reply to post by mystiq

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I understand what you are saying, I wish things were different for her and her family. we will just have to watch and see what happens.

So you sign on to serve in the military but as soon as the going gets tough it should be ok to just back out of your agreement? That would not be a very effective military now would it.

Women are not in combat roles so she is not being asked to kill anyone Certainly not innocent people. She most likely has a support role in supply or medical. Actually you do have a choice, you can do the job you signed up for or cool your heels in the jail.

I do not support her actions and I am glad that most US soldiers have the courage to do their duty with honor. Courage and integrity is what makes a strong military.

Honestly, I don't have any sympathy for her. I mean, I can understand her actions, but at the end of the day she joined the damn army. It's a sad reality that if you join then you might have to go to war, and do one or more tours in a warzone.

She made the commitment, so she should follow through with it. If everyone who didn't want to go back did the same thing, there'd be no army left would there.

Sad thing is, if she'd have gone, she there's a chance she could have been home by now I think..or halfway through the tour and ready to come home at least. Instead, there's a very real chance she'll be gone from her family 5 years.

What a pathetic civilization we have become forcing mothers to go fight wars based on false flag operations and propaganda.

It is truly insane. And a huge injustice.

This story really bothers me more than most, because it really shows just how far we have slid down the scale of human decency and common sense.








[edit on 8-1-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

Yes, things have got pretty bad....seems like we are on that final descent of humanity sometimes.








[edit on 8-1-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

Just a quick clarification, in the US military you sign up for 8 years regardless on your initial contract. However many years active and the remainder inactive reserve. Just semantics I suppose...

Now for my 2 cents...

The way I see it, the contract is just a legal agreement between the individual and the military... you agree to follow lawful orders of those above you in rank in return for certain benefits.

What most people don't do, is read the fine print of the contract. They tend to listen to the sugar coated stories the recruiters tell them and stare at the dollar signs waved in front of them...

Now on the first part above, is that you agree to follow lawful orders of those above you.... well as shown in many threads here on ATS, the legality of the Iraq war is in serious doubt. The conduct of some members of our military over there has been reprehensible. There are accusations of war crimes floating around. It's even been questioned if we're even "defending" America at all... You can find these topics with a quick search of ATS...

With that said she can make a case that the US government itself is breaking terms of the contract... I don't think the case would go very far... but still...


Still further along you take an oath of enlistment... where you swear to protect and defend the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic... It can be argued that even then she (and technically all US military) has been forced to break the oath, which then causes the government itself to be an enemy....


Now.... this is assuming that both wars are wrong and illegal... however if the conspiracies are completely wrong then all this can be disregarded.

I sleep now. possibly edit tomorrow for content.

The US Govt has broke thousands upon thousands of contracts with the people. Get real!

Why should the citizens keep any contract with that fraudulent conman style govt?

Im 100% behind this woman, as i am FULLY agianst the legality of a contract that signs your LIFE over as PROPERTY of the GOVT

That is an illegitimate contract because you cannot sell a human being or sign a human being over legitimately.

Humans are not property (slaves)

All of your "she knew what she was getting into" thats a load of bull.

if she knew what she was getting into she wouldnt have ran off to canada.

everyone knows the army lies and lies just to recruit you and once you sign the papers they say "GOTCHA SLAVE!" and then proceed to treat you like trash

and i strongly condemn canada for refusing to allow political defectors into their nation

this is just further proof that humans consider humans as property

and if you support it, you support slavery in its fullest

It just chaps my hide , that the US Govt expects us to hold up to every single thing we sign

Yet when it comes to the US GOVT delivering on its promises, all i see is excuses excuses and NO accountability!

People are getting the short end of the stick here, and it pisses me off.

To think I actually once respected these fascists at one time.

TOO bad they went and flushed all their honor and dignity down the drain

I agree 100%, its illegal to sell humans or sign over humans as property. I dont care who you claim you are, ITS ILLEGAL.

Therefore the contract is null and void. By Default.

I agree it shows how vengeful and spiteful the US military is when someone shames them by running away.

