Did American domestic policy put you out of business, too!

The only place a free market exists is in the minds of those who believe in it. Just like communism, it is a fantasy, that belongs in books that start with "Once upon a time".

In order for a market system to work efficiently, these has to be competition, to establish a system which competes, there has to be an evenly enforced fair set of rules (regulation which are laws which serve good purposes), just like in professional sports. When one team is allowed to cheat, then the competive nature is destroyed, and you get the kind of mess that currently exists.

reply to post by Zerbst

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I agree, I like the idea of keeping government to a minimum. That way they can do a better job of only going after the crooks.

Any one paying attention can clearly see that the people preaching free market economics always wind up expanding government, in order to protect the interests of the super rich. Nothing for the common man, everything for the monied elites.

Under de-regulation policies, rather than our representative writing the laws, the lawyers write the laws under the exemption of court law. It is the judiciary branch that has gotten grossly out of control. Anyone who has ever dealt with family court can tell you that clearly. Courts always work to expand their size and jurisdiction. Courts love laws, the more laws, and the more confusing the laws, the greater their degree of control.

I feel for you man.

Banks & insurance companies are the biggest crooks on the planet, but it seems the way of our world that most corporations the bottom line is greed - not product.

We are in the Computer age - where all transactions can pretty much happen in a few seconds - sometimes minutes - depending on how many systems they have to hand off data and post times are determined by the software. Banks always set their software to post much later than necessary in order to manipulate your money and fees.

Instead of providing an honest service they play a sophisticated shell game with your money in order to mask their true cost to the consumer.

Not only do banks play games with when they post deposits or process withdrawals, but big ones like BOA have double accounts setup for the purpose of extracting extra fees from their customers. Now you'd think that the computerized accounts would be setup to benefit the customer by giving you real time information - nope they have a real account - one that only the bank has access to and a fake account that you interact with when you log on or access an ATM.

They claim its your benefit to allow you to pump a few extra dollars more gas or whatever, but the reality is they know exactly how much money is available and they want to charge you the $30 overdraft fee - so that's why they don't provide you with real time information. You have to carry that old fashioned check book around and constantly keep track of what the bank pretends to keep track of for you, to get you not to pay attention. Even then once somebody charges you more than you expected or a mistake is made all the whole account collapses, because they bank has set it up to do so. Wouldn't it be nice if a Bank actually let you use it's computers to give you real time information on your account so you don't over draft?

The Banks are not even safe - with ATM's and computer banking, fraud is rampant and the bank has provided easy access for thieves, but does not cover your loss if somebody steals from your account unless you catch it within 60 days - Not easy if you have a large sum of money and lots of transactions and are expecting the bank to look out for you.

People set up fake readers at gas stations & ATM's and often the banks don't even inform their customers of the loss even after they have discovered it. If you don't catch it they just keep quiet so they don't have to pay for their poor security that shouldn't allow such easy card copies to be made, but they don't want to spend money for a more secure system using finger prints or eye scans.

No doubt our government has been bought and paid by these lobbyist in order to defraud us as they're doing.

Our true enemies are not in caves wearing sheets, they're wearing suits and they give us a fake smile when we do business with them.




[edit on 9-1-2009 by verylowfrequency]

reply to post by jenmckin

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thanks for sharing jen. that kinda sounds like a rehab moment doesn't it?

you and i are far from alone in this. i understand how scared you may be and prob. can't stop thinking about it, and your family. i went through the entire range of emotions for at least 3-5 months. then without even knowing you let that huge entangled mess of life go, you slowly start to realize how enslaved you were to it. running a small business in the U.S. the last 5 years may have been the single worst job there was? being a start up company was for sure! to be honest about it though, if not for this, we blindly would've run the hamster wheel forever. that scenario would have been the tragic one. this is going to be a good experience. if not, call me and i'll lend you a couple bucks! j/k

i have never felt more free in my life and only in this experience can we make this change. things always work out, not from luck, they work out because we make it so. you ever notice that in times of crisis, only at that last desperate hour of need does the means for a solution come? this has happened to all of us many times over. one thing is constant, it always comes. just try to think of a time when you, or anyone else, got caught up in a situation where you needed money, a ride to work or meet a deadline and it failed to work itself out? there is no such time, it just doesn't happen.

keep that in mind and live your life. soon you will feel free and liberated. eventually you will again trust this phenomenon and be happier than ever! those times in your life when everything seemed to flow and come easy, they flowed because you were trusting this little fact of life, whether you were aware of it or not.

good luck to all of you in your new freedom! hitting bottom just means were going back up! thanks for the reply.

jz

Another small business owner here, for the past 15 years. I have consistently made money by ignoring the experts, following my gut, and remaining flexible.

