Question on OT Law, body piercing, tattoos and homosexuality

Also from the same chapter:

You mean you have carrots and corn in the same garden? You better pray about that.


That Polyester blend shirt you're wearing is a ticket to hell.


Dang it! I shaved this morning and trimmed my sideburns. That's one demerit.

Many of the Old Testament laws are there for health and sanitary reasons while others were to help distinguish the Jews as seperate people. For instance the law about not eating pork and shrimp would be good if you weren't always able to cook your food well. You could get trichinosis or hepatitis from these foods which could kill you. There are verses about crop planting and rotation. Relatives you can or can not marry.

Back to the tattoo, I doubt that God wants us to be covered in tattoos, but is this an actual sin? I sort of doubt it, but if it were I'd lean towards this being a verse that indicates that we should make marks on our skin for the dead. I don't think this verse prohibits cutting your skin or getting tattoos. Just don't do it as some memorial for the dead. I'm guessing that this in some reference to a custom people had at that time. If you're in doubt then don't get a tattoo.

Homosexuality I don't believe can be put into the same category.


It's not written that a tattoo is an abomination or that you should be put to death for getting a tattoo, however homosexuality seems to be a serious offense that deserves capital punishment.

Take what you want from that.

- So easy to say for someone born heterosexual.

Sex between two people in a committed relationship who love each other is not being like a beast or "simply working off desires," no matter what the sex of the lovers. I'm sure you have experienced sex with your husband as an uplifting experience of giving and sharing love. Why do you assume that homosexual sex must be just an animalistic release?

Love between two of the same sex can be as deep, tender and long-lasting as love between two of the opposite sex.

reply to post by saint4God

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Thank you for your sincere input, I do value your opinion. I just felt like you were attacking the premise of my post rather than providing any insight.

Georgia, U.S.
Some churches to this day don't like women wearing pants at church.

I can tell you, Hardly ANY women had tattoos around where I live!
Of course, the 80's started the piercings and some teenagers did it.
I didn't go to church, so I don't know if they wore them in church, but, still tattoos were a no-no.

reply to post by greeneyedleo

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A perfect answer for someone who feels unsure about her footing in life, maybe, you are the one who is judging you. I don't. Like you said it is your body, but it is also the Lord's Temple. And no matter how hard you try to run from that fact, it will always be there. Some things you just can not hide, no matter how many tattoos you get.


Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by dbates

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I see your point, and I think context is very important.

You could easily say that Leviticus 19:28 only says not to get piercings and tattoos if they are for the dead.

Continue on to Leviticus 20 where it covers a great number of other laws that should ALSO be taken in the applied context.

For instance verse 9:
‘For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him.

If homosexuality is indeed still to be considered a sin according the OT law then anyone who has cursed his parents should also be put to death.

My point is this...Christians can't pick and choose. Either follow the WHOLE law or NONE of it!

You started out sounding like you agreed with my point, but then did the classic "homosexuality is different...It's a serious sin". Why does that happen?
According to Lev. 20 cursing your parents deserves death also!

Just to add my own .02 and another Christian opinion to the mix, I also believe that the whole tattoo and skin marking thing were referring to some memorial of the dead. I myself have a couple of tattoos and plan to get another one soon. The people in my church do not (as far as I know) judge me for my appearance and if they did, I would pray for their forgiveness.
From what I have studied, regardless of how people and religions want to think, there is no difference at all between any sin. Having a lusty thought about your wife's best friend is just as sinful as slaughtering a school full of children. We are the ones who want to make some sins more sinful than others - but I would point out that from my studies (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) the sin most often mentioned by Jesus is judging others. I'm just sayin'.
As for the homosexuality question, Biblically all sex outside of a man-woman marriage is sin. So my having premarital sex with women is no less sinful than homosexual sex. Sodom and Gomorrah were destryed for many different reasons, not just because of gay sex. I will not judge another person for whom they are coupled with, but neither can I go on a gay pride march to support you. I will still be your friend and hang out with you though regardless of what some "Christians" think. Jesus himself shunned the church and hung out with "sinners" did he not?
=Begin rant=
One last thing for good measure. I disagree with most Christians on the whole "going to hell" thing. When you study the Bible, both old and new testament, every word translated into "hell" in the original language meant "grave" or something other than an eternal burning hell. The Hebrew "Sheol", and the Greek "Hades" both are properly translated as "the grave". As in literally where your dead body is."Gehenna" which is the Grecian translation of the Hebrew word for "Valley of Hinnom" was an actual place where they threw out the trash and sewage. This place was kept burning and brimstone was added to it to keep the fires going so all would be consumed in it. When this word was translated into hell, usually as in someone deserving hell, it was meant as a reference to the practice at the time of certain heinous criminals who were put to death and were not afforded a proper burial. Their body was cast into this "Gehenna" to be completely consumed by fire as an additional indignity after their execution. The greek word "Tartaroo" is used once in the new testament and translated as hell in 2 Peter 2:4 "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;". Tartaroo is translated as "cast them down to hell" here. Although Tartaroo seems to be a form of the Greek "tartarus" for dark abyss or prison, the context here implies an act instead of a place. The fall of the angels from honor to dishonor.
=end of rant=
Well, gotta get back to work.

Well, see, this is the problem with trying to get interpretations through the eyes of the christianized world.

