2000 when the Cole was bombed or the Kenyan and Tanzanian bombings then you would have LOVED this friggin war. Who looks foolish now?

I believe it is you who is still looking foolish.

Who would you have attacked and were?
Bear in mind that Al-Qaeda was actually formed in Pakistan,not Afghanistan.And it evolved out of the group,Maktab al-Khidamat.Most of their operations also operated out of Pakistan,and at a later date,the Sudan.(and lets not forget their principle bases in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia)




[edit on 13-1-2009 by DantesLost]

reply to post by budski


Budski

How long we been going around about this? I know many factions within Western powers have been manipulating things in the Middle East, and all over the world. Thing is, I see Israelis as small players in this game, just trying to survive. After Palestine and the other nations declared that they would push Israel into the sea, of course Israel did some things they probably regret, but the Palestinians did some things they should regret as well. I have looked at the history, and I don't see the Palestinians or Muslims as having the high ground. Israel is just trying to survive, and they have a right.

The terrorists are the pawns, with their own agenda, of the people who control the Middle East, both within and without the Middle East.

I guess if you don't know me by now, you never will. I have already debated the finer points of this history with you, and others. You don't have the evidence to back up your claims, and I have successfully countered those arguments, just as I continue to defeat your argument here on this thread.

reply to post by poet1b


Sorry to burst your bubble, but you have defeated no-one and proved nothing other than your own ignorance.

If Israel is such a minor player, why do they receive so much funding from the US, as well as receiving so much military hardware?

US aid by country

More on US aid to Israel

Minor player?

Right.

You have repeatedly avoided answering questions posed by myself and others - if you wish to be taken seriously, answering those questions would be a good place to start - particularly as you have got more than one statement spectacularly wrong.

Originally posted by budski
Read up about how western powers decided to carve up the mideast between them in the 1920's to control the oil, the oevrthrow of Mossadegh in Iran for the puppet shah, the arming of both sides in disputes and the constant attempts to control and interfere, as well as the supply of WMD's to certain countries.

I do not really understand your position on all this….

Yes, the UN carved up this area and that has created much of the problems we see today, but they were the powers of that time to do it. Throughout history those who hold the power tend to do these things…nothing new here

The Jews wanted a state of their own and so they bought it, fought for it and any number of other things to get it and they did. This is now history as it is with so many other countries that were created as they moved the indigenous people aside….nothing new here

Middle East is extreme, which is how all the countries over there see things as normal. Israel is doing a lot less than what goes on in other countries throughout that region. One small difference is Israel does kill civilians in their tactical moves against an armed enemy, but the civilians are not the target. What we see with many other countries in that area is civilians are the sole target. This is all a part of the extremism of what everyone over there is willing to do for their cause, so why do people gasp at Israel and barely blink on worst events that happen daily throughout the region.

Hamas and so many other organizations are corrupt and fanatical, and they would do anything for their cause even killed their own people for it, but so many want to paint a different picture of them. These groups want and feed the war and struggle, they want the US to stay, and they want and help create the suffering. This is how they maintain control, and a big part of that control is to have devils around them i.e. the US and Israel. ..once again nothing new here

Countries like Syria and Iran would love to see Israel wiped off the map. In this case it is a religious thing for them, and so Israel could be the friendliest nation on earth and these objectives to destroy them would not change. We are talking about at a level that a person is willing to strap a bomb on their chest just to kill two Jews. Iran Screams at the injustice and this is the same country who sent out 10,000s of young people to be mine hunters during their Iraq/Iran war. This is also the country that views 70,000 students signing up to be suicide bombers as national pride…nothing new here

The US has had very close ties with Israel and is the only reason the countries around them have not killed every man, women and child there, and so the US support is extremely un-proportionally in favor of Israel. This is neither right or wrong, for the US has the right to choose who they want as an ally. Also remember that Saddam and the Taliban were allies too at one point, and that didn’t turn out so well, so sticking with Israel might also be the US best choice.

1000 Deaths over there means nothing to these people in that area, 10,000 they barely blink, 100,000 and they start to ask questions… life is cheap over there, and they do not care for they only care about their causes and the body count means nothing. Finally nothing new

Because of all this I find so many anti or one-side Israel posts as hypocritical.

reply to post by Xtrozero


My decision is pretty easy to understand - Israel, or more particularly the Israeli government, needs to stop killing hundreds of innocents and using disproportionate force against unarmed civilians.

It's very easy for some to sit far away from what has become a humanitarian crime and say "so what" but in that direction lies unending warfare.

The very same people who cheered the fall of the berlin wall are now nodding sagely and supporting what has become the new warsaw ghetto.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

My decision is pretty easy to understand - Israel, or more particularly the Israeli government, needs to stop killing hundreds of innocents and using disproportionate force against unarmed civilians.

I agree to a point. I say they are using disproportionate force that causes more civilians causalities then if they didn’t. But then that is my view point from someone who is not standing next to the Israel soldier to view the real situation as to why they do.

I can tell you one thing, if I am going into a building that I'm sure it has a high chance of being booby trapped and or has many hidden areas were a person could hide among the populace and kill me, I'm going in with a rather large force to prevent all that.

It’s called risk assessment, and in that place the risk assessment tends to end up with an air strike for anything else has a high chance of causalities.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Or perhaps there is a more sinister agenda.

Perhaps the genocide mentioned in the OP article is a reality - a permanent end to the "palestinian problem"

After all, given recent history, if anyone can get away with it, Israel can.

Just a thought relating to the Icke article.....

Originally posted by DantesLost
dbates


As I have just pointed out on another thread,it is just one theory that the Philistines were the Sea Fairing people.Another is that they came from mainland Greece,some say from the fall of Mycenae.Others say they came from Crete or Cyprus.

It even mentions this in one of the links you gave.

crmanager

What color is the sky in your world? Maybe just a little RED!?

Yes.But only because I live near Man Utd's football ground.

If Clinton invaded like he should have in 1993 after the first WTC bombing (Oh wait, that bombing was just an excuse to invade and was an attempt by the NWO to start a war)or 1998 after Somalia or October 12 2000 when the Cole was bombed or the Kenyan and Tanzanian bombings then you would have LOVED this friggin war. Who looks foolish now?

I believe it is you who is still looking foolish.

Who would you have attacked and were?
Bear in mind that Al-Qaeda was actually formed in Pakistan,not Afghanistan.And it evolved out of the group,Maktab al-Khidamat.Most of their operations also operated out of Pakistan,and at a later date,the Sudan.(and lets not forget their principle bases in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia)




[edit on 13-1-2009 by DantesLost]

Your Middle Eastern History is as vague as your arguements.

AlQaeda could have been formed by Martians but it was based in Afghanistan and that is where it spread like the cancer it is. It is in Sudan and we attacked it there alond with Clintons failed Somalia attack.

It is in Pakistan and we have been attacking there.

And God knows we have been squashing Afghanistan. So lets get back to the post...

Find them, kill them, wherever they are. Just like Israel is doing now and God love 'um for it 'cause when the big BO gets in office we will be talking to people who are actively planning on the destruction of Israel and the west overall. At the same time their Iranian Masters will be laughing at him.

reply to post by crmanager


I think you'll find that Al Qaeda was operating in America (1986) long before they were operating full scale in Afghanistan.(1996)

And who is the 'they' that the Israeli's are killing?
Bear in mind Al Qaeda have never attacked Israel.