When some situation came along to screw things up, I was able to adapt and change my approach because I ran a tight ship and I ran it lean. I constantly looked for ways to save minutes and seconds in my work day, how to save a few bucks here and there on office supplies.

Whatever it took and that approach proved to be highly successful for me. My work days got shorter and my earnings grew.

Now, it's like we woke up and the rules have all changed. That's because the US economy and the entire world has changed. Undertstand that, because none of us will make money like we did in the past.

Just last week, I was complaining about how I followed all the rules, I did things the way I should have, and I got burned just like you. Today, I have a different outlook.

As a fellow business owner, I'd like to remind you that you didn't get where you are today by affixing blame to someone else for your situation. You took the reins and steered your ship. That's not to say that what has happened doesn't suck, it's just that focusing on it won't change your situation. You know that.

Oh, it feels good to rail against the nameless, faceless tuckfards in banking, insurance and politics, but in the end, it doesn't do anything toward improving your situation. And let's face it, it isn't us little guys who are walking in front of trains or leaping out of buildings.

So, if you're done, I'd like you to join me in finding a way to thwart the system and make money despite of them. I've got a few pots on the stove, and one really wild idea that may be a big money maker if shipping completely stops.

I suggest you do the same thing. Take a guess what is going to happen the next two years and how your services will be needed.

You say you owned a body shop and did insurance repairs. Well, it seems to me that the money won't be coming from big insurance companies, but the little guy is going to want to keep his beater car going for as long as possible. In a contracting economy, people tend to fix what they have.

Perhaps you could establish your business in a different location, with lower overhead and start smaller? Instead of being a big operation, maybe you contract like the economy, get small and appeal to people's new found sense of frugality. Instead of just specializing in body work, do all kinds of general repairs and capitalize on your good reputation.

The point is that the big house, the big money, the great lifestyle we all experienced is now GONE. It's over, baby. It's a new paradigm and one where everyone is on the bottom floor. Like the woman making soap and bath items -- great idea. It may not be a big boomimg asphalt business, but it's something.

So pull yourself up by your bootstraps, fella, and do what you do best. Which is to take advantage of opportunity and create a fortune for yourself. You did it before, you can do it again. You have the same great business mind, the same skills and greater experience. You just need to apply it differently.

I have to start on my new endeavor, so I must end now. Best of luck to you, but somehow, I don't think you need it.

Sounds like soar apples to me.

Many of the most successful people in the World have had numerous failures before becoming successful. The difference between them, you and 99% of the rest of the population is they didn't complain about it, they dusted themselves off and moved on.

I've experienced failure in the past, but I dusted myself off and have had the most successful years of my life over the last 5 years. I can find many people who agree. Only those who wish to complain about things are doing poorly.

Opportunities are abound. There were more millionaires made during the Great Depression than any other time in our history. With difficulties and change come great opportunities for those who look.

At the end of the day, a lot of people overextended themselves and they're paying for it now - bout time, too.

reply to post by VelmaLu

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Being that we are more productive than ever, I don't see why we have to sacrifice to survive. We should continue to thrive, not just survive.
Fighting an unjust system is a good thing. Fighting for what is right shouldn't prevent people from being successful, but accepting that we can not continue to live better lives does not make any sense.

Rebuilding our economy isn't going to be easy, and we are going to have to find new ways to get ahead, but settling for less is not the answer. Demanding justice, and putting forth a reasonable effort to end corruption, and demanding that our government do its job of eliminating crooked business practices is something we should all continue to do as well.

I can't help but wonder if this a blessing in disguise. When tax time comes, what are you guys gonna do? How can we let congress know that we are going to pay for their F# ups anymore? In this system of Monopoly that nobody wins, the rich get rich and the poor get poor? Where does the line get drawn? Could it really be that eventually these people will have so much money that they will wake up and realize that they have no economy left to spend their money? We are the ones that build their highways, pump their oil, serve them food, buid their homes, make their appliances etc. The wealthiest 1% just can not live without us. We are the ones who have become hard workers and skilled craftsman. Not them. Without us they would not be able to do anything.

So where do we go from here? Do we accept their Amero, or do we say hell no? Do we stand up and say no longer will the blind lead the blind? Robinhood steals from the rich and gives to the poor, but greedy corporations steel from the poor and give to the rich. So what if we just refuse to play? I for one do not wish to put any more money in their pockets, for they have already taken everything.

So they have removed our natural resources from our grasps and replaced it with worthless paper and a system of money that was destined to fail, now they want to take away our worthless papaer money and turn it into a system of credit to where they control the markets 100%. Hell no. Their financial system is a complete failure, it is time to go back to the original system, where mother earth determines the market. She provides us with precious minerals and herb yielding seeds and so fourth. She is balance. Our governments have removed her from our lives.