Listen.. basically all of this just means that if you act like a beast (meaning you act on desire aka instict aka for self) rather than using the special gift that was given to seperate yourself from the animal world, then you will die like a beast and not a man. Acting on instinct (desires) like an animal defeats the purpose you were designed for and thus, you will die a physical death and there will be nothing more... just like an animal does.

This is what people misunderstand about the Jewish people calling others beasts (I don't... I rather just tell you what the meaning is). It is not meant as an insult or as a condemnation... it just means that one is living like an animal.... they are living purely for self... that is the law of the animals. The law of man uses rationality. The law of G.d uses rationality based on understanding. *shrugs*

One thing to keep in mind when discussing all verses related to sexual activity is that at the time those laws were put into place, it was one tribe against another and every tribe needed as many children as they could get in order to have a large army. By the time that reason was no longer as valid, we had large religious institutions with huge buildings to support and/or many members of the clergy class, and the easiest way to bring new people (and therefore, more support) into the church was to embrace the verses that encourage procreation, and discourage sex outside of procreation. Homosexuality was seen as an "abomination" because there was zero chance it would create new soldiers/tithers (by the way, the biggest lies preached in churches are in regard to the way they mangle the history and intent behind tithing, to turn it into a divine mandate to support the aforementioned buildings and clergy class, but that's another subject), while adultery tended to be winked at more often because in the end it still resulted in the birth of children, who in many cases would still wind up in the church. When you come right down to it, those verses have never been as much about morality as they are about money and power, and perpetuation of the tribe/church, although I will admit they come in handy for those who are simply disgusted by the way someone else chooses to live.

If churchgoers would stop letting preachers jump all around the Bible from verse to verse, and instead require them to read verses in context and then consider to whom those verses were written, by whom they were written, and the circumstances of the time that might inspire such writings - oh, and insist on a complete and accurate translation (which the KJV is NOT, if only because of its age and the limited availability of original sources) - there would be a lot less misuse of the scriptures in this way.

But of course you're right here. There are no levels of sin.

What I was implying is that some of these laws in the O.T. were civil guidelines much like a speed limit sign. We have the same concept today. There are misdemeanors and there are felony crimes. I think the actual laws that outlined an actual sin are intuitive. You don't really believe it's a sin to eat bacon or shrimp do you? What about cooking fish and steak in the same oven. Yes, there are regulations against that in the O.T. as well.

reply to post by archetype_one

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Just a small bit of scholarly information. Very few secular scholars believe that Leviticus was authored by Moses, but that rather it was written by the priests who tacked Moses' name on to it to lend themselves authority.

If this is the case, God did not say those things. One thing I always like to point out is that there is nothing whatsoever about homosexuality in the ten commandments, and seeing as how God is perfect, if that issue had meant so much to him one would think he would have included it there.

Jesus also is silent on it. So God, and the son of God, (for Christians) did not think highly enough of the issue to preach or leave commandments about it. The priests did. And, still do. It seems much more troublesome to the religious humans than it is for God.

en.wikipedia.org...



And, if this source is to be believed these things were addresses to the Jews, not to everyone. (Emphasis mine in the text quoted)

Well said . As I'd mentioned in another thread, if only non-sinners were allowed to attend church, the building would be empty. We're all in the same boat, but when you have the choice to be rescued you have that decision to take it or leave it before the rescuer sets sail.



As tempting as it is, I don't want to deviate the thread from the topic, please feel free to U2U me and I can quote the many verses that describe hell as a place of torment, eternal fire, burning and gnashing of teeth, etc.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by archetype_one

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Yes i think you can pike and choose what is ok for you when reading the bible.
Because it is designed this way…hence multiple fraction in the same religion.
The bible like many other similar books is based on materialistic religious belief. They are full of things you should do and don’t do…doesn’t any one find this superior.
It is not a sin to be homosexual, it is not a sin to have tattoo. It is part of your humanity to find what is right for your self, be what you want and in making mistake you hopefully learn from it.

kacou

PLEASE, Why would God care if you tattooed your skin or got earrings, Your body is gonna rot anyway! If there is a heaven or hell or whatever, You think you will be in that body there? Man wrote this book to enslave others and have done a real good job of it. No other thing on this planet divides more people than religion. Not race, sex, sexual orientation. So what about getting your ears pierced. I see all women do that. even the ones in church, Guess there all going to hell.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

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great post.. but u forgot that the word abomination was also a mistranslation i believe the original word actually translates to untraditional.. and as far as the op.. imho u'r ex-brother in-law should check himself.. hes using the typical pick and chose that seems to permiate christianity.. what i like to call the sister bertha beter than u syndrome..

reply to post by saint4God

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You are saved from sin and death!

You are required to live a holy life (free from sinning). Should you sin you should repent and not do it again. You should strive for sanctification

I would start off by saying that the people who call themselves Christians, but don't live like are not Christian.

A follower of Jesus should live like it.

Following the OT law does not save a person. The way to salvation is through the Lord Jesus.

Jesus if the fulfillment of the OT and his death and resurrection mark the new covenant.

I am a Christian and do not have any piercings, tattoos, and I believe homosexuality is a sin and is a chosen lifestyle (not something you are born with) ..... all people are born into sin.

Please read what the NT has to say about piercings, tattoos, and homosexuality and then post again with your findings.

Just for interests sake, the original text used for abomination...

תּעבה תּועבה
tô‛êbah tô‛êbah
to-ay-baw', to-ay-baw'
Feminine active participle of properly something disgusting (morally), that is, (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol: - abominable (custom, thing), abomination.