US soldier avoiding Iraq ordered to leave Canada

When you join the military, there's no clause in your contract that releases you from your obligation if things are different than what you expected. If you don't like the military life, then don't reenlist.

If you're just now discovering that recruiters don't always portray an entirely realistic set of expectations, you're several decades behind the power curve. What recruiter in any field is going to tell you all of the things that you might dislike, and then expect you to still be interested.
That's why I wouldn't be interested in being a recruiter with the high stress of enlistment quotas that they're expected to meet. That still doesn't mean that the enlistee is excused from their obligations.

It's not just the military. There's a reason why the expression -"get it in writing" exists. Verbal contracts are worth bupkis.

reply to post by desertdreamer

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I was extremely bored the other day and found myself watching a dance show on a local station geared to a black audience. I was taken aback when a flashy add came on for the local air force reserve making it look like the greatest thing since apple pie. I had never seen that add before on the MSM and was sure it was targeted at the young black people who would be watching that show. Disgusting and devious exploitation of an undervalued part of society.

Here's some interesting military law from the Uniform Code of Military Justice:



Ladies, remember, you must act like a gentleman!

934. ARTICLE 134. GENERAL ARTICLE

Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

- www.ucmj.us...

So...that means "anything we feel like" in legal terms, does it not?



[edit on 14-1-2009 by saint4God]

I'm failing to see how those 2 articles have anything to do with being released from your contract. Those articles would apply if you were guilty of misconduct, not changing your mind about military service.

When you're only 17, how many decades do you really have to figure that out?



There's a difference between ignoring the bad stuff and lying. My recruiter lied and acted as if it was a surprise when the truth was discovered.



Apparently it does mean the recruiter is excused from his obligation to be honest in uniform.

It's not a popular opinion but it is shared by many.

I support the troops and NOT the war however...when any person joins the military they do so knowing (unless they are totally daft) that at some point there may arise a need for them to be deployed into a battle situation. They sign a contract stating they are aware and agree. It doesn't make it any less terrifying for the soldier, but it's something that even during times of peace, they KNOW that in the event of war, they may be deployed.

It is a risk but in so joining they accept that risk. I think it is wrong for her to try to get out of her obligation. Family or no.

If she doesn't buy into the mind of the military now then she never should have joined.

I agree she should be deported. She made a choice to join, knowing the risks, she made the choice to refuse her deployment and she must take responsibility for her choices.

Both are a subjective, qualitative set of rules, not statutory. In other words, if they feel you smell funny, it can be grounds for court martial and legally they're in their rights to do so. I don't know many who join the military know that no matter what, you are theirs in whatever manner they see fit until they say otherwise.

There's nothing disgusting or devious about being in the military, so why would that be the case to advertise? It's a very honorable profession, and offers more opportunities for a career, to the audience you're referring to than they might otherwise enjoy. What I find somewhat condescending is that you think they need people like you to protect them, because they're not smart enough to make their own decisions.

It's a double-fault. Lying/shady recruiters and people signing up without getting all the facts or knowing their legal rights (which they revoke by joining).

Unless you've been living under a rock, or have a greatly reduced IQ, you know that when you volunteer from YYMMDD to YYMMDD, you have obligations that you must fulfill. There are provisions in Basic Training where you can be separated from the Military for failure to adapt. Once you leave, and your status is no longer Initial Entry Trainee, this is no longer an option(without negative repercussions).

How 'worldly' do you expect a 17 year old to be? How many contracts do 17 year olds sign? Would you say someone who is in highschool has as much legal knowledge as someone leaving college?



Volunteering means you can leave. This isn't volunteer work, it's a contractual obligation. Again, misrepresentation in what in the world volunteering means:

"b (1): one who renders a service or takes part in a transaction while having no legal concern or interest" - www.merriam-webster.com...

Guess what, she HAS a legal concern now. The CONTRACT she signed when she enlisted is BOUNDING her to serve. Right or wrong, that's the truth.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by saint4God]

Ignorance of the law isn't a defence. The enlistee should ask as many questions and educate themselves before signing the contract. They should make sure they get things in writing.

To quote John Wayne- Life is hard, but it's even harder when you're stupid.

Which is fine as long as their recruiter is not their source of factual information.



Agreed, and hopefully parents educate their 17-year-olds of this before they get a call from a recruiter. They should also talk about sex, drugs and other dangers by the time they're 13 as well.



Ah, but you're so wise, that goodness we have you BlueRaja. "Yer stupid" is no defense for predatory actions.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by saint4God]

You're volunteering to enter into a binding contract. Big difference. Enlistees are under no illusion that they can leave whenever they want. That part is explained. Where they might not get the whole story is what they can expect once they're in. Additionally, what may be true in certain fields in the military isn't necessarily true in others(i.e. there are some jobs where you have time to go to college, and others where you're in the field a lot. Another example might be OCS- a recruiter may tell an enlistee that they can go to Officer Candidate School. What they don't necessarily tell them is that whatever unit they go to has to approve that, etc....)

If you don't look out for yourself, nobody else is going to. It's one's personal responsibility to find out as much as they can before signing a contract whether it's for the military, a record deal, a business transaction, etc...

If you don't care to find out what the particulars are, then you can't expect not to be surprised at some point.

reply to post by BlueRaja

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I never said anything about anyone's intelligence. It's their situation, of being with little alternative opportunity for employment that is being exploited. That is what is reprehensible.
As to whether being in the military is honourable, I would suggest that that depends on the circumstances. There is no more honourable thing than to fight a legitimate fight for freedoms.
What honor is there in Iraq? Take the blinders off my friend. Step back from the trees and try and see the forest for what it is. A great big sham! A total fraud. Is it honor or shame to kill people, without just cause?

Unless you're a pilot, or in Air Force Special Operations, you're not going to be killing anybody. In fact even in the Army and USMC, unless you're in a combat arms unit, there's an extremely low likelihood that you'll be killing anybody.

Unless something is in writing, it may as well have never been said. Those are just the facts of life. Does it suck?- yes, and then you get over it. More often than not it's not a matter of telling deliberate falsehoods(though I'm sure that has occurred), but not telling the whole story.