YES, POPEYE!!!

this thread was never meant to be pity party. i started it to lead off a series of topics hoping to spark meaningful discussions. issues that i feel are playing a devastating role in our economic situation.

these services, mentioned in original post, are terminally corrupted by the greedy profiteering of dirty politicians and lobbying corporate degenerates. these once vitally important industries that supported our infrastructure, have now become worse than useless and actually play a sizable role in destroying business and private sectors.

worse still, americans naively continue to put their trust in elected officials (OBAMA) in all branches of government, only to have these despicable immoral liars trade it for profits. what will it take to get people to STOP CONFORMING? so basically, politicians are too dishonest, greedy and corrupt to provide oversight to corporate profiteers that are too dishonest, greedy and corrupt to provide quality and fairness to americans citizens that are too lazy, ignorant, cowardly, poor and disorganized to provide oversight to anything?!

our countries infrastructure is in very, very bad shape from this evil greed spreading out of control. i personally believe that these manipulating bastards are not americans at all, but foreigners that have been infiltrating positions in american government for many years. a long slow plan that is finally coming to completion. a final rape and pillage of an easily manipulated uneducated group of slaves they have controlled for many years. ending with a massive "controlled demolition" of america to finish up their plan.

I ran a small mining company in Calif and the government put me out of business with there rules and regulations.

It was to the point in Calif that any tree-hugger can file a complaint that you are polluting any you have to go to court any prove to the government that you are not.
They don't need any evidence, just the complaint.

Then the regulations are crazy in what business can the government come into and enforce Workman's safety rules to the max even though you have no employees.

We had a two year period where the mine was running that just the partners in the mine were doing the work and we had 4 safety inspection 2 by the state and 2 by the feds. and we got a write up for not having some safety equipment that we did not need because we were not working in that part of the mine.

We also had to pay fees for some things that we did not do just because it was easier then spending days in court trying to prove we were not doing what they claimed we were doing.

Finely in 2003 they put new rules in effect that our small operation could not afford and we went out of business.
so i went and filed for disability and got it in two months.

I have been on disability ever since and the government sends me a check for not working.
and all you taxpayer pay me for not working.

Thank you government for the money.

Thank you taxpayers for putting me out of work.

I did not want to go on disability and i could work this mining job because i could work at my own pace.

But no employer would hire me for the same job or any other job because i was too disabled.

By the way it was a service connected disability from my time in the navy.

The problem is that most of us are ridiculously dependent.

Dependent on predatory agribusiness conglomerates that grow our food with cheap, illegal labor.

Dependent on construction workers to build our homes.

Dependent on banks to conjure money out of thin air to finance our homes.

Dependent on engineers and technicians to build and operate our power grid.

Productivity is increasing steadily and standard of living is decreasing rapidly. We are being taxed, regulated, and fined to absolute death. And nobody seems to care.

I would say become self sufficient! But that is impossible due to countless illogical statutes and limitations placed upon us by governments, corporations, homeowners' associations, banks, and other parasitic bureacracies.

We are SCREWED.

reply to post by Zerbst

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Good, cause that ain't what I came here for.

I wrote a book roughly called "A Westerner's Tenets" where my first two tenets are important to this topic, and a way out.

Muh first tenet is that truth is the only real currency. Among other things, my biggest points about this are that our relationship with the truth not only determines how smart we are, but also how capable we are of making things happen in the real world. Thus, our relationship with the truth determines our real worth.

If the economy collapses, and you don't know how to work with your hands, you are screwed. Honestly, I don't think things are going to get that bad, but, I think it is smart to be prepared.

My second tenet is that Living is defying inertia. Our ability to stoke our emotions and harness the powers of our desires without burning out of control is every bit as critical to our success as our relationship with the truth.

If we are going to turn our country around we must be able to identify what the root causes of our economic problems are, the inherent truth about why things are screwed up. Then we must get up the gumption to make the changes necessary.

I voted for McCain, But, so far I think Obama has been making the right moves. Clinton's third way economics had its merits, where government works with business, and Obama's seeming embrace of former Clinton cabinet members, and the Clintons is a very good sign. If Obama doesn't work out, then we elect someone else, not only for Pres but for congress as well.

Someone quoted one of our clever founding fathers who stated that, roughly, those who fail to participate in politics, are doomed to be ruled by the less intelligent.




[edit on 10-1-2009 by poet1b]

reply to post by ANNED

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Sounds to me like your problems weren't with the regulations, but the improper enforcement of said regs. Essentially, you were forced out of business by abuse of power and authority, and that can be done no matter what laws are on the book. This is something I have ran up against numerous times in scraps with our governments, local, state, and federal. I find local governments to be the most brutal and the most abusive, and judges and lawyers in this country have waaaayyyyy toooooo much power.

