Israel and the US created the conditions for Hamas to be elected, then contributed to their radicalisation due to the conditions, if we can call that conditions that deteriorated after Hamas was elected.

Israel can go f*/k itself for creating his own problems and killing hundreds of human beings at the same time. They are no better than the nazis putting jews in closed ghettos.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The Palestinians are under the complete control of a Terrorist organization

It's quite the reverse, the civilian Palestinian populace is under the control of Hamas, in effect, a condition of martial law

The people are almost entireley dependant on the Hamas organisation infrastructure for basic supplies and maintainance of any semblance of law and order.

To quote a line from 'V for Vendatta'..

"..what always happens when people without guns confront those who do have them.”

Yes I can second that Masonwatcher is NOT a jew-hater

Zionism is the world's collective problem.

Originally posted by citizen smith

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The Palestinians are under the complete control of a Terrorist organization

It's quite the reverse, the civilian Palestinian populace is under the control of Hamas, in effect, a condition of martial law

Since Hamas is a Terrorist organization, we are saying the same thing. I will never accept Hamas as anything other than what its actions prove it is. I think perhaps you misunderstood part of my post?

Last night I watched a tape of a Muslim woman in Florida protesting for Palestine telling the Jews to go "back to the ovens". Not Israel but the "Jews". This is getting out of hand. The world is being drug backwards in time.

If I'm wrong about Masonwatcher I apologize. If you look at the threads he has started honestly, it would be hard to come to any other conclusion. I find no condemnation whatsoever of the Terrorists acts against the Jews and nothing but anti-Zionist rhetoric that appears to be leveled at all Jews. The same thing we hear from all the Anti-Semites and eerily similar to the things spewed forth by Hitler and the Nazi's. Different time but same words.

My position is that the Jews in general and the Palestinians in general are innocent bystanders in this watching the evil in both their systems play out. As is the case in many places in the world, the evil is in the leadership and not in the populace. This nonsense about 80% of all Jews being Zionists is pure hate spread by the worst sort of Bigots.

My business partner, a Jewish person, had to pull his kid out of a private school in France because his life was in danger from a gang of Muslims in the same private school. How sad is that? They have nothing to do with the goings on in the Middle East. These monsters in this gang are from wealthy, well educated families. No wonder the Jews are scared right now. How could you not draw a parallel between this and the Nazi's?

How many times does Hamas have to openly state their goal of the destruction of all Jews before people believe them and stop defending them? Has the whole world gone retarded? Yes, help the innocent Palestinians, but to hell with the Terrorists like Hamas among them.

If a cease fire was indeed broken by Israel, it's probably because Hamas was taking that time to re-group and re-arm.

Why allow them to?

Both sides continue to practice terrorism to achieve their goals.
(I'll define terrorism as the targeting of civilians to achieve a political agenda)

Palestinians fire rockets targeting civilian centers, Israel attacks civilian targets in addition to military ones with little apparent regard to collateral damage (regardless of some, likely true claims of use of human shields)

Neither is "right" in their actions. Both should be condemned.

Personally (and speaking as a member, NOT staff)...I think you gotta be nuts for taking on Israel. I mean, they're pretty much known for the ability to carry a grudge for ages, and they retaliate in a massive ratio with little regard to what the world thinks or says...i.e. they've killed about 10 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli killed in this current action.

The Palestinians could have had about 90% of their demands, and an independent state, years ago....but they steadfastly cling to demands of having Jerusalem. Guess what...won't happen. The Israelis will turn Gaza into a giant field of rubble before doing so... Not saying it's right...it isn't, but it is what it is...and a reality check would go a long way in resolving this age-old problem.

Advice to both:

Live in peace like a lot of us do in the modern world...and forget all the idealism crap. Until that happens...the cycle of strike and strike back will continue...indefinitely, as it has since Israel's inception....

Originally posted by Founding
Wikipedia is very reliable source..

Dude, Wikipedia is one of the least reliable sources of information in
existence. Wikipedia is the largest spreader of misinformation in the
history of the internet. It's nothing but a propaganda tool for those who
have the manpower and know-how on using it to further their goals.

Originally posted by Gazrok
i.e. they've killed about 10 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli killed in this current action.

In 7 years, Hamas caused 22 casualties with their puny home made rockets.
Using that as an excuse, Israel has murdered over 700 innocent palestine
people in the last 13 days only. Women, children, babies.. they're targeting
schools, mosques, hospitals, weddings, funerals, school busses, orphanages..

And the US is supporting them on every step of the way.

I barely got words for it.

[edit on (8/1/09) by Wehali]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
One need only go through your posts to understand you. The war is only a convenient excuse to ply your stock and trade which is the dissemination of hate. You whitewash your hatred of all Jews by convincing yourself that all Jews are Zionists to defend your untenable position.

Thanks for being the perfect example of what has been discussed lately. If people cannot question a certain fact, they throw in the anti-Semite, Nazi or Zionist hater card in... Very very pathetic.

Whether you think Israel's action was legit or not, it is factual that they violated the truce.

So next time just refrain from doing so okay?

In all fairness, HAMAS militants are using such places as hideouts...but that still doesn't warrant the blatant disregard for civilian casualties the Israeli military is showing...

Either way, it's just going to stir more resentment, and ensure the conflict goes on, and on, and on......

What Israel is doing isn't a solution, or an act of protection...it's simple retribution, and in heaping portions....which is hardly out of character...

Both sides continue to share the responsibility for the continued violence, and eventually one side will have to accept some terms to end the fighting. Problem is, the obvious losing side would rather fight to the death than settle for a Palestinian state without Jerusalem, so it's going to go on either indefinitely, or until Israel gets fed up and simply goes on their own genocide run....(which if that happens, then the whole Middle East pretty much joins the party....and gangbangs Israel, and sparks WWIII).... c'est la vie....

Originally posted by Gazrok
In all fairness, HAMAS militants are using such places as hideouts...but that still doesn't warrant the blatant disregard for civilian casualties the Israeli military is showing...

They use such places to smuggle weapons through... and civilians for smuggling food and medicines. However, that's not the point, the point is that Israel violated the truce. You can find their action rightful or not, the fact remains that they did. Personally, I find it so weak to attack someone then with anti-Semite crap, etc.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Mdv2]

Semantics really...there's been no real "truce" or "cease-fire" in that region for many, many years...so to say one side or the other "broke" such an agreement....doesn't really matter...both have long been "wrong" in what they've done...

The blatant disregard for civilian casualties upsets me far more than who blinked first...

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you personally think it is wrong and evil to hate someone simply because they are born to a Jewish family? Do you condone shooting missiles indiscriminately into residential neighborhoods knowing full well the targets are innocent non-combatants?

Do you personally think it is wrong and evil to hate someone simply because they are born to a Muslim family? Do you condone shooting missiles indiscriminately into residential neighborhoods knowing full well the targets are innocent non-combatants?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I pray for them all, whether Palestinian or Jew.

So, you don't pray for any Christians, Athiests or Muslims in Israel? Just the Jews?