US soldier avoiding Iraq ordered to leave Canada

There are several choices when you sign up (at least when i did). There was 2, 3, 4, or 6 year enlistments. I found one of your comments interesting;




Remember when I said earlier in this post that I got out 2 weeks before they involuntarily extended everyone? What if I told you that some of my buddies that were not as lucky as I was, were supposed to get out after a 4 year enlistment and woke up one morning and were told that they had been involuntarily extended. This means that their enlistment just grew by at least 1 year, and that they were being deployed t Iraq. Now, I do not believe that is the situation that this young lady is facing, but those are the the kinds of things that happen when you are in the military.

Do you believe that those friends of mine still had a duty or an obligation to go over there, even though they had served "the term that they signed up for"? Here is an even tougher question. Do you think if one of my friends was involunatarily extended, and he went willingly to fight, and he had signed up for the College Fund money. Meaning, he would get X amount of dollars when he successfully completed his allotted term that he signed up for. Do you think that if he would have got killed in Iraq that the US Government would have paid that college money that he earned to his widow, or his family, or maybe even his kids? Let me know what you think.

I agree with you on that, it’s not fair to impose an “involuntary” extension as this removes the whole point of free will and choice. They should only be there for the time they agreed and signed up to. But as you said this is not the case with this woman.

As for the college money, I can see your point that the family should maybe get the money. At the end of the day, the person died serving and protecting their country, so I think that would be fair to give the intended college money to the family.

My whole point is just with choosing to sign up, she wasn’t forced to join and everyone knows and has a general idea what the military is about. You also have to look at this situation, if they didn’t punish her how would it look for other women in the force? Or women with children, would this hold them back getting moved up etc?

Mikey


[edit on 7/1/2009 by Mikey84]

reply to post by Mikey84

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Mikey

did you ever think that some ppl have different reasons to join the military and some dont even see an alternative for a life option so they throw it all in so they can have a "life" a "place in society".

You have the luxury of choice. Some dont, or sometimes in life we all have that situation where we dont see a choice. You can afford that choice. You chose to be out of harms way, not risking your butt to be shot down (thats what your "etc" means to be btw ) while having your license for free so you could go to private sector and buy one in the safety of your nest.

Or sometimes theres just some bad choices, the ones you end up sayin "holy s**t what have I done!"

I mean... sending a mother to iraq again whos already been there once is pure insensibility and some replies in here just show off how emotionless and heartless can arm-chair generals be.

(cause we all know the army is but I usually expect more from the "civilians".... I dont know why tho, since civilians have very often a lot more blood lust than army personnel... sometimes I think civilians should go into war instead of the army since they're all so pro-active when it comes to opinions on war and tactics and exterminations)

reply to post by desertdreamer

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I m not a vet but hold myself accountable for my actions.
I have fist fought many many times in my life and have been beaten a few times.
I learned that your choices are your learning experience.
If you don't want to get effed then don't put the name on the wheel because your number will come up eventually.
I have sympathy for her but know that she chose her path and has to learn from it like the rest of us.
As far as coming to canada is concerned....good for her and if she was smart she would just take off into the canadian wilderness as that would be easier then dealing with the authorities.
As far as how many terms goes...I say 1.The horrors that people see in war should only happen once.Why torture a human being to live with the horror?
1 term and then cut them loose.A good soldier should not be stressed and should be able to think straight with no baggage.

reply to post by Mikey84

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You make some good points Mikey. I can see where her thought process is, she is concerned about her safety and her family. But, you are correct in saying that she must move on and do what she has to do, even though I still do not agree with the amount of tours that are being required of our soldiers. Thanks for the comments, very insightful and well put.

Also, thanks to Drums and Mil for responding as well. Thanks for your comments, they shed light on both aspects of this story.

reply to post by desertdreamer

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The US is an all volunteer force. There is no draft. When you join the military you expect that you might be called on to go to war whenever your country needs you. It doesn't matter if she was in Iraq already in 2006. She should have just sucked it up and did her duty instead of running. Now she is in deep trouble because the military court is going to have to lock her up to make an example of her. They can't send the message that it is ok for soldiers to run from doing what they are supposed to do.

I am a vet. I served 4 years in the US Army with pride and honor. I had to do a lot of things I didn't like and traveled to all sorts of crap holes on this planet. That is the life of a soldier. The life that is chosen when you sign the dotted line and take the oath.