Its a huge shame, and for the Military to punish her for it?

Cant believe they operate just like a Mafia now.

"You cant leave the mafia! once your in your in!"

Its an ILLEGAL contract and someone ordering you to be a slave is a UNLAWFUL order.

Think about human rights for a second.

And if the US Govt was worth fighting for, they wouldnt need to make anyone sign anything and then threaten them to scare them into staying.

If they were worth dying for, men would go without signing anything and fight to the bitter end.

This is a fact.

I believe that she has every right to decline going to war. Like others have said before, the United States is built upon the notion of free will. As such, the military is volunteer-only. I think any soldier should have the right to decline serving if their morals are in opposition to the nature of the fight.

Also, most of the arguments here work on the notion that the woman has a debt to the army. Well, no, she doesn't. The military has a debt to her since she has already completed her service...

sure, soldiers should treat their superiors with respect, but the military should reciprocate. She's a mother. Sending her to war is beyond disrespectful; it's cruelty.

She should give a 'dirty' urine sample during her next physical is she wants to get out.

If she appears to be a drug abuser she will most likely be discharged - it has been some time since I have served, perhaps they no longer discharge you for this sort of offense.

Is drug abuse still a dischargeable offense in the US military?

*I'd recommend this option over going to a Iraq where she WILL be party to War Crimes. (It is the only circumstance I'd recommend it. Drugs are for communists and subversives)

Sorry if this has been raised before, but I'm too lazy to read it all. What if she made the choice to join the military before she had a husband and kid? I know that my life outlook would alter if I gained a family, and she DID go once. Not saying it matters, but I can understand her outlook a little

It isn't an illegal contract and it isn't slavery. We sign a contract to provide a service for a certain period of time. In that time we are being paid well, given a nice place to live for free, extra money for food, extra money for clothing, a free education and once during your time in service you are given a choice to where you want to be stationed.

How is that slavery?

She was getting all of that and when the time came for her to do her duty she decided that she wanted to break her contract and not serve anymore. It does suck to be away from your family and I understand her not wanting to be away from them, but she owes a service she promised to provide.

Nobody threatens us to stay in. You are given the option to extend your contract. Most stay because of the free things that I mentioned. They don't take into the fact that we are at war.

That is a fact.

So, simply because you don't want to go and do something, you think they can just back out? "I don't want to go to the desert! It's too hot and yucky!"

Volunteer only military is true, but she signed on the dotted line. That meant she agreed to what they had to offer, good and bad. Sorry about that. Life sometimes does suck. Cool that you get money for college, bad you sometimes have to shoot someone in the face. (Actually, face shooting is a perk).





So, it's OK to send fathers, tho?

reply to post by jerico65

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"I don't want to go to the desert! It's too hot and yucky!"

Strange.

I thought it was because she didn't want to kill anymore people or be Party to War Crimes Again.

(She already participated in the US War Crimes against the Iraqi People for One Tour)

*I admire her bravery. She is more brave than I ever was. I served when I was drafted and participated in US War Crimes against the People of Vietnam - I wish I hadn't. I wish I had her Courage when I was younger...

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

If you sign a contract saying that from Date A to Date B, I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God, then you don't really have a very strong case of saying -nah, I don't feel like doing that. That's a legally binding document, that's enforceable under penalty of law.

And Canada is too busy trying to suck up to the US now by kicking her out, they never even did this with single healthy males during the Vietnam war.

I guess the cost of NAFTA to Canada includes human dignity too.

reply to post by Exuberant1

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Is it your opinion that all soldiers are war criminals, or only those who commit an act which meets the requirements of a war crime under the Law of Land Warfare/Geneva Convention/Hague/etc...? Do you believe that the mere act of being in a combat theater qualifies as a war crime?
What is the definition that you're using to describe what a war crime is?

All I can say on this is:

Imagine the uproar if they decided that you can no longer quit your job

" Sorry, you signed a contract with us here at McDonalds - so you'll be staying until you die! "

I can't imagine that going down well..