Why would the admins of GW and Arnold be so concerned about your small mining operations, while allowing giant corporations to skl fk our entire country. This is something we should all be asking ourselves. Might it be that the supposed champions of commerce have as their real intentions to destroy competitive markets in favor of control by giant corps?

It has been my opinion for some time now, that while the environmental movement has the right ideals, and many of the organizations spearheading that movement in the beginning were doing good things, the environmental movement has been taken over by the IC's, and is now being used against average people, while allowing giant corps to get by with murder.

What happened to you seems to follow a pattern repeated across the globe.

Some people just don't like the idea of capitalism. So let them all work for the government. Actually capitalism by itself can be pretty brutal. Survival of the fittest and the weak die by the side of the road. The rich in our country have it all figured out. They are getting the best of both worlds. Support from the government while harvesting more rewards for producing more for less in a capitalist culture.

We should all start the year with a government bailout check and be able to add to it throughout the year by our own efforts. Hooray for Semi-SocialCapitalism. How do I file to become a government supported business?

Obviously there is enough for everyone. They'll just print us all up some free cash. Let's march on Washington and each loudly demand our own free bailout check.

[edit on 10-1-2009 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by In nothing we trust

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Heck, if we all get bailed out the way the corporate CEOs get bailed out, then we will all be rich, and we won't have to work no more.

Some people prefer to lie and cheat for a living, they think it is easier than work, you know, physically doing something to make things in this work.

That's right we can all be rich. We all just need government checks and then no one will have to work anymore. Let the chinese and indians do all the work. We'll just sit around all day, do nothing and collect money.

And if the goberment won't give us any money, we'll just hire us some lawyers and sue 'em.

[edit on 10-1-2009 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by In nothing we trust

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Yeah, sure, that was Reagan's idea, but he called it a free market. Signed the largest tax increase in our nations history, and still buried government deeply in debt handing money out to the well connected. In 87 we had the S&L failure due to crooked business practices, subsequent bailout, not we have the banking bailout brought about by the same stupid ideology called the free market.

It is foolish to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. There is no such thing as a free market, the term is an oxymoron. When are people going to wake up to this reality.

Government has its job of regulating business to prevent abuse, fraud, destruction of the environment, and such, but government is not supposed to created jobs, either by directly spending the money or creating monetary policy that creates massive debt.

Somehow I don't think you are interested in a serious discussion.

Why because in screwing with the little guy they show there friends in the environmental movement they are doing something.

All the while the big companies just pay off the politicians.
Or have a lot of high priced lawyers that the lowly government lawyers know they can not beat so the don't try to go after the big corporations.

The government should provide oversight of a domestic policy based on fairness and equality for everyone. Dutiful in their obligation to intervene and legislate as necessary to maintain that policy in all concerning affairs. Also, oversight providing logical solutions concerning related effects on humanitarian and environmental issues.

A level playing field that provides competitive markets for the big and small players should be a given. This creates the most stimulation possible to economies and benefits industries as well as consumers. Competitive markets mean competitive prices for goods. The turmoil in today's market can only be created by an opposing set of principals. I believe it would be much easier to create a strong and healthy economy than it would to create the current conditions.

If that is true, this can only be intentional. The only proof you need to confirm this fact is the lobbyists that are allowed to fornicate with law makers. What could possibly be more devastating to an economy than legalized bribery? If that doesn't get the boat rocking, throw in some extortion and unequal taxation. How about some alliances with overseers like the Pharma/Tobacco/Chemical teaming with FDA? Or Oil/Coal and EPA? Let's allow off shore tax sheltering for mega corporations! Let's allow our major manufacturers to make their products in tiny countries we easily can debase! They can take advantage of the absent labor laws and we can't tax them if it's not made here!! If that just isn't quite enough, we can invite them to D.C. once a year to cut them a taxpayer check making up for the billions they believe they missed out on! And on and on we go.....

The point is the field is, was and never will be level. This is pay to play and we only have room for so many. Politicians and government are not here to make things fair or help people. They are the people best suited to convince others of all the lies and secrets that keep it going. At this point any decent person dreaming to help the world through politics is a fairytale. What is really sickening to me is thinking it has probably never been different? It's just an illusion.

Until this is concluded by the overwhelming majority, we cannot begin a resolution to destroy it for something righteous. Unfortunately, the normal human reaction to this makes it hard to accept. They even gave those choosing denial some words and catch phrases to use like Folklore, Urban Legend, Hippie, Nutcase, Lunatic and today's king, Conspiracy Theorist.

reply to post by ANNED

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For a long time now I have suspected that the environmental organizations have been taken over by corporations and political lobbyists, and now work primarily for International Corporations. It is just another sign of how bad things have gotten.