Well my main reason for the choice was that I cannot commit, but sure I would prefer to go through this life without being shot at or have to shoot at someone. But at the end of the day if that’s what really scared me, I wouldn’t of taken Australian Citizenship, when I took the oath and got citizenship I signed and agreed to “defending Australia should the need arise” – yes we actually have conscription here, so should a war break out against Australia (highly unlikely) I would be forced to defend in the military, can I complain about it? No, because in reality it was a choice I made when I applied for Citizenship.

Yes she is a mother, but if you start making and changing rules because she is a mother, a woman etc etc then what else will get changed, how will that impact mothers in the force who do want to go to Iraq, will they be stopped from going and be left on a desk in the states?

Mikey

I too was Army, 4 years.....so what do you think of the involuntary extensions that go on when a person is supposed to ETS? Just curious, not that it holds any water in this particular case.

Still no one has answered and I’m just curious, do you have the “buy out option” in the US Military.

It’s if you want to get out before your agreement is up you can, but you have to pay back all costs that have been used so far.

Mikey


[edit on 7/1/2009 by Mikey84]

Nope, the US military doesn't have that program.

No....there is no buy out option. The only way out is through disciplinary actions against you (bad obviously), a medical discharge, or do your alloted time. I believe that there are a few other ways (hardship, etc.), but it has been a while. But I am positive that there is no buy out option. Do you know of one in another country? I have nebver heard of this.

reply to post by desertdreamer

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I think involuntary extensions are BS. You should be able to leave once you do the time you signed up for. They are necessary though in some cases when you have a critical job in your unit and and there is nobody ready to replace you. Should be limited to 6 months to a year max.

reply to post by Mikey84

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First, I was joking about that "etc" it was just to tease you.

But second and... want me to be honest? Well... if it was up to me, I would say "go if you want to". I noticed a lot of changes in my friends mentalities when they became mothers so... if you really want my answer, it would be total freedom of decision regarding coming back to the army or not. If she decides to stay great, if she decides to leave claiming "I have now a child and I'm a mother" fine. Yes I vote for a "special circunstance option" regarding that subject.

Sure some would decide to stay in the army and the army doesnt have to be afraid of running out of "mothers". There will always be some kid somewhere crying for his dead mother so no need for the army to worry. But sure some would leave.

But this special case for me, is not because shes a woman, nor because shes a mother. Its because she's a woman, a mother and she was already there and she doesnt want to go back (so basically its a no - no - no- no situation). She did her part so, specially as a mother with a little child she shouldnt be forced to come back and has every right to want to assure the presence of the "mother" to her child by declining the "second invitation" which is in my conviction completly a moral and sensible mistake. Maybe they made an error, who knows...

[edit on 7-1-2009 by MilitieTempliSalmo]

reply to post by Erasurehead

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I am in total agreement with you on that one. Who is in charge of saying "this is what we need to be recruiting for, these jobs are critical and we are in short supply of qualified people"? Is it the pentagon?

reply to post by MilitieTempliSalmo

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I feel for her as well, I believe that it is a raw deal to continually send them back for tour....over and over. You can only roll the dice so many times before you crap out. I wonder if there is some type of support role that she could perform in a less "stressful" area.....maybe Saudi Arabia where soldiers are staged before going in? guess I am just grasping at strwas here, i feel bad for her and her family.....it is a crappy deal all around. But she is not the only one taking a bite out of that huge sh** sandwich over there.

Ireland does it – I know someone was in it for months and didn’t like it, it cost him thousands to get out. About 2 years after getting out and paying all that money he ended up joining again, lol... is still in it.

In Australia I’m sure they do it as when I was at a recruitment session about 5 years ago they explained it all and to leave was very expensive, you had to pay for every single thing that had be put into you (only fair you have to give it back) they gave us examples and the costs where around $70,000 and over. Weather they still allow it I’m not sure (can’t find anything on the website) but at the high costs, I doubt many people took that option and just stuck out their term.

I know it the UK you used to be able (only in the RAF) but it was something you had to apply for and be approved call PVR, and I don’t know if they still do it (someone correct me if i'm wrong).

I’m sure other countries might have something similar.

Mikey

reply to post by Mikey84

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Wow, I had no idea. So yeah, it looks like they try and discourage that by charging an exorbanant amount of money.

Soz bud that doted line is BS if it means you have to kill innocent people and dont have a choice to change your mind
I fully support her action and wished more soldiers used there head instead of being brainwashed into killing machines.

We are all people.

kx

I would offer her sanctuary in my home and charge anyone who showed up with treason because so far, I don't like what they're doing in my country. I don't stand for heartless crap. Wanting to live and be free from militia is not a crime, but is a very important signal that she is growing up, evolving and waking up.